Increasing Attributes Options

[Razor Wolf]

I'm planning on running some 4E for my group who are all hardened SR3 (or older) vets, and I need some opinions on the SR4A character improvement rules. Charging (desired rating) x 5 to increase an attribute seems like a pretty steep cost to me, and while I understand that upping Agility is the same as increasing most of the combat skills, since I have yet to build a 400 or 500 point character with a decent attribute spread, I'm afraid that keeping the cannon cost would just drain karma excessively. Am I just in SR3 high-power mode or does the high cost actually balance itself out long-term? Any thought or experiences would be appreciated.

[Muspellsheimr]

The Anniversary Karma costs & awards are fine. In comparison between SR4 & SR4A costs/awards, the advancement rate of Attributes remains approximately the same (slightly faster, if I remember correctly), while in comparison the advancement rate of everything else, particularly skills, is quite a bit faster.

This is a good thing, particularly because I felt the SR4 advancement rate was to slow initially, if smoother & more customizable than the horrid level-based systems.

[Ayeohx]

I'm planning on running some 4E for my group who are all hardened SR3 (or older) vets, and I need some opinions on the SR4A character improvement rules. Charging (desired rating) x 5 to increase an attribute seems like a pretty steep cost to me, and while I understand that upping Agility is the same as increasing most of the combat skills, since I have yet to build a 400 or 500 point character with a decent attribute spread, I'm afraid that keeping the cannon cost would just drain karma excessively. Am I just in SR3 high-power mode or does the high cost actually balance itself out long-term? Any thought or experiences would be appreciated.

Did stats do much else than limit skill maximums back in 3rd? Anyways, now days stats matter a heck of a lot. Up your Agility by one and several of your Sammies dice pools just increased. And an increase of 1 can be very significant depending on your groups love of min/maxing. My group doesn't min/max much so +1 DP to important skills is freakin awesome! x5 is actually quite fair.

Eidt: And really, you don't need another freakin house rule.

[Thanee]

Attributes were pretty important in the earlier editions as well.

But x5 is a reasonable cost, really.

Bye
Thanee

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Attributes were pretty important in the earlier editions as well.

But x5 is a reasonable cost, really.

Bye
Thanee

Agreed...

Keep the Faith

[Ghost in the Mac...]

For clarity: in SR4, the cost to raise an attribute is New Rating x3. It only jumps to x5 with SR4A.

[StealthSigma]

One thing I still haven't quite figured out is where the new attribute cost is pre or post racial adjustment/augments.

In other words, that troll that gets +4 body for being a troll, started with 8 body and has a suprathyroid gland for a body score of 9...

Would it cost 25 Karma, 45 Karma, or 50 Karma to raise his body by 1?

25 Karma (Before Racial Adjustment/Augments)
45 Karma (After Racial Adjustment/Before Augments)
50 Karma (After Racial Adjustment/After Augments)

[Ghost in the Mac...]

One thing I still haven't quite figured out is where the new attribute cost is pre or post racial adjustment/augments.

New attribute costs are based on your "natural" attribute -- racial adjustments are included, augmentation from cyber/bio are not.

[Dakka Dakka]

New attribute costs are based on your "natural" attribute -- racial adjustments are included, augmentation from cyber/bio are not.

Only adepts are screwed, since the Power Improved Physical Attribute is considered part of the natural attribute and costs more if it boosts the attribute beyond the natural maximum. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)

[Screaming Eagle]

Did stats do much else than limit skill maximums back in 3rd?

Pool calculations, cheaper skill advancement, target numbers for some of the opposed tests...

They were quite important, it was just a bit less "up front I get more dice" obvious.

[Medicineman]

Only adepts are screwed, since the Power Improved Physical Attribute is considered part of the natural attribute and costs more if it boosts the attribute beyond the natural maximum.
thats why the smart Adept goes to a Place with background count,switches his improve Attribute off,raises his natural Attributes and when he's finished He leaves the Backgroundarea and his improved Attribute kicks in
(by-the-Way I have not one Ki-Ad with an improved Attribute. DEX and STR are cheaper to get with Bioware !)

with a smart Dance
Medicienman

[Dakka Dakka]

As a GM I would not allow that kind of exploit. I would however have the adepts calculate their Karma costs just like anybody else with augmented attribute ratings.

Yup, Bioware is cheaper and if you really want to keep the adept pure and whole there is attribute boost.