Karma Points, How many and how often do you distribute them? Options

[Blackb1rd]

I've been involved in a couple of runs with a few friends and always found the Karma point distribution too low at the end of the run. A four hour session with at least an hour of combat mixed in should warrant more than one Karma point right? Now, I'm good friends with the GM and i don't plan to argue my point with him as it is his game and we all tend to play by the GM's rules. I just wanted to know how other groups budget their Karma points, how they distribute them and how many.

Thanks for any input.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I've been involved in a couple of runs with a few friends and always found the Karma point distribution too low at the end of the run. A four hour session with at least an hour of combat mixed in should warrant more than one Karma point right? Now, I'm good friends with the GM and i don't plan to argue my point with him as it is his game and we all tend to play by the GM's rules. I just wanted to know how other groups budget their Karma points, how they distribute them and how many.

Thanks for any input.

For Us... FOr a Run, It may take multiple sessions to complete the run... at the end of each individual session, we generally receive 1-3 points (Survival, Roleplaying, Possibly another if we did real good)... at the end of the actual RUN... we get totalled Karma for the run itself, averaging aqbout 7-9 if we did really well... so a good run that takes 3 sessions could conceivably net us from 10 to 15 total points of Karma over the course of those 3 sessions... it is generally the lower end, but sometimes we do get lucky...

Keep the Faith

[Orcus Blackweath...]

I'm in Tymeaus game. Some weeks we only get 1 point. Other weeks when a run is completes we may get as much as 10 points. We have been playing for over a year, almost 2 in fact, and my character is almost to 200 Karma.

[Blackb1rd]

Thanks to both of you. I guess now that its explained a little further it makes sense. That seems like the logical way my GM is probably running things and we've only had a couple of sessions so maybe more Karma points are coming in the near future. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)

[MikeKozar]

We have a house rule that you might like.

The GM awards Karma at the end of the session as appropriate - You got the Briefcase, you didn't die, etc. Then he opens the floor for nominations - anything that the players think was particularly awesome and reward-worthy is brought up. The GM considers whether it was really worth an extra point, and awards where appropriate. The key to it is that nominations for another player are weighted more heavily then nominations for yourself.

This has turned the after-game session in our group into a gleeful recap of everybody's greatest hits, and gets players to point out where their teammates really carried the day. It's great for morale and camaraderie, and it makes the GM feel better about awarding those points.


...to answer your actual question, we earn about as much as Tymeaus' group...although since the onus is on the players to find excuses for bonus Karma, there aren't too many complaints.

[JaronK]

I recently ran Extraction Reaction (created by someone else on these boards, you can look it up) and gave 7 Karma to the team for successful completion of the run, which took 3 sessions (two of planning).

JaronK

[Fuchs]

We don't use karma. Advancement is done by group consensus.

[Medicineman]

I try to go by the 4A Rules so I'm a little Generous. 6-9 Karma per Session(1 Session is 7-9 Hours of Play).Right Now one of my Groups is in a very High End Adventure (discovering a Caer and a "Big League Horror",Lofwyre will appear...) I guess It'll be about 6 to 8 Sessions and Ill guess they'll earn > 50 Karma.They finished the easy Parts (3 Sessions) and have 15-20 allready

with a High End Dance
Medicineman

[Faradon]

I try to make the adventure long/challenging enough to award 5 / game session (usually 8 hours with a lot of time built in for eating and BS'ing).

Then we also have the players vote on that game's MVP for +1 Karma (1 person, no ties) and players may then lobby, in front of everyone, for 1 Karma due to a superior idea, role playing, etc. (because sometimes I forget things that happened a few hours ago.)

Finally, I try to keep the players involved with the game's web page... so if they update the adventure log, npc information, etc. They can each earn 1 Karma between games.

That puts a max possible at about 8.. but realistically 6 is the average per player per game (every other week)

*edit* - S4A (though it was only 1-2 less on average under S4

[Screaming Eagle]

4th ed - Non-A
1-2 points per sessions more or less regardless - one for arriving and a second for... something, seriously how bad are the players that they don't do at least one of the other awards? If we just role play I tend to run the awards from 1 (was present) to 4 (role played well, made the game break either for a "wow, that was awesome" or laughter/fun and one more for advancing personal plots.

Runs tend to award another 1-3 for how kick ass they did with one or 2 "bonus" points kicking around for "doing the right thing" and the like.

Minimum/max 2-9 - for the record 9 would require a kick ass roleplaying and long session or someone intergrating advancement of their personal stories duriong a mission (its been rare but has happened).

I've been told I run advancement a little bit "fast". Something in the order of 20% faster then suggested.

[Paul]

I've always been stingy with Karma. But I'm looking to change that. I'd like to set up so that after each session every PC can advance at least one skill or ability after each session. In previous years money has always been easy to get, but karma was in short supply. I'm going to try and scale back the cash, and scale up the Karma.

[Murrdox]

I don't award Karma on a "per session" basis, but based on the Objectives for the Run and for how difficult that objective was to complete.

My players go really slowly, and our sessions are limited to 3 hour chunks. Thus, they go for quite a few sessions before getting Karma awards. For a typical Run which had between 2-4 objectives, it usually comes out to around 6-8 Karma a piece after bonuses and roleplaying are taken into account.

[Faradon]

I've always been stingy with Karma. But I'm looking to change that. I'd like to set up so that after each session every PC can advance at least one skill or ability after each session. In previous years money has always been easy to get, but karma was in short supply. I'm going to try and scale back the cash, and scale up the Karma.

Just be careful with that rebalancing so that awakened characters don't pull too far ahead too fast on the mundane (and cyber) characters... who can depend heavily on cash for major upgrades (beta/deltaware, new toys, etc.)

[Kerrang]

I've been involved in a couple of runs with a few friends and always found the Karma point distribution too low at the end of the run. A four hour session with at least an hour of combat mixed in should warrant more than one Karma point right? Now, I'm good friends with the GM and i don't plan to argue my point with him as it is his game and we all tend to play by the GM's rules. I just wanted to know how other groups budget their Karma points, how they distribute them and how many.

Thanks for any input.

Unlike most other games, combat, or the lack thereof, should not factor into the karma award. Receiving one karma point for a session, however, is very low. I can only assume that the mission was not completed during the session, but even at that, each player should walk away with at least 2 points, one for survival and one for roleplaying/pushing the plot/humor/right skill at the right time/buying the GM pizza... whatever stands out for each player. I have only awarded a single point of personal karma in two instances, the first time was when one of my players slept through almost the entire session, and the other time was when a player refused to have his character do anything other than sit at the safe house during a mission (this despite the fact that I basically told him point blank that his character should join the others because nothing was going to happen where he was).

Now, if you have actually completed a mission (or even if you failed, but wrapped it up), you should be getting quite a bit more. Each player should receive team karma awards after a mission is wrapped up, and this is on top of any personal karma awarded for that session. I typically give 1-4 points for threat level, and one point for each objective accomplished. Maybe your GM is confused over the team karma award, and is adding all the karma up and dividing it between the players in the group? It should not be divided, each player should receive the full amount of karma.

[Blackb1rd]

Hey everyone, thanks again for the insight, my GM's pretty in tune with the rules and i have no reason to seriously doubt him. Sometimes i just feel we aren't getting enough. We are about ten-minutes-into-the-next-session away from completing the current run we are on so I'll see what happens then. Maybe its only been one point per session because he's saving a good karmic bonus for the end of the run. I was just curious as to how other groups did things, and i am really happy to recieve a veariety of insightful thoughts on the subject.

[Paul]

Just be careful with that rebalancing so that awakened characters don't pull too far ahead too fast on the mundane (and cyber) characters... who can depend heavily on cash for major upgrades (beta/deltaware, new toys, etc.)

It's a concern, believe me.

[Ayeohx]

I award karma based on the length of the run usually; sometimes the length of the game session comes into play.

A standard run for the group is: The Meet, the Footwork, the Execution, the Wrap-up. This usually gets the PCs 4 karma.
If I throw some hooks or plot twist in there then I tend to add more karma, roughly equaling +1 per twist.

For example, the run is an extraction. On the way to the exchange site the heli goes down landing the group into a ghoul infested body shop. They are then stuck hoofing it through the Redmond with a critically sick Extraction subject in tow. The game also took a long time. I think I gave 7 karma. Would have went up another if I added the doublecross at the end; I was just too tired and wrapped the session instead.

[Saint Sithney]

Just be careful with that rebalancing so that awakened characters don't pull too far ahead too fast on the mundane (and cyber) characters... who can depend heavily on cash for major upgrades (beta/deltaware, new toys, etc.)

Pish-posh. Foci are a huge money sink and a huge advantage for mages. While not deltaware bio implants expensive, few things are.

[Medicineman]

Hey everyone, thanks again for the insight, my GM's pretty in tune with the rules and i have no reason to seriously doubt him. Sometimes i just feel we aren't getting enough. We are about ten-minutes-into-the-next-session away from completing the current run we are on so I'll see what happens then. Maybe its only been one point per session because he's saving a good karmic bonus for the end of the run. I was just curious as to how other groups did things, and i am really happy to recieve a veariety of insightful thoughts on the subject.

SR4A RAW is about 6-12 Karma for an Adventure/Run with 7-8 being Average
(and I consider it Unfair to use 4A Rules if you don't get 4A Karma (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )

he who Dances with Karma
Medicineman

[Triggerz]

Hmmm... Could someone please give me a couple examples of why more karma is required for SR4A? I haven't compared the two versions in detail. The only difference I have noted up till now is that some adept powers were cheaper in SR4A (if I am not mistaken), which would suggest giving less karma rather than more. But I assume a lot of other stuff has changed too...

[Medicineman]

Hmmm... Could someone please give me a couple examples of why more karma is required for SR4A? I haven't compared the two versions in detail. The only difference I have noted up till now is that some adept powers were cheaper in SR4A (if I am not mistaken), which would suggest giving less karma rather than more. But I assume a lot of other stuff has changed too...

to raise an Attribute costs now "new Attribute x5" instead of the old "new attr. x3"

with a new Dance
Medicineman

[Triggerz]

Ok, thanks. I read a bit more about SR4A vs SR4 in another thread and now feel a bit more up to speed on the issue. I love the game. The fluff is delicious. But I wish the rules were better than they now are. I don't know if the 4th edition was rushed out the door or what, but... Oh! Well... No use in bitching and whining.

[deek]

I hand out a ton of karma to my players, but balance it by limiting the amount of time they have to train, but even with that, they all advance pretty quickly. But realize, quick advancement is a point here and there, so it is more noticeable when they get low karma.

Anyways, each session I hand out a minimum of 8 karma, then give bonus points for roleplaying, survival, great ideas or just generally how much fun and action was had. So, that ends up being between 9 and 14 karma per session. We meet every other Monday for about 5 hours, so while the PCs advance insanely fast in game time (campaign has been going on for about 4 months in the game), in real time, we've been playing over a year, so the 150ish karma everyone has feels right.

[Warlordtheft]

I give out Karma at the end of the run, not every gaming session. Some runs have lasted over three sessions. If a run takes one session the karma is about 6-8, two sesssion 10 to 12, and 3-(Have had only a couple of those)-15 for one and 20 for the other.

[StealthSigma]

to raise an Attribute costs now "new Attribute x5" instead of the old "new attr. x3"

with a new Dance
Medicineman

If that is justification to increase karma rewards, then there's no point to change the cost. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

All you're doing is negating a change that is pretty obvious to be intended towards slowing character growth.