Marines in the sixth world?, Helping my friend with his character concept Options

[Lok1 :)]

My first session as a GM is this weekend and one of my players, a highschooler who's life's goal is to join the marines, wants to create a ex UCAS marine runner. My major quistions hear is if the marines still exist and if they do, do they function under UCAS sanction or someone else. Another issue is he wants his character to be a vertrion of some conflict, but I was hard pressed what conflicts the UCAS has been in the last twenty or so years. All I could come up with is that some of the marines stayed behind against orders and helped protect Calaforina against the Tir Tairngire and then later the Japs after they staked a claim to part of the sunny state.
If you have any advice, or setting info that would be great, my SR-fu at best mediocre.

[EKBT81]

Well, I see no reason not to have a UCAS Marine Corps, even if there is no explicit mention in the books.

The CAS have Marines (two expeditionary forces, SoNA p.67) , and I think the UCAS would like to maintain similar capabilities.

While I don't know any major conflict with UCAS participation, the UCAS are still a permanent member of the UN security council and might lend troops to UN missions if those match UCAS interests (or Ares interests).

[Lok1 :)]

Dose ARES or any other AAA maintain a military?

[the_real_elwood]

The AAA corps have extensive security forces, and very highly trained rapid reaction squads, but not really an actual military. Some of the Japanese corps have some naval ships, but those are there ostensibly to protect their shipping fleet. The closest you'd come to that is the Aztlan military, which flies the Aztlan colors but because Aztlan is pretty much the same thing as Aztechnology, may as well be an Aztechnology security force. But the kinds of operations that the corporations typically act in don't lend themselves well to the same type of military that a nation would maintain. Any nation that has a naval force will likely have a contingent of marines to perform water-borne operations.

[LurkerOutThere]

I see no reason the UCAS wouldn't continue to maintain and uphold the Marine tradition. If your player wanted to play a UCAS Marine they might be a veteran of the Chicago containment zone or the battles to retake the Renraku Arcology either of which could lead to a veteran and even jaded marine (ok there's redundancy) solider with some specialized know skills.

[Chrysalis]

Europe, Yucatan, Chicago, policing places in the UCAS. You don't need to go far to find places where marines could and would be deployed.

-Chrysalis

[flowswithdrek]

I would say almost any nation that is not landlocked and has a navy will have some kind of marine force. They are after all historically primarily navel borne forces (that probably rules out the Sioux nation).

Year of the Comet mentions Imperial Japanese Marines in the California Uber Alles section so marines in general are still about.

I would also say that there are any number of border skirmishes with the likes of the Sioux nation and CAS where UCAS Marines would have been involved. And the UCAS will still have their fingers in everyone’s global pies and there will be no end of trouble for a marine to get involved in. For example large scale hostage rescue or small island nations in need of regime change, like Granada In Real Life.

Semper Fi

[Lok1 :)]

Thanks for all the help, any idea what kind of specalized skills such a character would have? (And how to incorperate them into a run)

[EKBT81]

Thanks for all the help, any idea what kind of specalized skills such a character would have? (And how to incorperate them into a run)

As SR4 skills, I'd expect

Firearms skills (probably with a specialization for the issued service rifle)
Athletics Skill Group
Outdoors skills (Navigation, Survival)
First Aid
Dodge
Etiquette (specializing in military etiquette)
Perception

Other skills would vary with the specific MOS (Military Occupational Specialty). There's a lot of different things that need to be done in the Marine Corps. Some possibilities:

Demolitions
Gunnery
Heavy Weapons
Infiltration
Armorer
Leadership
Instruction
Industrial Mechanic
Automotive Mechanic

[LurkerOutThere]

A veteran of the bug hunts might have bug related know skills and be tracked down for such knowledge especially if someone in the shadows suspects the city has a bug problem and wants it dealt with quickly and quietly. High will power is a must as mental toughness might need to supsede physical. A veteran of renraku would have a smattering of tehcnical knowledge including rigger or hacking skills, might even be a latent technomancer.

[Caine Hazen]

Hehe, there was some evil evil talk elsewhere about this. I might have to dig out notes and repost some stuff (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I see no reason the UCAS wouldn't continue to maintain and uphold the Marine tradition. If your player wanted to play a UCAS Marine they might be a veteran of the Chicago containment zone or the battles to retake the Renraku Arcology either of which could lead to a veteran and even jaded marine (ok there's redundancy) solider with some specialized know skills.

Hey, We Marines are NOT Redundant...

Keep the Faith

[LurkerOutThere]

No but calling a marine jaded usually does verge on it, but that could be sample bias on my part.

[Kerenshara]

Here's my two centi-nuyen:

Your player seems to be interested in the tradition of The Corps as much as just being called a "marine". Consequently, you might want to encourage them to switch their nationality to the CAS; Virginia (Quantico, Norfolk), North Carolina (Camp Lejeune), and South Carolina (Parris Island) are all part of the CAS. Except for a few detachments in Maryland, Rhode Island and Dee Cee, there are NO USMC bases of note in the UCAS territories. So in terms of maintaining the traditions of The Corps, it's going to be a little tough to continue that in the UCAS. Also, the CAS has been going up against Aztlan in some nasty fighting for a while, and that's free material for veterant status. Come on, everybody LOVES to hate the Azzies.

Anyhow, that's my take. Hope that helped at least a bit.

[Stingray]

Here's my two centi-nuyen:

Your player seems to be interested in the tradition of The Corps as much as just being called a "marine". Consequently, you might want to encourage them to switch their nationality to the CAS; Virginia (Quantico, Norfolk), North Carolina (Camp Lejeune), and South Carolina (Parris Island) are all part of the CAS. Except for a few detachments in Maryland, Rhode Island and Dee Cee, there are NO USMC bases of note in the UCAS territories. So in terms of maintaining the traditions of The Corps, it's going to be a little tough to continue that in the UCAS. Also, the CAS has been going up against Aztlan in some nasty fighting for a while, and that's free material for veterant status. Come on, everybody LOVES to hate the Azzies.

Anyhow, that's my take. Hope that helped at least a bit.

..Do i remember wrong but does not Canadians have Marine corps too?..if so..
French speaking hard-core ex-UCAS Marine vet..

[DWC]

Canada diverged from the British Empire's military traditions by not establishing a Royal Canadian Marine Corps. I believe in the last few years, it has created a few brigades of amphibious operations personnel, but nothing on the scale of the USMC or the Royal Marines.

[Warlordtheft]

Here's my two centi-nuyen:

Your player seems to be interested in the tradition of The Corps as much as just being called a "marine". Consequently, you might want to encourage them to switch their nationality to the CAS; Virginia (Quantico, Norfolk), North Carolina (Camp Lejeune), and South Carolina (Parris Island) are all part of the CAS. Except for a few detachments in Maryland, Rhode Island and Dee Cee, there are NO USMC bases of note in the UCAS territories. So in terms of maintaining the traditions of The Corps, it's going to be a little tough to continue that in the UCAS. Also, the CAS has been going up against Aztlan in some nasty fighting for a while, and that's free material for veterant status. Come on, everybody LOVES to hate the Azzies.

Anyhow, that's my take. Hope that helped at least a bit.

Maybe he was so patriotic that he left to fight the Azzies in the Yucatan (as an advisor to the rebels--unaffiliated to avoid any diplomatic issues). This also may explain how he aquired most of his gear. In which case I would suggest the following skill set (with minimums)

Firearms (4-minimum)
Dodge (3)
Ettiquette 2 (+2 Military Specialization)
Athletics Skill Group (1)
Infiltration (3)
Navigation (2)
Survival (2)
First Aid (2)
Perception (3)
Heavy Weapons (4)
Demolitions (4)
Instruction (3)
Tactics (3) (+2 Small Unit)
Armorer B/R (3)

Lanuages:
English N
Spanish 4 (Azantlaner dialect +2)

Knowledge Skills
Parazoology:3
Marine Corp History:2
CAS History: 2
Para Fauna: 2
Military Procedures:3
Military Units: 3
Spirits: 2

[Stingray]

Maybe he was so patriotic that he left to fight the Azzies in the Yucatan (as an advisor to the rebels--unaffiliated to avoid any diplomatic issues). This also may explain how he aquired most of his gear. In which case I would suggest the following skill set (with minimums)

Firearms (4-minimum)
Dodge (3)
Ettiquette 2 (+2 Military Specialization)
Athletics Skill Group (1)
Infiltration (3)
Navigation (2)
Survival (2)
First Aid (2)
Perception (3)
Heavy Weapons (4)
Demolitions (4)
Instruction (3)
Tactics (3) (+2 Small Unit)
Armorer B/R (3)

Lanuages:
English N
Spanish 4 (Azantlaner dialect +2)

Knowledge Skills
Parazoology:3
Marine Corp History:2
CAS History: 2
Para Fauna: 2
Military Procedures:3
Military Units: 3
Spirits: 2

Leadership have tactic specialization as active skill..

[Lok1 :)]

Wow thats almost exatctly the skill set I suggest to him, only I swiched demolitions for diveing (Military)

[Kerenshara]

Marines have diving? Or demolition? Those are specialties. You'd only probably have parachuting if they were Force Recon or the equivalent. (We're talking USMC here, not Roual Marines... whose proper designation should probably be Royal Marine Commandos IIRC.)

Basic Training:
Automatics 3 (Assault Rifles)
Pistols 2
Close Combat 2
First Aid 1
Navigation 1
Survival 1
Athletics 2
Leadership 1
Etiquette 1
Infiltration 1
Disguise 1
Thrown Weapons 2
Dodge 2 (Ranged Combat)
Perception 1

Knowledge - Military Equipment 2
Lingo - Military Jargon 2
Knowledge - Military Protocol 2
Knowledge - Marine Corps History & Traditions 2

[Lok1 :)]

Hmm, I'll let him chose his specialistation. With all the characters for this game I did some talking to them pregame, made up the basic char, and then I'm going to help fine-tune it with them an hour befor the session. I'll let him see this thread to see your suggestions as well. Also any idea what kind of chrome and squishy ware they would likely have.

[Kerenshara]

Hmm, I'll let him chose his specialistation. With all the characters for this game I did some talking to them pregame, made up the basic char, and then I'm going to help fine-tune it with them an hour befor the session. I'll let him see this thread to see your suggestions as well. Also any idea what kind of chrome and squishy ware they would likely have.

Well, that depends on how you view The Marine Corps, frankly.

Advantages / Disadvantages:

Bioware
Advantages:

• Self-repairing
• Psychologically and physiologically light on the trooper
• "Naturally" ESSense friendly
• Many are non-surgical per old fluff ("drink this while I stab you with these three hypos")
• Rapid recovery from implantation

Disadvantages:

• Expensive
• May require more lead-time prior to implantation for culturing/customization.

Cyberware
Advantages:

• Much less expensive
• Often much more durable than equivalent flesh
• Can achieve performance and capabilities impossible with flesh
• Can be more readily standardized than many Bioware applications

Disadvantages:

• Needs for maintenance, often in the field
• Higher physiological and psychological toll
• Requies repair and replacemtne periodically
• Longer recovery time post-implantation

Try to keep in mind that the military of the future is going to be very interested in a few key areas:

• C³I (Command, Control, Communications & Intelligence) - Comlink^c w/ Sim Module, possibly a Data Jack^c
• C³I - Orientation System^c - Minimize Blue-on-Blue friendly-fire incidents
• C³I - Biomonitor^c - ensure rapid response to injury and triage for Medevac
• Training - see above Comlink^c w/ Sim Module
• Endurance - more strength = less effort = more endurance - Muscle Toner^b 2 and Muscle Augmentation^b 2
• Endurance - Synthecardium is cheap and easy, and boosts the soldier's overall athletic performance. >>Edited in, since I forgot it<<
• Endurance - Sleep Regular^b extends troops useful up-time as well as making "naps" more effecient
• Endurance - Extended Volume^b is cheap and easy, helps with running and swimming, both important to a Marine.
• Situational Awareness - Cybereyes^c with vision enhancements would probably be offered.
• Situational Awareness - Attention Coprocessor^c 3 helps aid processing information-age warfare data-overload
• Speed - IP Boosters would probably not be offered except to specialized groups
• Skill - Skillwires are NOT a substitute for actual training and intuition and would be frowned on
• Resiliency - Orthoskin^b w/ Smart Insulation^b to make hot and cold less dangerous + damage resistance. (Plus, this is one of those "drink this while I stick you!" things so it's EASY)

All of the above still comes in under 125,000¥ and all are quick recovery times. There are piles of extra gear that would go to specialized units, but since "Every Marine is a Rifleman", making sure everybody is survivable and can endure while processing the information flow of the late 21st Century battlefield would be a very high priority.

You're welcome to disagree, of course, but looking at it as the military does, those make the most sense. The first things you could drop would probably be the Orthoskin due to cost and the cybereyes due to the higher recovery time and acclimation period. The rest is simple and easy to adjust to and would act as significant force multipliers, a critical element in a force as chronically over-worked and under-manned / under-equipped as the USMC has historically been.

[DWC]

I would think bone density augmentation would be one of the biggest items for military personnel, because it does so much to reduce the risk of non-combat casualties.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Well, that depends on how you view The Marine Corps, frankly.

Advantages / Disadvantages:

Bioware
Advantages:

• Self-repairing
• Psychologically and physiologically light on the trooper
• "Naturally" ESSense friendly
• Many are non-surgical per old fluff ("drink this while I stab you with these three hypos")
• Rapid recovery from implantation

Disadvantages:

• Expensive
• May require more lead-time prior to implantation for culturing/customization.

Cyberware
Advantages:

• Much less expensive
• Often much more durable than equivalent flesh
• Can achieve performance and capabilities impossible with flesh
• Can be more readily standardized than many Bioware applications

Disadvantages:

• Needs for maintenance, often in the field
• Higher physiological and psychological toll
• Requies repair and replacemtne periodically
• Longer recovery time post-implantation

Try to keep in mind that the military of the future is going to be very interested in a few key areas:

• C³I (Command, Control, Communications & Intelligence) - Comlink^c w/ Sim Module, possibly a Data Jack^c
• C³I - Orientation System^c - Minimize Blue-on-Blue friendly-fire incidents
• C³I - Biomonitor^c - ensure rapid response to injury and triage for Medevac
• Training - see above Comlink^c w/ Sim Module
• Endurance - more strength = less effort = more endurance - Muscle Toner^b 2 and Muscle Augmentation^b 2
• Endurance - Sleep Regular^b extends troops useful up-time as well as making "naps" more effecient
• Endurance - Extended Volume^b is cheap and easy, helps with running and swimming, both important to a Marine.
• Situational Awareness - Cybereyes^c with vision enhancements would probably be offered.
• Situational Awareness - Attention Coprocessor^c 3 helps aid processing information-age warfare data-overload
• Speed - IP Boosters would probably not be offered except to specialized groups
• Skill - Skillwires are NOT a substitute for actual training and intuition and would be frowned on
• Resiliency - Orthoskin^b w/ Smart Insulation^b to make hot and cold less dangerous + damage resistance. (Plus, this is one of those "drink this while I stick you!" things so it's EASY)

All of the above still comes in under 125,000¥ and all are quick recovery times. There are piles of extra gear that would go to specialized units, but since "Every Marine is a Rifleman", making sure everybody is survivable and can endure while processing the information flow of the late 21st Century battlefield would be a very high priority.

You're welcome to disagree, of course, but looking at it as the military does, those make the most sense. The first things you could drop would probably be the Orthoskin due to cost and the cybereyes due to the higher recovery time and acclimation period. The rest is simple and easy to adjust to and would act as significant force multipliers, a critical element in a force as chronically over-worked and under-manned / under-equipped as the USMC has historically been.

Well Said Kerenshara

Keep the Faith

[Kerenshara]

I would think bone density augmentation would be one of the biggest items for military personnel, because it does so much to reduce the risk of non-combat casualties.

I inteionally omitted BDA because the fluff expressly depicts it as "long and painful" to get put in, which is going to discourage things a great deal. Remember, I'm talking about "standard" suites of 'ware. BDA would be a viable option for further enhancement. (In fact, probably standard for Force Recon for exactly the reasons you cite, being that they're "airborne" but that would apply to ANY "airborne" unit.)

I was intentionally focusing on things that could be done relatively quickly, easily and more-or-less painlessly for the soldier. Militarily speaking, however, I would think that for the price of Bone Density Augmentation Rtg 2 (+2 BODy for damage resistance and +1 to Unarmed DV), you could have Titanium Bone Lacing instead (+3 BODy for Damage Resistance, +3 to Unarmed DV, +1 Impact Armor, +1 Ballistic Armor) which is more resistant to "military" damage (read: bullets) and even more effective in hand-to-hand combat. ESSence wise, it's 0.6 vs 1.5, but the rest of the 'ware I have described is ESSence-light. Since we're talking "special" status units here, we're talking at LEAST Alpha- and possibly Betaware, further reducing ESSence costs (and negating purchase costs as a concern to some extent).

Higher level Orthoskin would be come the norm, some kind of IP boost (Despite the cost, financially, I see the military opting for Bioward here; The elimination of maintenance is important, but the "fluff" aspect of a biological improvement that the soldier can adapt to much more easily rather than a "on-off" hyper-tense state would actually be a very important factor) would be expected.

Reflex Recorders might be a possibility. Even higher levels of Muscle Augmentation and Muscle Toner. Higher levels of Synthecardium and Extended Volume. Trauma Damper. Nephritic Screen and Symbiotes. Platelet Factories. Tracheal Filters and Toxin Extractors. All become militarily viable in a specialist Marine. Despite a loss of "endurance" in terms of field-time due to increased caloric needs, the Suprathyroid Gland is a war-winner, especially for the price. Damage Compensators can make the difference between a mission-kill and a functional Marine as well.

Cyberlimbs are a long-term maintenance nightmare, and except for - possibly - dedicated heavy weapons troopers, of only minor benefit.

Cybereyes and Cybereyes would be a standard with "advanced" troops if for no other reason than their audio damper (gunfire?!) and recording abilities, making it possible for the REMFs-er, General Officers behind the lines to better micro-manage the battle.

Other interesting possibilities: SimRig, to allow comprehensive after-action evaluation, including the soldier's emotional sidebar. For "Expeditionary" forces, you might just see SkillWires appear, not for battlefield skills, but for OFF-field capabilities allowing a small unit to be re-tasked rapidly. (You don't want 'wired skills on a real battlefield, because personal initiative, creativity and intuition are often what make or break an engagement, and you lost that with 'wired skills.) OXSYS Cybergill and/or Internal Air Tank. Upgrade of the BioMonitor to a NanoBiomonitor for the more detailed information it can provide. Oh, and a NanoHive, so you can fit the soldier with specialized defensive nanites to fit a given mission (Anti-Rad, immunity to a particular toxin, etc.). Auto-injector for emergency stabilization drugs. (No, you are NOT going to give your half-million nuyen soldier COMBAT drugs - you WANT them lucid and responsive, not hyped up and hopped up.)

One possibilty at the VERY high end of "specialized" soldiers would be a Betaware Move-By-Wire System. That gives you many benefits at once. Why Betaware? Because the military tends to do things one of two ways: half-assed lowest-bidder crap, or gazillion nuyen gold-plated toilet seats. If they're going to drop the nuyen on a MBW system (Min Rtg 2), then they're going to get it "MilSpec" - Betaware - for improved durability, decreased maintenace needs, better user-interface and reduced impact on the trooped (letting them squeeze in even more 'ware).

That covers most of what I see as likely 'ware. Most of the rest is something you're more likely to see in the shadows than the military. I probably could have organized that a bit better, but I'm in a hurry this morning.