[X] My Assistant

[ravensmuse]

...the Borg aren't brains-in-jars. They're heavily augmented metahumans under control of a central intelligence.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

...the Borg aren't brains-in-jars. They're heavily augmented metahumans under control of a central intelligence.

Indeed...

Keep the Faith

[AlienStoneDog]

...the Borg aren't brains-in-jars. They're heavily augmented metahumans under control of a central intelligence.

I can't believe I didn't think of that.

There could be a good story around that for shadowrun actually. I mean, jumping into what you think is a empty cyborg shell - and finding out that it's part of a big collective conscious...

[Stahlseele]

one of deus mobile nodes?

[BookWyrm]

I have to agree that the Borg are NOT "brain-in-the-jar" types of cyborgs. They are 50%-90% partially converted cybernetically-grafted lifeforms, slaved to a hive-mind gestalt network.

As far as partial-cyborg examples, let's not forget the $6 million Man and the Bionic Woman.

[ravensmuse]

There's clearly three different sorts of "robots" within the Sixth World:

Heavily augmented metahumans (your sammies and such)
Drones (otomos, other walkers)
Brains in Jars (cyborgs)

[LurkerOutThere]

Ok here's the problem with a GITS conversion. GITS actively glamorizes and highlights the cybernetically enhanced highlighting the things they can do that others simply can't and outside of a few inconsistancies (you can't tell me that built of the same materials the Major should be as stong as Bato, stronger then human certainly, but they've just got more room in his frame to put muscles). Shadowrun by comparison can't go three steps without reminding one that "OMG Cyber is horrible and passe and easily detectible and ONLY MAGIC is the true way to go." This started as a dystopian/game balance thing and has now just become this hoary overstatement. It's one of the few things I've really begun to despise about the setting, I really think the essence cap should go away at delta-grade not just be reduced down, but that's just me.

Additionally building a character based on the majors skill set alone would be a fools errand as she pretty much has any skill the team ever needs, it raises the question a lot of tiems of why the rest of them are even there at all, just send the major to do it.

[Sengir]

I'm hard pressed to come up with any pop-culture or rpg cyborg who is more than a brain in a jar. Metallo, Robotman, Robocop, "the Man Who Bit His Tongue", Rifts' Borgs, and CP2020 full conversions are brains-in-a-jar.

Off the top of my head, the police drones from Redemption Ark or the Dreadnoughts from 40k would be similar to what I was thinking about...a stripped-down human body stored inside his life support unit, which is then installed in a vehicle body.


@Lurker: Just imagine a high initiate with MBW 3 and you know why essence-free deltaware is a BAD idea (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[kigmatzomat]

Robocop may not have been a full brain in a jar but he was a darned close prototype. IIRC, he had maybe one lung, a small portion of his digestive tract (including the mouth) and his brain. I don't think he had a bone skull anymore given the facial distortion and the fact he didn't need facial armor. There's no way he had a working bone skeleton with those heavy arms and the lifting he did.

Robocop 2/Cain was a full brain-in-a-jar. I believe the line was:"Remove the brain and prep it for transplant."

The borg aren't cyborg people, they're biodrones controlled by an AI. But the Borg Queen was a detachable head with a touch of nonstructural upperbody meat so she was pretty much a brain in a jar too.

I dunno about deathshead, being a 'murican.

I think the real question is when do you go from "having cyber" to "being a cyborg"? Imo when you're down to a brain and a couple pounds of "life support" meat that you "become" a cyborg.

[kigmatzomat]

Off the top of my head, the police drones from Redemption Ark or the Dreadnoughts from 40k would be similar to what I was thinking about.

Is it bad that I have no idea what either of those are?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Is it bad that I have no idea what either of those are?

You would not be the only one...

Keep the Faith

[hobgoblin]

you can't tell me that built of the same materials the Major should be as stong as Bato, stronger then human certainly, but they've just got more room in his frame to put muscles

iirc, bato jokes about this in both comic and sac, and in both instances the major basically makes him knock himself out...

[AngelisStorm]

iirc, bato jokes about this in both comic and sac, and in both instances the major basically makes him knock himself out...

Hacking cyberlimbs ftw. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Anyway, on the subject, doesn't Bato (as mentioned above) hassle the Major about -not- getting a stronger body (like his)?

[LurkerOutThere]

Maybe i got that conversation wrong or had a bad translation of it at the time there was but i seemed to recall the implications were the major was roughly ont he same level and bato was teasing her for basically never acting feminine, althlouth like i said perhaps bad translation, the first time I saw that ep it was a less then legal copy.

[kigmatzomat]

In the english GitS:SAC Batou says something along the line of "why don't you switch to a larger body for some real strength?" The Major asks him if he'd like to spar, which he declines.

In the Laughing Man episode where she's switching out of a damaged body, there's a discussion that the Major's body is an older design that had been customized. Which is like Kuze, who's PKF body was "end of life" but which was sufficient to escape Section 9's clutches multiple times. There were repeated comments about "mastering the operation of {their} prosthetic body" indicating there is some learning curve that most people don't take to the max.

Would it make a difference if "Pilot:Humanoid" was instead "Cyborg Athletics"? I mean, isn't it the same? Running, jumping, fine control of manipulators, isn't it a case of "to-may-to to-mah-to"?

[AlienStoneDog]

Ok here's the problem with a GITS conversion. GITS actively glamorizes and highlights the cybernetically enhanced highlighting the things they can do that others simply can't and outside of a few inconsistancies (you can't tell me that built of the same materials the Major should be as stong as Bato, stronger then human certainly, but they've just got more room in his frame to put muscles). Shadowrun by comparison can't go three steps without reminding one that "OMG Cyber is horrible and passe and easily detectible and ONLY MAGIC is the true way to go." This started as a dystopian/game balance thing and has now just become this hoary overstatement. It's one of the few things I've really begun to despise about the setting, I really think the essence cap should go away at delta-grade not just be reduced down, but that's just me.

Additionally building a character based on the majors skill set alone would be a fools errand as she pretty much has any skill the team ever needs, it raises the question a lot of tiems of why the rest of them are even there at all, just send the major to do it.

I'm not looking for a like for like translation though.

This is what I'm looking for:

Metahuman or perhaps AI PC's of different abilities that can rig a completely human looking body. The rigged body doesn't have to be the uber soldier of doom that the major is, just passably human with a variety of different skills depending on the PC.

I hope that makes sense.

As for the magic element, what I love about SR (and I must admit I am very new to it, only recently coming from World of Darkness/Feng Shui) is that it has many different aspects that you can focus on, combine, expand upon - or if you like, ignore altogether.

[Stahlseele]

Is it bad that I have no idea what either of those are?

The Dreadnaughts from WH40K are pretty much Life-Sustaining Coffins.
Armored, outfitted with Arms, Legs and Weapons. Only people who would die without constant life support are palced in one of those.
And in most cases, that's just th rest of them. Some Organs, the Spleen and the Brain, maybe some bones, not more.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Space_Marine_Dreadnought

[Sengir]

Is it bad that I have no idea what either of those are?

In case of the Revelation Space series yes, most definitely.

[this is a retranslation from the German edition, so the original text will be a bit different]

Zebra came back pushing a metal cylinder the size of a tea machine in front of her. Mirror-like polished and equipped with a great variety of tubes and machinery, it stood on a cushioned wheelchair like the one Antoiette used.
Clavain realized that the cylinder was swaying, as if something was inside and fighting for its freedom
[...]
"What you see here is the life support system of a Convent cutter. The pilot of such a cutter does not leave his ship during his whole term of service, sometimes not for many years. To save mass, all unnecessary body parts are surgically removed and kept at the Convent headquaters in cold storage. A pilot who can control a drone over neural interface has no need for limps. He does not need other things, either. So all these parts are removed, labeled and stored away."