Dumpshock I plead your aid, How to break yourself out of prision when your team won't. Options

[Xahn Borealis]

That's for a PC starting from scratch though. For a professional forger they likely have a lot of the background crap done already and sitting on a shelf, it'll just be a matter of putting Lok1's biometrics into it.

It's also probable they could have a team working together, contributing to a teamwork test.

[StealthSigma]

Okay, I'll be perfectly honest.

I don't see your character breaking out. You lack the social skills to get other inmates to work with you. You lack the physicals skills to either over power guards or sneak you way out should the opportunity arise. You have a far tighter time since the game has started so GM hand-waivery is out of the picture. Your best bet is to use the legal system.

[Neraph]

Unwired, p85: Fake SIN (Rating x 32) 1 week
Should have been 160, not 260, but that's still a long time.

Apparently I did Rating x 52 instead of the correct Rating x 32. Woops. That still comes out to over 3 years.

That's for a PC starting from scratch though. For a professional forger they likely have a lot of the background crap done already and sitting on a shelf, it'll just be a matter of putting Lok1's biometrics into it.

If you look at how fake SINs are made, all of that information needs to be placed into multiple cold-storage backup servers across multiple nations/continents. The abstracted form of ruling that is the Extended Test listed in the book. It doesn't matter if you have most of the stuff pre-programmed, as the computer systems would detect that "John Edwuardo Doe" does not have any dna, fingerprint, height, weight, eye color, ethnicity information and would clear it out of their systems as either an anomoly, or flag it for further watch, expecting that the information was due to a systems intrusion.

It's also probable they could have a team working together, contributing to a teamwork test.

Teamwork Tests have a maximum dicepool bonus they can add, and while it will cut down on the time required, it will still take an estimated 1 1/2 - 2 years instead of the over 3 years... which is a couple years too slow.

[Cheshyr]

Apparently I did Rating x 52 instead of the correct Rating x 32. Woops. That still comes out to over 3 years.


If you look at how fake SINs are made, all of that information needs to be placed into multiple cold-storage backup servers across multiple nations/continents. The abstracted form of ruling that is the Extended Test listed in the book. It doesn't matter if you have most of the stuff pre-programmed, as the computer systems would detect that "John Edwuardo Doe" does not have any dna, fingerprint, height, weight, eye color, ethnicity information and would clear it out of their systems as either an anomoly, or flag it for further watch, expecting that the information was due to a systems intrusion.


Teamwork Tests have a maximum dicepool bonus they can add, and while it will cut down on the time required, it will still take an estimated 1 1/2 - 2 years instead of the over 3 years... which is a couple years too slow.

There are a number of things that could be done to shorten this time, and I think you could probably get it down to 6 months or so. I doubt you want to quit playing for 6 months though. I'm going to have to go with the 'play the legal system' angle suggested, or if the Gm won't let you... then take the hint and reroll.

[nezumi]

1) Know your enemy. Which group has caught you? Lone Star? Knight Errant? Or someone else? Which group is currently holding you? What is their process for long-term holding (braindance, conventional prison, work program, or something else?) and are they aware of your technomancer abilities. Have you been through trial yet (if any) or are you waiting in jail for your long-term prison sentence?

2) Know yourself. Do you have any other contacts in the judicial system? Any lawyers? Do you have cash available? Do you have access to the global matrix or to a local SAN?

Really, until you properly define the problem, it's impossible to give youa reasonable answer.

[Lok1 :)]

1) Know your enemy. Which group has caught you? Lone Star? Knight Errant? Or someone else? Which group is currently holding you? What is their process for long-term holding (braindance, conventional prison, work program, or something else?) and are they aware of your technomancer abilities. Have you been through trial yet (if any) or are you waiting in jail for your long-term prison sentence?

2) Know yourself. Do you have any other contacts in the judicial system? Any lawyers? Do you have cash available? Do you have access to the global matrix or to a local SAN?

Really, until you properly define the problem, it's impossible to give youa reasonable answer.

I definatly need to talk to my GM more about the prision itself, and BTW I'm not a techno, I'm a hacker.

[Draco18s]

If you look at how fake SINs are made, all of that information needs to be placed into multiple cold-storage backup servers across multiple nations/continents. The abstracted form of ruling that is the Extended Test listed in the book. It doesn't matter if you have most of the stuff pre-programmed, as the computer systems would detect that "John Edwuardo Doe" does not have any dna, fingerprint, height, weight, eye color, ethnicity information and would clear it out of their systems as either an anomoly, or flag it for further watch, expecting that the information was due to a systems intrusion.

I'd like to point out that buying a fake sin, rating 5, is only availability 20. At moderate dicepools you can find a seller and have one in a matter of weeks.

There's a huge disconnect between the time it takes to make one and the time it takes to just walk down the street (metaphorically) and buy one.

[Lok1 :)]

So as long as Loki makes sure he dosn't stand out in those weeks he can just say he's been their a few days and no one that he couldn't get anyone to listen untill this point, at wich point he gets the hell out their and then starts makeing a new name for himself.

[Dumori]

Plot to ruin the rep of the old PCs for leaving to die or try and re-join them as now seen a s much more usefull member of the team you got out all by your self.

[Moirdryd]

There's an old Shadowrun adage that stands the test of time under such circumstances...

Good,
Fast,
Cheap,

Pick two.


Good SIN and inside a week...It'll cost so much it hurts but it can be done and if the forger is really pro he'll have a few on hand just waiting for the Biometric plugins. Just like a few intel angencies do with their fake ID's for emergencies.

[Ascalaphus]

How does your GM feel about the whole thing? And can you explain some more just how you got there? (And what kind of prison you're in, exactly?)

[The Jake]

1. Create new character.
2. Select Judas Negative Quality (working for your old character).
3. ...
4. Profit.

- J.

[nylanfs]

1) Cut a deal with a mega (maybe Ares since you already have a possible in, although is the AI freely working for Ares?)
2) Radical DNA re-sequencing
3) After healing have your temporary character bite it and get the the GM to insert the "new" character into the game expressly to screw the other characters for Ares. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

4) Laugh evilly when everyone realizes the truth.

[Karoline]

yeah in retrospect it wasn't clear enough. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Due Process (Amendements 5 and 14 for federal and state, respectively) are what guarantee the right to representation at your trial spring from, including the nature of the representation etc. obviously the numbers would have changed in the UCAS cons, ofc.

I had meant the 'under the UCAS constitution' to only modify the post-slash language; the one phone call is just a common device in cop shows (although it's proven so persistent that some states have adopted it via regulation) access to outside phone lines is generally considered a due process right as well, although technically it's only a right to have your agent or other executor informed for the purposes of arranging your defense, which the police may do on your behalf instead.

While not technically in the constitution, if you are ever denied your one phone call for in reason, you can argue in court a violation of the 5th amendment which allows for 'equal treatment under the law'. If everyone else is getting a phone call and you don't for any reason, then you aren't being treated equally, and have ground for a suit against the agency that restrained you (Generally the police). This is part of the reason that many states have started adopting 'one call' regulations, to prevent this sort of thing cropping up by mistake.

Now, SR is a dystopia, so such fancy legal wrangling isn't likely to get you much of anywhere, and a lack of papers means you're a SINless, which means that whoever is holding you can more or less do whatever they want. If you have a good fake SIN (or real SIN) you can claim mistaken identity, though that may not get you very far depending on how you where brought in, and especially if they have any DNA evidence against you. They'll just realize you're using a fake or hid your real one, and slap the criminal stuff on it. If it gets erased, then they'll figure out something is up fairly quick.

Your best option likely involves a large number of homemade smoke bombs set off in the cafeteria and inciting a riot. Steal someone's clothing and switch it with your own and pray you can get out of the compound (Injury during the fight is good for leave usually) before the guard wakes up and convinces someone that he isn't you. Biggest problem with this is finding a KOed guard that you could pass as, and then not having anyone recognize you as you. Some chemical to act as a disguise might be good, that or a nicely bruised up face from the fight.

[DigitalOYABUN]

On to practical advice:
* Make allies in prison. You need people to watch your back and aid your plans. Be careful not to get into intrigue too deeply. Consider joining a prison gang with connections to the outside world.
* Figure out how the prison works; blueprints, organization, rules, unwritten rules
* Prison can be a good place to pick up new skills and make contacts - it doesn't have to be a punishment if you play it right.

Lots of good advice in that. If you're in the default setting of Seattle, the Blood Brothers and the Chulos are mentioned at having a lot of pull in prisons, but that'll be affected by your race. Your meta type may also be a factor in looking for a gang. There is also the Vory V Zakone which traditionally keeps ties to prisons.

But ultimately, pick up skills and contacts...or just names. This isnt a negative thing if allowed to play out, you now have the street cred the other PC's in your group can only dream about (till later on anyways).

[kzt]

Just like a few intel angencies do with their fake ID's for emergencies.

Intel agencies can make REAL IDs under a bogus name. It's a whole different scale.

[Karoline]

you now have the street cred the other PC's in your group can only dream about (till later on anyways).

I don't know, isn't having spent time in prison generally bad for your street cred? It means you got caught. J's don't want to hire a runner that has already proven that he can't do the job.

One problem with most methods though is that it is going to take ages to get out, and by that time the group will have moved on quite a bit. Didn't you say it has already been months? Shouldn't the group have undergone several runs by that time?

[kzt]

It depends. It's pretty much essential to being a senior member of many street gangs, it's a sign in an OMG that you are a serious bad guy, not a casual punk, and going to jail and having keept your mouth shut impresses a lot of other criminal groups.

Pretty much everyone who is a serious criminal can expect to spend time inside. If you avoid it it's luck. You do enough burglaries you'll eventually bumble into the cops climbing out a window or something.

[Karoline]

It depends. It's pretty much essential to being a senior member of many street gangs, it's a sign in an OMG that you are a serious bad guy, not a casual punk, and going to jail and having keept your mouth shut impresses a lot of other criminal groups.

Pretty much everyone who is a serious criminal can expect to spend time inside. If you avoid it it's luck. You do enough burglaries you'll eventually bumble into the cops climbing out a window or something.

Street gangs I suppose, but any serious crime group is going to look on jail time as a neutral thing at best, and proof of liability at worse.

And in actuality, most good criminals don't get captured. There have been various studies that suggest that most (95%) 'street crime' is committed by career criminals, basically people who go out and rob or steal or jack cars or whatever for a living. They commit hundreds of crimes without being caught because they know what they're doing. The ones who get caught are stupid or highly unlucky. Robbing a house is exceedingly easy, and if you do it right, even if you get caught you can't be charged with much more than a slap on the wrist.

Still, all that aside, I suppose you're right. Like anything else, having been in jail will look good to some people, and bad to others. The problem here is the 'looks bad' group is going to be much larger than the 'looks good' group.

[Draco18s]

I don't know, isn't having spent time in prison generally bad for your street cred? It means you got caught. J's don't want to hire a runner that has already proven that he can't do the job.

Getting caught ruins your cred, going to prison (and surviving, obviously) increases it. Breaking out is worth bonus points.

Semi-related: the Italian mafia (at least semi-locally to me) is down to about 50* guys, half of which are in jail. They're a bit shy on numbers, but the "being in jail" hasn't really stopped them.

*Or 25 guys, my dad couldn't remember which.

[DigitalOYABUN]

It of course does increase your notoriety, which can act as a negative in some cases, and a positive in other aspects. I can see contacts that run in the corporate world being a little wary of this PC, but the street types would have more respect for. This is of course my opinion.

[Draco18s]

It of course does increase your notoriety, which can act as a negative in some cases, and a positive in other aspects. I can see contacts that run in the corporate world being a little wary of this PC, but the street types would have more respect for. This is of course my opinion.

Astute observation my dear Watson.

[kzt]

Semi-related: the Italian mafia (at least semi-locally to me) is down to about 50* guys, half of which are in jail. They're a bit shy on numbers, but the "being in jail" hasn't really stopped them.

Most mafia guys have gone to jail. It's like killing someone, part of the rite of passage. For example, in 1997 every senior member of the Chicago Outfit had spent time inside, some of them quite a bit of time.

And a huge percentage of the strength of the mafia are hangers on, who are not actually members. There are typically a lot fewer "made men" in a family than popularly thought.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Cut a deal, and rat those bastards out.

Come on Te0dio, no one would make that kind of deal..... *Pfffffft!* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

Keep the Faith

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I'm curious as to where you're getting that number.

Threshold is 32 * the Rating... therefore, at rating 5, it is 160/1 Week... number was off a bit, but still pretty excessive
Page 95, Unwired, Section on Forgery... There is a great little table there...

EDIT: Damn, Already Replied to... teach me not to read all the way before replying...

Keep the Faith