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> Corp/National Military Personnal, Just as what the title says
Hero
post Feb 1 2004, 09:45 PM
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The following stats and gear are for in conflict grunts, weapons are left up to the GM to decide as each corp and nation have there preferred firearms. But I see most military units using some type of medium/heavy caliber pistol, while using a very standard .223(5.56x45mm NATO) rifle. The personnel listed below are more of the Army grunts. I don't have mages or shamans in there because I believe they would be put in there own corps and be assigned on a need to need bases, I'll be adding those later. As for the adepts they are easy enough, just give said person a magic of six with adjustments as needed, and assign powers. The format goes base attributes, karma, dice pool, skills, then specialist skills, gear and specialist gear.

CODE

Private (E1-E3)
--Attributes--
B:4
Q:4
S:4
C:3
I:3
W:4
E:6
M:0
R:4
Init:1d6

--Karma--
Good:0
Pool:1

--Dice Pool--
Combat:6

--Skills--
Rifle*:4
Pistol:2
Throwing(grenades):2(4)
Polearm:2
Edged:3
Brawl:3
Athletics:4
Etiquette:3
Intimidate:3
Computer:2
Electronics:2
SUT:3

Corporal/Specialist(E4, see specialist skills and gear)
--Attributes--
B:4
Q:4
S:4
C:3
I:4
W:4
E:6
M:0
R:4
Init:1d6

--Karma--
Good:10
Pool:2

--Dice Pool--
Combat:6

--Skills--
Rifle*:4
Pistol:2
Throwing(grenades):2(4)
Polearm:3
Edged:3
Brawl:3
Athletics:4
Etiquette:3
Intimidate:3
Computer:2
Electronics:2
SUT:3

Sergeant (E5)
--Attributes--
B:5
Q:4
S:4
C:3
I:4
W:4
E:6
M:0
R:4
Init:1d6

--Karma--
Good:20
Pool:3

--Dice Pool--
Combat:6

--Skills--
Rifle*:4
Pistol:3
Throwing(grenades):3(5)
Polearm:3
Edged:4
Brawl:4
Athletics:4
Etiquette:4
Intimidate:4
Computer:3
Electronics:3
SUT:4

Sergeant 1st Class (E6)
--Attributes--
B:5
Q:4
S:4
C:3
I:4
W:5
E:6
M:0
R:4
Init:1d6

--Karma--
Good:30
Pool:4

--Dice Pool--
Combat:6

--Skills--
Rifle*:4
Pistol:3
Throwing(grenades):3(5)
Polearm:4
Edged:4
Brawl:4
Athletics:5
Etiquette:4
Intimidate:4
Computer:3
Electronics:3
SUT:5


::Specalist Skills::
--Medic--
(act)Biotech:4
(act)Computers(cybertech):+2
(act)Electronics(Cybertech):+2
(kno)Medicine:4
(kno)Awakened Care:4

--Sharp Shooter--
(act)Stealth:4
(kno)Physics(Ballistic):3(5)

--Recon--
(act)Stealth:4
(act)Wilderness Survival:4
(kno)Geography:4
(kno)Navigation:4

--Weapons Specialist--
(act)Heavy Weapons:4
(act)Launcher:4

--Communications Specialist--
(act)Computer:+2
(act)Electronics:+2
(kno)Electronic Warfare:4

--Demolitions Specialist--
(act)Demolitions:4
(kno)Engineering:4
(kno)Physics:4

(act) = Active
(kno) = Knowledge


::Gear::
--Weapons--
Any Rifle
Any Medium/Heavy Pistol
4 of any grenades
Survival Knife

--Armor/Clothing--
Armor Clothing(3/0)
Armor Vest w/ Plates(4/3)
Helmet(1/1)
 ->Personal Reciever**
 ->Low-light/Thermal
 ->Vid Cam
 ->Heads-up display(100Mp)
Combat Boots-Full height(1/1)
Total:6/5

--Web Gear--
Load Bearing Harness
 ->3 Rifle/SMG Pouch
 ->1 Pistol Pouch


::Specialist Gear::
--Medic--
Saviour Advance Medkit
Saviour Supplies
Assorted Drug/Chem/Compounds

--Sharp Shooter--
Any Sniper/Anti-materials Rifle

--Recon--
Any sound dampened weapon
Ruthioum Polymer(2 sensor)/Thermal dampener clock

--Weapons--
Any heavy weapon
Any launch weapon

--Communications--
Portable Master unit6**
Wider Area Jammer6

--Demolition--
C12 charges
Door breach charges
Timers
Radio Detenator

::Notes::
*Rifle skill is used for any type of rifle
**Has broadcast encryption/decryption 6
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Arethusa
post Feb 1 2004, 10:33 PM
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If there's anything videogames have taught me, it's that the higher a soldier ranks, the tougher his stats are. President Bush probably wears a suit of power armor and has Body 9 and Rifles 8.
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Digital Heroin
post Feb 1 2004, 11:06 PM
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Not only that, but he's in a tank while in the power armor... a power armor sized tank...
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Hero
post Feb 1 2004, 11:09 PM
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Na, Pres Bush would just hide him self in some under ground bunker, nothing can get him there.
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Arethusa
post Feb 1 2004, 11:13 PM
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Ok, I didn't mean to hijack the thread from the first post (though, go me; that's a rare feat), but seriously, higher rank does not mean higher stats. Assuming a general level of competence, the guys in command will likely be smarter and more experienced, but they won't necessarily be the strongest, fittest, or best shots. That mentality is rather silly, and something you really only expect to see in equally silly games.
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Hero
post Feb 1 2004, 11:19 PM
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Thats what I did with these ones, some of my prior troops where kinda funky as they had huge ass physical stats, I changed that around a bit except with the Sergeant 1st Class. I decided to only go up to E-6 because if I went all the way to E-9 there would be a couple of repeats, and that take up a lot of space. And as for the progress of the other soldiers stats, the combat mages should be done in a day or so.
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Fortune
post Feb 2 2004, 01:35 AM
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Military personnel are not usually trained in Pistol. Officers are the exception, of course, but even then the training is relatively minimal.
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mfb
post Feb 2 2004, 01:39 AM
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they often are at E-7 and above, as well. and officers have to qual on their pistols as often as we grunt types qual on our rifles (whether or not that actually happens, i don't know; i just know what's supposed to happen).
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Fortune
post Feb 2 2004, 02:03 AM
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QUOTE (mfb)
they often are at E-7 and above, as well. and officers have to qual on their pistols as often as we grunt types qual on our rifles (whether or not that actually happens, i don't know; i just know what's supposed to happen).

Fair enough. My point was really that not every grunt would be trained at an above average level with a pistol.
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toturi
post Feb 2 2004, 02:13 AM
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I would add that Assault Rifles would be more appropriate than Rifles. Unless the soldier in question is a sniper. And SMG seems unnecessary unless you are a pilot, or some other vocation that doesn't involve direct frontline combat. If so, I'll simply use SMG and no Rifle skill.
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FlakJacket
post Feb 2 2004, 02:20 AM
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Yeah, switch out Rifles for Assualt Rifles. I don't know myself, but is the average grunt even trained on SMG's during basic or on active? They seem to just go for a carbine like the M4 if they want something that's a bit smaller/more compact.

Also, are soldiers today given any training on using bayonets? Fairly archaic, but a proven tried and tested method, so I'm not too sure. If they are then I might recommend putting a point into the Polearms skill for it. And I didn't see any Throwing Weapons up there, so you might want to consider that, possibly specialising in grenades, if you want them to be able to use anything other than rifle launched mini-grenades.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Feb 2 2004, 02:23 AM
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Hero probably uses a house rule that all Rifles, including ARs, use the Rifles skill, and that's why the Rifles skill is there. SMG is certainly unneccessary for most, especially since SMGs are being phased out in military use. The Pistols skill was already commented on -- and note that there are no grades above E-6 on the table, so it's very unlikely that they'd have the skill. MPs and some other units might be an exception, but these would still probably have the long-arm skill (ARs in canon, probably Rs in the above table) higher than the Pistols skill.

The Edged and Brawl skills seem unneccessarily high.

QUOTE (FlackJacket)
is the average grunt even trained on SMG's during basic or on active?

I'm pretty sure they aren't. Only specialty units might have that, and even that is far less common now that carbines are replacing SMGs. You won't be seeing SEALs running around with MP5s a lot anymore, which is a pity. :(
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Hero
post Feb 2 2004, 03:09 AM
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I have made some amendments to the soldiers above, like rifles to assualt rifles and pistol skill reduction. I have also added Sniper Specialist to the specialist skill and gear table.
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Fortune
post Feb 2 2004, 03:16 AM
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QUOTE (Austere Emancipator @ Feb 2 2004, 01:23 PM)
QUOTE (Fortune)
is the average grunt even trained on SMG's during basic or on active?

That's not my quote! :P

As to the Rifle/Assault Rifle thing, combining the two skills is one of the house rules I use. :)
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Siege
post Feb 2 2004, 04:05 AM
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It depends on the carbine -- the SEALs prefer the quality of the HK series, so any future carbine system will have a pretty impressive standard to meet.

-Siege
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Omer Joel
post Feb 2 2004, 09:49 AM
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Concerning attributes, most troops of the same "quality level" (same unit, mostly) will have similar attributes; Medics/electronics officers/intelligence officers might have a slightly higher INT, though. Ofcourse, Specforce units would probably have much higher stats (especially Willpower and Body) than base-level grunts, due to intense selection processes.

Officers should have similar stats to privates, and better skills - especially social/tactical ones (like Leadership (military), Ettiquette (Military and Small Unit Tactics) that a good officer should have (but not all officers are good at what they do, especially in third-world armies and/or low-grade units and desk officers). NCOs in combat units could have better combat related skills than their less-experienced comrades, and higher etiquette(military).

Career soldiers (who sign long-term service contracts with the military) are far more likely to have cyber than short-term conscripts, especially smartlinks, eye/ear mods and comm headware. :cyber:

I usually see Corp militaries as very different than Government forces: Corporates usually don't fight long, strategic-scale all-out wars (Aztlan being a very notable exception here), as it's VERY bad to their bottom line - if they'll need something at that scale, they'll bribe/blackmail/manipulate a government to do the dirst, expensive job for them. Corporate shouldn't have too many big-ass tanks and strategic assets (big strategic bombers, lots of ICBMs, large aircraft carriers, battlecruisers, any nuke abouve the small tactical level), but would have far better fast-response infantry and other tactical-scale forces than any government, especially since most of them manufacture their own cyberware and have their own clinics, not to mention virtually life-long service contracts and access to employee education from a very young age. I view them as the truely "future" military forces - small, flexible, easily deployed anywhere the Corp needs them, highly trained, with SOTA equipment and with combat drugs to fill any niche not already filled by cyber/bio.

Just my 2 :nuyen:
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Austere Emancipa...
post Feb 2 2004, 01:53 PM
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Sorry Fortune, changed the name.

The Attributes of the Sergeants are still too high IMNSHO. I won't wade through into the gear, because I use so many house rules in that section.
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toturi
post Feb 2 2004, 02:42 PM
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QUOTE (Omer Joel)
Concerning attributes, most troops of the same "quality level" (same unit, mostly) will have similar attributes; Medics/electronics officers/intelligence officers might have a slightly higher INT, though. Ofcourse, Specforce units would probably have much higher stats (especially Willpower and Body) than base-level grunts, due to intense selection processes.

Officers should have similar stats to privates, and better skills - especially social/tactical ones (like Leadership (military), Ettiquette (Military and Small Unit Tactics) that a good officer should have (but not all officers are good at what they do, especially in third-world armies and/or low-grade units and desk officers). NCOs in combat units could have better combat related skills than their less-experienced comrades, and higher etiquette(military).

Career soldiers (who sign long-term service contracts with the military) are far more likely to have cyber than short-term conscripts, especially smartlinks, eye/ear mods and comm headware. :cyber:

I usually see Corp militaries as very different than Government forces: Corporates usually don't fight long, strategic-scale all-out wars (Aztlan being a very notable exception here), as it's VERY bad to their bottom line - if they'll need something at that scale, they'll bribe/blackmail/manipulate a government to do the dirst, expensive job for them. Corporate shouldn't have too many big-ass tanks and strategic assets (big strategic bombers, lots of ICBMs, large aircraft carriers, battlecruisers, any nuke abouve the small tactical level), but would have far better fast-response infantry and other tactical-scale forces than any government, especially since most of them manufacture their own cyberware and have their own clinics, not to mention virtually life-long service contracts and access to employee education from a very young age. I view them as the truely "future" military forces - small, flexible, easily deployed anywhere the Corp needs them, highly trained, with SOTA equipment and with combat drugs to fill any niche not already filled by cyber/bio.

Just my 2:nuyen:

I see SpecOps as having either of this 3 Attributes being higher, in the order of descending importance:

Karma Pool(most important), Willpower, Body.

Karma Pool - u can use it for anything. Versatility. SpecOps people need be prepared for anything.

Willpower - Never give up.

Body - Greater comfort zone, and is "easier" to train, given steriods and good nutrition/bio/cyber.
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Solstice
post Feb 2 2004, 07:50 PM
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Your sniper MOS should have the knowledge skill Physics (ballistics).
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Hero
post Feb 3 2004, 03:59 AM
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I am having some trouble on how to deal with the Mages and Shamans, I was thinking of initiating them after a certain point, but cant choose between corporal and sergeant. If I did it around the rank or corporal the said soldier would have enough Karma to do so, but the issue comes up wether a corporal has been in the armed forces long enough to be an initiate in the armed force initiatory group. Any input on this issue would be greatly appreciated.
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Diesel
post Feb 3 2004, 07:35 AM
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There's no reason to progress abilities on rank. Currently, soldiers are not promoted only due to increased skill, but also due to time spent in, and overall good work.

Mages and shamans shouldn't initiate at a set rank, it's not like they go "Congrats on your promotion, we'll see you in the lodge at 0800."

Assigning stats to ranks just seems a little...off.
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Omer Joel
post Feb 3 2004, 08:02 AM
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I don't see most military magicians as initiates; Initiation is difficult, time consuming and possible dangerours (especially with ordeals concerned), and should be mostly in the realm of either SpecForce mages or long-term career ones (and even then, with nothing to do with rank, but with magical "potential" and how much the mage is favored by the corp/higher ranked officers).

Generally, most military magicians would be hermetic; Some shamans would fit will as well, especially ones following totems such as Lion, Wolf or Dog (or, in some places, Ant, Roach or termite :evil:), that are team workers rather than loners and fit well to combat.
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toturi
post Feb 3 2004, 08:26 AM
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My Awakened tend to be officers unless they Awakened after they enlisted.

My take is that they are kind of like doctors, very rare. I think they are rarer than a doctor or even an normal officer so they get officer rank. Even the adepts and sorcerers.
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Birdy
post Feb 3 2004, 02:41 PM
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Even more problems:

Some SR nations still have conscript armies according to canon. There you have the classical "stupid drunken seargeant & highly intelligent private" combo. :-(

Not all nations train soldiers in the same skills. I.e

Quite a few continental armies don't teach bayonet anymore but everybody gets an introduction to LAWS and GPMG

Quite a few nations got rid of machine pistols in favor of folding stock assault rifles and don't teach MPi any more

Skills should include more specialisations. Training with your nations assault rifle does not give you equal skill with all assault rifles

Some basic survival skills might come in handy


Michael
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Nikoli
post Feb 3 2004, 02:51 PM
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Also, shouldn't these guys have some basic Biotech skills? Basic training does teach first aid, at least it did for my Sis, my dad, and most of my buddies in the infantry
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