IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Google 207x, 6th world public search engines
Paul
post Nov 2 2009, 02:15 AM
Post #1


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,001
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Michigan
Member No.: 1,514



Given how readily data is supposed to be available in the sixth world, do your players, or groups make use of sixth world search engines? Do they Google names, addresses, or other points of interest? I see no way that even the best hacker/cracker in the world, even with a legion of corporate funding could keep track of every search engine, all of the time.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Blackb1rd
post Nov 2 2009, 02:57 AM
Post #2


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 122
Joined: 28-October 09
From: West Point, New York
Member No.: 17,805



I find one of the most satisfying things about Shadowrun is that we really have no idea what the corps are capable of. Maybe thy have found a way to monitor everything maybe not.

Sorry, i didn;t really answer your question.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LurkerOutThere
post Nov 2 2009, 03:26 AM
Post #3


Runner
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,946
Joined: 1-June 09
From: Omaha
Member No.: 17,234



Errr your post confuses me, it's very easy to track search engines. It's already done conventionally in real time. For a corporation who both control their own search engines and can therefore see who is searching what and who can control the bandwidth to see what requests go where controlling search engines would be simplicity itself by RL means.

Now as to how search engines are represented I hadn't given it much luck. When my players want to use one I give it an AR bonus, but for the best security and results your better off with your own browse program which, I might add, are cheap as dirt comparatively. In other words I don't think the corps allowed search engines to come to fruition.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Traul
post Nov 2 2009, 03:27 AM
Post #4


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,190
Joined: 31-May 09
From: London, UK
Member No.: 17,229



Do search engines still exist in the way we know them? A P2P approach would suit the wireless matrix architecture better: you ask your neighbours who ask their neighbours who ask their neighbours who...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tyro
post Nov 2 2009, 07:20 AM
Post #5


Shooting Target
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,768
Joined: 31-October 08
From: Redmond (Yes, really)
Member No.: 16,558



I'm pretty sure this is covered by the data search skill. (Did I remember the name right? AFB atm)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Blade
post Nov 2 2009, 11:37 AM
Post #6


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 3,009
Joined: 25-September 06
From: Paris, France
Member No.: 9,466



It's covered by Data Search+Browse (or the Fetch agents described in Unwired).

But if you want to develop it further, I think that the search engines of 2070 aren't like Google, but closer to what you have on wap cellphones with closed carrier portals. Forget everything about net-neutrality and "free" internet: if you want something, you pay. There's no centralized search engines, and the search engines that are available are closer to "yellow pages" where people sometimes have to pay to be referenced (or te be the first on the list) and where each new Matrix site has to go through a validation process ("for the security of end users", of course).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Paul
post Nov 2 2009, 01:32 PM
Post #7


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,001
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Michigan
Member No.: 1,514



QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Nov 1 2009, 10:26 PM) *
Errr your post confuses me, it's very easy to track search engines.


My apologies. I didn't know that. I do not work in the technology field, and have little interest in it-so I'm not surprised when I'm wrong here and there!

Can someone in the know tell me just how much someone can learn from your Google usage? Anyone feel like predicting it's status in 207x?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hobgoblin
post Nov 2 2009, 01:47 PM
Post #8


panda!
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,331
Joined: 8-March 02
From: north of central europe
Member No.: 2,242



QUOTE (Blade @ Nov 2 2009, 12:37 PM) *
It's covered by Data Search+Browse (or the Fetch agents described in Unwired).

But if you want to develop it further, I think that the search engines of 2070 aren't like Google, but closer to what you have on wap cellphones with closed carrier portals. Forget everything about net-neutrality and "free" internet: if you want something, you pay. There's no centralized search engines, and the search engines that are available are closer to "yellow pages" where people sometimes have to pay to be referenced (or te be the first on the list) and where each new Matrix site has to go through a validation process ("for the security of end users", of course).

indeed, and thats what leads me to suspect that most wageslaves do not use high end comlinks for personal use.

instead, they use cheapo response 1 devices that they basically use to log into a corp MSP node, that then act as a kind of all in one online computer, providing software, agents and other stuff running on some corp nexi (or cluster of nexi).

when they then head to the office, unless they are some cubicle farm "paper" pusher that never handle "sensitive" data and can work in VR from the apartment easy chair, they hand in the private comlink, and access a on-site device after getting past the checkpoint and inside the signal dampening walls.

basically, the easiest way to grasp the matrix of SR is to say that the internet and the web as we know it never happened.

instead, the BBS of the 80's have gone VR.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TBRMInsanity
post Nov 2 2009, 02:42 PM
Post #9


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,002
Joined: 22-April 06
From: Canada
Member No.: 8,494



What is Google but a set of web spiders (ie very primitive Knowbots) that search the internet for information and then categorize that information. I would think that when you are doing a data search you have a custom tailored knowbots that you send out into the Matrix to find certain information for you. Your Data Search + Browse roll is a combination of the criteria you are giving the knowbots + your ability to decipher the information presented to you. I would think that a good search program would be a shadow created knowbots that know some low level security hacks so they can obtain some semiprotected information in their searches.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Paul
post Nov 2 2009, 02:55 PM
Post #10


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,001
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Michigan
Member No.: 1,514



So how serious is searching for information on your target in 207x? Say I get hired to do a smash and grab on a Saeder Krupp facility in Seattle, and I decide to just Google the target, and see what information is publicly available.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nezumi
post Nov 2 2009, 03:09 PM
Post #11


Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet;
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 6,546
Joined: 24-October 03
From: DeeCee, U.S.
Member No.: 5,760



Yes, there's a good deal of data available publicly online, or through private networks and data havens. However, big boys have people whose only job it is is to control information leaks.

If you are hoping to find what Janitor's Bob's address is, it's probably not real hard. If you're hoping to find the secret recipe to Ares Cola, however, it won't exist for just data searches.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Traul
post Nov 2 2009, 03:30 PM
Post #12


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,190
Joined: 31-May 09
From: London, UK
Member No.: 17,229



QUOTE (nezumi @ Nov 2 2009, 04:09 PM) *
If you're hoping to find the secret recipe to Ares Cola, however, it won't exist for just data searches.

Of course: they do not want people to learn that it is based on corpses.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hobgoblin
post Nov 2 2009, 04:23 PM
Post #13


panda!
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,331
Joined: 8-March 02
From: north of central europe
Member No.: 2,242



i hate it when my recently bought bottle goes shedim on me!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ayeohx
post Nov 3 2009, 01:30 AM
Post #14


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 346
Joined: 17-September 06
From: Utah USA
Member No.: 9,402



QUOTE (Paul @ Nov 1 2009, 07:15 PM) *
Given how readily data is supposed to be available in the sixth world, do your players, or groups make use of sixth world search engines? Do they Google names, addresses, or other points of interest? I see no way that even the best hacker/cracker in the world, even with a legion of corporate funding could keep track of every search engine, all of the time.


Hell yes they do!!! I mentioned it once and now they "Google" everything, especially since they don't have a PC hacker. I don't make them do a Data Search for common data either. Search engine technology should really rock by 2072.

In fact, I have stated that they can basically run a search and then take all of the facts and wrap it up in a neat little package and send it to a pal. They've had a hacker NPC buddy that would send them output for simple queries in an interactive package, pretty much with wiki and html linking intact. It's the future baby, treat it as such!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ascalaphus
post Nov 3 2009, 01:57 AM
Post #15


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,899
Joined: 29-October 09
From: Leiden, the Netherlands
Member No.: 17,814



I'll certainly look up anything that comes up that seems relevant; but then I'm a curious, control-oriented person. I tend to play wizards, SR is the first game where hackers exist, so..

What I did earlier with a wizard in SR was to buy a few hundred rating 6 datafiles (fairly cheap) just to have a fair chance to have good info on anything that comes up.

However, the BBS-like nature of the matrix wasn't very obvious to me until I started reading this forum a couple of days ago. It might change the way I use it (if data havens fulfill wikipedia-like roles of providing free data).



I think there's a nice spot for Horizon in the consumer information market. Anyone else see paralells between Horizon and Google?



Also, what does it take to have access to a data haven? Should you take it as a contact perhaps?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ayeohx
post Nov 3 2009, 02:33 AM
Post #16


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 346
Joined: 17-September 06
From: Utah USA
Member No.: 9,402



QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ Nov 2 2009, 06:57 PM) *
I think there's a nice spot for Horizon in the consumer information market. Anyone else see paralells between Horizon and Google?


Nice observation, I do now! I've haven't gave a lot of thought to Horizon; that definitely helps visualize them.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hobgoblin
post Nov 3 2009, 09:20 AM
Post #17


panda!
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,331
Joined: 8-March 02
From: north of central europe
Member No.: 2,242



QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ Nov 3 2009, 02:57 AM) *
I think there's a nice spot for Horizon in the consumer information market. Anyone else see paralells between Horizon and Google?


now there's a thought. probably roll them with a bit of aol and facebook for good measure.

hell, they have already shown themselves to be impressive opinion manipulators, just watch pulsar during emergence.

it would not surprise me if the dawkings group pulls some meme seeding ever so often. Hmm, now that i think about it, and that i am reading the dune saga, meme seeding sounds a fair bit like the bene gesserit myth seeding.

QUOTE
Also, what does it take to have access to a data haven? Should you take it as a contact perhaps?


i guess it would depend on the kind of data handled, and where the physical location is set up. If its running out of some free city or similar, one can probably just "walk in", but expect a lot of spam and misdirection seeding. Shadowland and now jackpoint are more invitation or "if you can crack your way in, welcome".
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Lok1 :)
post Nov 3 2009, 08:01 PM
Post #18


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 278
Joined: 26-June 09
Member No.: 17,321



I'm pretty sure (but my be mistaken) that in some fiction I was reading a while back (I think it was Born To Run) that they mention a public search engine called gaugle or some other play on words of google.
I'll check it later to be sure, as for montering it we can do that today, with the matrix at what it is in 2070 I'm guna say just about any of the Corps can find out what the hell your searching. Your fine as long as you use a homemade browse program but otherwise people are guna know what your up to.
That said with all the flow data unless you happen to search a big bunch of codewords from a corp project or go around useing Horizon search to look for jackpoint or shadowland* you'll be fine.
*Do the corps know about jackpoint?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
LurkerOutThere
post Nov 3 2009, 08:32 PM
Post #19


Runner
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,946
Joined: 1-June 09
From: Omaha
Member No.: 17,234



The corps most certainly do, they certainly knew about shadowland.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Traul
post Nov 3 2009, 09:21 PM
Post #20


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,190
Joined: 31-May 09
From: London, UK
Member No.: 17,229



QUOTE (Lok1 :) @ Nov 3 2009, 09:01 PM) *
I'm guna say just about any of the Corps can find out what the hell your searching.

That is not such a big deal for runners: corps are not supposed to know who they are in the first place. It might be much more dangerous for public figures: did you know that Brackhaven has a fetish for mixed elf/orc porn?

The risk for the runner would rather be that the corp tries to know who performed searches related to a run just done. Runners can deal with it by starting a buzz before the run to drown their datatrail in false positives. All the corp will get is that 4709 SINless in Seattle searched for the XCore project 48 hours before the prototype got stolen. As it is generally impossible to find the start of the buzz, it's the end of the trail.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Godwyn
post Nov 3 2009, 09:46 PM
Post #21


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 135
Joined: 3-November 09
Member No.: 17,838



I think any corps sponsored search engine, which would be the ones the majority of people use, the majority of the time, would be heavily edited for what the search can return. Anyone remember Google agreeing to censor the internet for China in order to gain them as a market? In the heavily corps favorable SR mythos, it seems highly likely that a search engine would return only what the corps it belonged to wanted you to find.

Search engines rely on having an extensive database available, whoever controls that database controls what the search engine can effectively do.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kzt
post Nov 3 2009, 10:22 PM
Post #22


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,537
Joined: 27-August 06
From: Albuquerque NM
Member No.: 9,234



The issue is that the Ares sponsored search engine would have oodles of stuff that Aztechnology would rather you not know....
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Godwyn
post Nov 3 2009, 11:53 PM
Post #23


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 135
Joined: 3-November 09
Member No.: 17,838



Then the search engine itself would probably be Availibility 4F or so in areas they controlled. No big deal to shadowrunners, but the majority of the populace, the people Aztechnology would really worry about, would not have it.

Shadowrunners make light of illegality of items, but that tends to be a relatively decent deterrent when it comes to things people do not particularly care about acquiring, unlike drugs. Like many types of knowledge in many of the military regimes, distribution to more "elite" citizens was generally not punished, only distribution to the general populace would be treated severely.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nezumi
post Nov 4 2009, 02:09 PM
Post #24


Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet;
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 6,546
Joined: 24-October 03
From: DeeCee, U.S.
Member No.: 5,760



I don't think it would have limited availability. However, it's not like it's going to have Aztechnology secrets (or else they're not secrets any more). It likely does have propaganda, but if 70% of your search engine results were regularly propaganda, how much stock would you put in any of it?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kzt
post Nov 4 2009, 04:57 PM
Post #25


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,537
Joined: 27-August 06
From: Albuquerque NM
Member No.: 9,234



What it will have is things like the actual history of Aztechnology and Aztlan. Along with lots of documentation, videos, pictures, on the founders and their numerous victims.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 29th March 2024 - 04:36 AM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.