Seeking Seattle runners…, Recruitment thread for a PbP game in Seattle, 2072 Options

[Karoline]

"As much as I like that kinda work with a broad, lets keep it professional. I don't want to get distracted. BTW good form, that may even bruise"

Careful what you wish for (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[BlueMax]

Careful what you wish for (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

See, thats exactly his problem. He has no clue what he should or would wish for outside of work.

Like so many people I know....

BlueMax

[Kerenshara]

OK, I am writing up the intro posts as we speak, but I need to ask the Decker types a question:

I would like to go with either:

[Skill+Attribute]<Cap Hits:Program RTG>

OR

[Skill+Program RTG]<Cap Hits:Attribute>

(For Technomancers, your Complex Forms are both Attribute AND Program Rating for these purposes)

Do those of you with Matrix capabilities have a preference? Or would you really prefer me to just run the Matrix RAW?

Most of the Matrix-centric characters are already weighted heavily towards mental stats, but I thought I'd ask. I've been having a running discussion in the main Shadowrun section of DS, but I'm going to leave this one up to you folks. Just keep in mind, whatever you pick, it applies to the Badguys equally, for better or for worse.

[adamu]

What...there's gonna be bad guys?

[BlueMax]

If I read that correctly, for TMs the two choices are equal. If true, I do not want to weigh in on something that only impacts bad guys and others.
And if I read it correctly, I don't have to change Orb.

BlueMax

[Kerenshara]

If I read that correctly, for TMs the two choices are equal. If true, I do not want to weigh in on something that only impacts bad guys and others.
And if I read it correctly, I don't have to change Orb.

BlueMax

After somewhat extensive debate elsewhere, I decided to make ONE aspect of life easier for our Virtuakinetic friends. After all, they have it hard in so many other ways, especially starting out. But it DOES affect your opposition BlueMax, so you might want to give it a LITTLE thought. *grin*

[Karoline]

What...there's gonna be bad guys?

No, she's just trying to scare us. Like stories of tax collectors or foreign countries, they aren't really real, they're just made up to scare us.

I've no matrix abilities at all, and so I'd personally prefer Skill + Program with max hits equal to logic.

Mostly because this benefits me rules wise (Easier to get a high rating program than it is to improve my logic).

So yeah, rewrote something here about 10 times, but my rambling finally made me decide that a more 'realistic' standpoint would be to have it be Skill + Logic with max hits equal to program.

How I came to this was: Imagine two people. Both have a skill of 3, but one is a genius working on an average program (6 logic, 3 program) and the other is an average guy with the latest and greatest software. Using Skill + Logic (max program) you get the smart person having an average of 3 hits, which maxes out his program. The normal person however gets an average of 2 hits, which shows that he isn't smart and/or skilled enough to make full use of all the extra bells and whistles, while the smart guy is pushing his program to the limits.

Think about how this compares to real life. I mean how many people use all the 50 billion functions built into MSWord? For most people notepad does just as good a job for basic things, and even when using word, you only make use of a handful of extra functions. So the difference between that rating 2 and rating 6 (Just as an example) mostly goes to waste for the average user. Similarly when writing a program, I can do almost as good a job using notepad as eclipse, even though one is vastly more sophisticated, yet I can do a better job on notepad than someone less skilled can using eclipse.

Anyway, just my 2 nuyen, or maybe a bit more. Hope that was all at least somewhat understandable. I wrote this in the browser thing, which is a rating 1, so I can only get so many hits (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Karoline]

After somewhat extensive debate elsewhere, I decided to make ONE aspect of life easier for our Virtuakinetic friends. After all, they have it hard in so many other ways, especially starting out. But it DOES affect your opposition BlueMax, so you might want to give it a LITTLE thought. *grin*

Yeah, in order to make the opponents weaker you want to go with the 'realistic' approach I outlined above. It is far easier for the bad guys to get a bunch of rating six programs than it is to get a bunch of super geniuses.

[BlueMax]

This may sound really stupid to the vast lot of ye but I don't care.

I prefer not to game my opponent only myself. Games become boring if I know too much about my opponents mechanics.

Example:
Most people when they play an MMO read a page describing a boss and his powers and go in with 1-3 predetermined tactics.
Whereas, I go in blind and *experience* things for myself. Often developing one of the three tactics but occasionally finding a new one.

So, I do give this thought but, the thought is about the wonder and the mystery.

Call me a helpless romantic or a fool, they both fit.

BlueMax

[Karoline]

How about a romantic fool? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Isn't there a song along those lines? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif)

[Generic_PC]

I'm sure that there is more than one.

[Karoline]

True

[Ol' Scratch]

Attribute+Skill (Limit: Program) gets my vote. Of the two options it makes the most sense and is the most consistent with the other rules.

[Kerenshara]

Thank you, everybody, for your support.

That is what I had essentially settled upon, and it was my original idea as presented in that other discussion thread.

I feel a lot better that people agree with me on the feel it will bring to the game; That's entirely the idea and it's heartening to have players who support me in that. You literally have no idea.

I know we'll probably run into a couple bumps in the road as part of that, but we'll see as we go along.

Incidentally, a Technomancer with Complex Form ( Stealth ) 7 will by definition be invisible to somebody with "conventional" programs, and that's just fine with me. They're SUPPOSED to be stealthy as drek. Mind you, if they start acting in an obvious fashion (like attacking), they're going to show up like anybody else. And if the Decker spends EDGe, they blow the cap off just like with any other skill roll.

I actually plan to "handwavium" a lot of the Matrix side of this, based on the "general" strength of your Decker/'Mancer. They're along, so that's enough for me. Now, when it comes to the EXCITING hacks, that's where the dice will come out.

*gets back to writing that opening*

[Embers]

Jordan isn't skilled at working with a commlink, thats why she has an agent program, to do that stuff for her, she sets it to a task, and it does it on its own. How would this rule affect that? Would it be Agent + Program rating in that case, or would it be Agent Rating + Agent Rating with a cap of the program rating?

[Karoline]

Jordan isn't skilled at working with a commlink, thats why she has an agent program, to do that stuff for her, she sets it to a task, and it does it on its own. How would this rule affect that? Would it be Agent + Program rating in that case, or would it be Agent Rating + Agent Rating with a cap of the program rating?

Given that it is usually System + Program, I'd imagine it would become System + Agent Rating capped by Program.

[Kerenshara]

Given that it is usually System + Program, I'd imagine it would become System + Agent Rating capped by Program.

Yes.

[JoelHalpern]

Obviously, this is tertiary for Mach.
However, he serves as a good example of what this does to the "average person". Mach has Logic 3, and conventional computer related skills (no hacking) of 2. He also has a couple of programs at rating 6.
(The cost for the programs is irrelevant, as they are common use programs.)
The difference is that with the approach we are using, he is rolling 5 dice against a cap of 6, vs rolling 8 dice against a cap of 3.

When all is said and done, I think the agreed result is believable.
Yours,
Joel / Mach

[Karoline]

Yeah, that's what I was saying earlier. Skill + Program is better for 'joe average' but Skill + Logic is more realistic, and somewhat better for a dedicated logic type, as well as allowing for people to be reasonable hackers without spending a lifetime's worth of nuyen on programs.

After all, hackers are good because they are smart and know what they are doing, not because they bought "Hack-you-good" from someone.

[Ol' Scratch]

It's not that it's simply more realistic, it's that it also adheres to the rest of the game a lot better. Everyone else has to roll Attribute + Skill, so why not hackers?

[Karoline]

It's not that it's simply more realistic, it's that it also adheres to the rest of the game a lot better. Everyone else has to roll Attribute + Skill, so why not hackers?

Because computers are totally different from anything else in the universe. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Trench]

Keren, the praetor is already the most powerful SMG in the game.

Ammo capacity 50
1 point free recoil compensation
electronic firing>> another point of recoil
retractable stock


Thats 3 points before you even start with mods and a gasvent. Why the extra armor piercing?

Also, adding 1 DV <to the assault rifle> takes a "mediocre" weapon and makes it head and shoulders above the rest.

<edit> Now i see the DV for the Praetor has been Reduced, making it mediocre.

[Generic_PC]

He took one DV off, actually. The new stats are 4P/-2.

Apparently, team 1 is done. I dunno what that means, but I thought I'd update. I can soak damage like... nobodies business. I have a Body of 9, Titanium Bone Lacing and 14 points of ballistic and 10 points of impact armour. On top of that, I'm dodging like crazy too...

[Kerenshara]

The Praetor doesn't actually have a collapsible stock; It's a bullpup configuration weapon. But it DOES include a built-in foregrip, and you can use a sling with it. It's based conceptually on the Fabrique Nationale Herstal P-90 Personal Defense Weapon. The light-weight round doesn't carry the mass of a heavy round, being a paltry 5.7mm in diameter; It DOES however move at between 2x and 2.5x the velocity of the equivalent "heavy" rounds, and combined with it's "rifle bullet"-like shape, it packs formidable penetration power. It's a whole new class of round (Heckler & Koch's MP-7 uses the same idea with it's 4.7mm bullet) that reflects the increasing incidence of heavy body armor. In one test I have seen, the 5.7x28mm round penetrated a Class III vest clean through the front and out the back at 100 meters. Fired from a 4" pistol-length (vice the 8-10" SMG barrel) the velocigty drops between 15% and 20%, but it's still better than twice the velocity of most pistol rounds. It also means the thing has a rediculously flat trajectory and consequently the two "pistols" that use it, while getting only a -1 AP instead of the SMG's -2, it gains the Heavy Pistol range table.

Why would somebody carry a light pistol then? Well, a couple reasons. First, you can have a subsonic round easier. (The Medium Pistol round loses the extra AP before applying the "Subsonic" template to the ammo.) Second, most of the "medium" pistols are going to be fairly expensive, and have higher availability. For a 'runner, that's not such an impediment, but for Average Joe, or Schmucky the Corporate Grunt, that's going to be important. After all, low-level guards exist to keep the honest people honest more than anything else, kind of like the locks on your car.

On another note, yes, we finally have a "real" old-style sammy. I can't say for sure it's going to be that important, but those of you who are veterans of the shadows know how quickly things can go to drek. The 'run (actually, to start off, it's "runS" plural) will have two separate teams. Based on the available talent and the target(s) in question, I have already broken up the "teams". The first team co-incidentally already has all their material into me. I may still tweak an item or two (re-doing all of your math is taking longer than anticipated) but most of them already have approval and have gotten their "incentives". As those of you who have worked closely with me (by IM usually), I'm fairly generous with the ... toys, but you should probably think what that means for your hoops down the line. *GM smile*

Anyhow, that's it for now. I have some PMs to compose and more math to do, and the text of the thread to finish. Work's not been cooperating in the least, but we'll see how tonight goes. Push comes to shove, I'm off tomorrow.

[BlueMax]

Anyone want to catch a Screamers game while we wait for the Johnson?