The Face, Now with spirits, hacking, and drones? Options

[Justin]

Hi.

I'm new to Shadowrun, and this is my first character, but I'm looking for a little advice-- to make sure I have a decent concept for my character. Mainly, I want to see that my character is viable, to see if there is a new direction I should explore first, or if I'm missing some key component that might make my character better or fit this concept better. But first, let me tell you about my group (or at least my take on them so far).

One of our guys is an infiltration focused demolition guy. He LIKES explosives, and we might need to talk him into being a little more low-key here and there (read: less or smaller explosions. Most importantly, ones that don't involve our group in the blast radius). He's not exactly the charismatic type, but is friendly enough. He does have a bit of an alcohol addiction though-- so that, combined with large amounts of explosives can be frightening. He is mundane, likes cyberware, but doesn't really have any hacking skills. (So long as he doesn't blow me up, I'm happy, and he's doing his job in my book)

Then we have our mage. He is very quiet, and seems to have his own quirks, but doesn't share openly about what is going on. He seems to have a focus on assensing and magical perception things. I have no idea what kind of spells he likes (he hasn't really used any yet), but has displayed a complete disinterest in summoning and binding spirits. From what I can tell, he seems to avoid combat or confrontation in any way he can-- instead focusing on information gathering. Think "Monk" of the astral world-- he's a little odd, but he figures things out.

We have one other player who will be joining us possibly next session (though it is still a few weeks away). No word on what he will be playing, but last time I talked to him he seemed to be interested in a weapons master approach to things. Lots of guns, I imagine.

Now, for my character, first of all I wanted to make an decent face for the group. Roleplaying wise, he is very charming, friendly, outgoing (human looking) Elf... but downright manipulative in getting what he wants (preferably with everyone still being happy, and none the wiser of it). Though he is very respectful to his team (and contacts.. usually) he gets a certain kick of having someone or something do the job for him in order to make his life easier (ie: getting a job for (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 30,000 from a contact-- but then subcontracting it to another runner, and having him be grinning over getting paid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 20,000 to do it-- no one knowing I was pocketing the difference. Not that I've done this yet... Its just an idea of how he thinks). Social Adept powers made total sense to take (Kinesics 3, Facial Sculpt, and Commanding Voice), and Tailored Pheromones were one of his first purchases, again aiding in any social situations further. First Impression quality also helps in most situations.

But I really didn't have anywhere else to expand in that role as face. So why not try to cover another role the group needs? I know we didn't have a hacker of any sort-- and with a decent commlink, good programs, and my already high mental stats, I could make a decent one. Maybe not the best, but enough to do well in the job. As far as I can tell, other than cash to upgrade programs and my commlink, I really only need the cracking skillgroup and computers skillgroup. Its pretty karma-cheap, isn't it? So pretty much all of my money has gone into my commlink and it's programs.

Now, I still don't have a way to defend myself directly. I have a pistol and a taser mostly for show... But I can't hit anything with it. Simply don't want to walk around unarmed, you see? Good way to get mugged, or have trouble find you. So I was thinking I could pick up a few drones, considering I have the technical aptitude for it, and a good commlink. I can pick up a skillwire for gunnary and the piloting skill for the drone if I want to jump in (since I have Reaction-5) I could make a decent rigger, right? Or just use command and pilot programs. This would be a serious investment in money though-- but not really take much karma to develop. And having a robot army is perfect for my concept. Everyone likes robot armies, I think.

However, before I finished designing my character, I realized I have a Charisma of 7, and a Willpower of 5. I've only used two power points from adept abilities (and I don't really want a bunch of other adept powers. Enhanced skills would be nice-- but I really don't want to cheese my dice pool for social rolls higher than it is for now. I'm already throwing 14-16 dice as it is. And thats just with my social skill group at 1. I still have room to grow in the skill itself). So why not focus on summoning and binding spirits instead? This would fit my character idea completely-- negotiating and calling upon spirits to do my bidding. I love it. So I read up on how summoning works, made myself a mystic adept instead of just an adept, and sought out to find why everyone says elf conjurers are beasts. I think this would make a great use of my high willpower and charisma-- so I bought 4 summoning skill, 6 binding, and 1 banishing.

I know this seems to be a lot to cover with one character, but it all seems to either have a synergy with Charisma and Willpower. And hacking and rigging don't seem to require a lot of karma investment to be good at it-- just have enough money for the gear, along with a couple main skills. Basically, I want to be everything a street samurai isn't. My Strength, Agility, and Body are low (though my reaction is my only great physical attribute) so I would am not the type to get into a firefight or brawl. But everything, concept-wise, is about getting what my character wants, whether is is socially manipulating the situation, hacking to get by things that get in my way (enemy drones, locked doors, security cameras).

I'll post my build in a moment.

[Justin]

Elf Mystic Adept

Attributes:
Body 2, Charisma 7
Agility 2, Intuition 3
Reaction 5, Logic 4
Strength 1, Willpower 5

Edge 1
Essence 5.4
Magic 5 (4) (2 in adept power points, and 2 in spellcasting/conjuring)

Active Skills

Con: 1
Etiquette: 1
Leadership: 1
Negotiation: 1
Intimidation: 1

Computer: 1
Data Search: 1
Hardware: 1
Software: 1
Cybercombat: 4
Electronic Warfare: 4
Hacking: 4

Binding: 6
Banishing: 1
Summoning: 4
Counterspelling: 1

Positive Qualities
Mystic Adept, First Impression, Human Looking

Negative Qualities
Amnesia, In Debt

Adept Powers (2 Power Points)
Kinesics 3, Facial Sculpt, Commanding Voice

Bioware
Tailored Pheromones 3

Commlink
Firewall 6, Response 6
Signal 6, System 6

I've managed to upgrade the sytem, response, signal, and firewall to these levels (they started at 4). I have all the common-use programs at 6. But my hacking programs are between 3 and 4. Working on upgrading those higher now-- since I just upgraded my system to 6. Modded it for hot sim too.

I also have a "backup" commlink which I use as a fake. It has common use programs, but nothing else. In terms of other gear, I have Trodes to connect to VR, upgraded contacts (image link and vision magnification), Glases (thermographic, flare compensation, vision enhancement 3), ear buds (Audio Enhancement 3, Spacial Recognition) and gloves to access AR with. I have a light pistol and a taser gun, so I don't look completely helpless (they don't know I have no idea how to use it). I've also invested in several high rating SIN Cards, with various identities. Also bought a good med-kit.

And in case anyone wanted to know, my matrix persona is an obscure reference from a movie 92 years ago (game time). Elwood J Blues.
"They're not gonna catch us. We're on a mission from God."

Now I know there are a couple flaw I intend to fix right away. I have no perception skill or dodge skill. I plan to change this as soon as possible. But I'm looking for advice on where to go from here. I have no foci yet. I have no spellcasting or spells yet-- but plan to have some basic spells eventually (even if I rely on spirits of Man to cast them better than I can). So I was thinking a power focus would be a good investment. A mentor spirit might be good too-- one that would help my summoning or binding. I have no malware programs or agents for my commlink either-- still fuzzy on how those work. For cyberware or bioware, I'm considering investing in a control rig, simsense booster, or platelet factories and a trauma damper. But those would be much later, when I can afford the lower essence from higher grade 'ware.

I'd love to hear some of your thoughts on if my character concept is viable, and how I should continue to develop from here. Our group needs at least someone to do the hacking, as no one else seems all that interested in it. So I'm basically trying to be the "go-to" guy for things the group may still need. I know I won't be quite as good a summoner as a pure mage-- but I can be close, right? Summoning seven bound spirits to fight for me in a pinch seems to be quite cool-- even if they are only force 3 or 4 for now.

[Ol' Scratch]

That build honestly hurts my brain. It's the epitome of "min-max" with absolutely no adherence to anything remotely related to the term "roleplaying." There's no way I'd even consider allowing a sheet of 1s and 6s into a game I was running, nor would I want to be playing in a game with a character like that alongside my own. Even worse, it's not even min-maxed in the good way; just the very, very most literal way; just a bunch of 1s and 6s. 1s. and. 6s.

Every single social skill at 1? Body 2 and absolutely no way to defend yourself except to scream out "drop your weapons omg" or hoping you can hack into their PAN and shut off their hardware (while praying that their commlinks suck) before they can sneeze in your general direction? No infiltration skills to speak of and only an Agility of 2? And only Edge 1 on top of all that?

Ughhhh. My brain.

Seriously. It's embarrassingly bad. There's not a single redeeming thing about this character. My advice would be to throw it away and start from scratch and actually give him skills at ratings he'd likely have them.

[AngelisStorm]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rollin.gif)

[toturi]

Skills look fine to me, I assume most of the skills at 1 are due to his buying them as part of the skill groups. I think the reason lots of his skills look like 1s and 4s is because he broke the skill groups into their component skills. Otherwise I don't think Cracking Skill Group 4 and Influence Skill Group 1 are remarkable. I would say that my only problem with his skills is the Conjuring Group - I am not sure if he bought Conjuring 1 and then pumped the individual skills or he really bought them seperate. If he bought them all seperately, I'd have no problems.

His attribute spread looks fine too, though I am not sure about Body 2, but I assume he would rather avoid being hit rather than soaking the damage. He didn't even maxed out his Attribute BP allocation, I wouldn't say that he is min-maxing.

[Ascalaphus]

I think it's a bit of a hodgepodge character. Trying to do too many different things.

If I was going to make a face, I'd go lightly on the implants - if people spot those on a scanner, your credibility takes a big hit. Some possibilities:

Hacker/Rigger/Face: go for the scientist look. Take only implants that make you smarter, without being too illegal. Wear scientist clothing, take lots of knowledges and knowsofts. You can infiltrate a lot of places that way.

Social/Physical Adept: learn Masking metamagic as soon as possible. Take social and physical skills; your big power is that you're more dangerous than you appear. You can do things without tools that people aren't counting on.

Technomancer-Face: combine Sprites-High Charisma with social skills to make a face that can infiltrate places; keep your abilities under wraps and use them to do stuff around people's backs.

Mage-Face: works best with a Charisma-oriented Tradition. You can be effective socially and magically, and use those two to complement each other.


But it works better if you don't try to do all those things at the same time. Also, not everything that's allowed in the game system makes for a believable character. As a GM I'd laugh at you if you called yourself a face with Influence Group 1.

Finally, I think every character should have basic teamwork skills: stealth. After all, stealth fails if even one member of the team can't do it.

[Octopiii]

Nerdrage.

Way to be a dick. If that build hurts your brain, you need to exercise it more. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

As for constructive replies, I'm not sure what your tradition is, but one with Spirits of Man would go a long way toward giving your character the flexability you desire. In addition to the super-powered "innate spell" ability you will be choosing, Spirits of Man have almost every single power you'd want in a spirit right off the bat.

He is going to suck early on, but once you start putting points into skills he'll start to pay off, and the ability to summon spirits can compensate for a lot of things - Concealment certainly helps with stealth abilities, for example.

One point of concern: Commanding Voice is (Adept Magic Points) + (Leadership). You spent .5pp to get a power you're only rolling 3 dice with.

I think you can still be the go-to guy if you "subcontract" hacking - get an agent. Then use the freed up BP to get your Influence group up to 4.

Oh, and banishing is useless, unfortunately, especially at 1. May as well save the bp.

You have no spells since you have no spellcasting. I'd put the bp from banishing into Spellcasting at the least - there are just too many good spells to pass up, even with a low dp. A Power Foci would help this guy out immensely.

[Nightfalke]

A couple thoughts:

One of our guys is an infiltration focused demolition guy. *snip* He does have a bit of an alcohol addiction though-- so that, combined with large amounts of explosives can be frightening.

Does he also have an eye patch and speak in a scottish accent?

Our group needs at least someone to do the hacking, as no one else seems all that interested in it. So I'm basically trying to be the "go-to" guy for things the group may still need.

You don't "need" a PC hacker. You can always rent one, if someone has a hacker contact, for all your hacking needs. With enough infiltration and con skills, you can get into anywhere without hacking anything except some poor secretary's head.

So I say, advance him how you like. If the other players aren't going to even attempt to address any "deficiencies" in the group, I don't see why you should sacrifice your character's abilities and your fun if they aren't going to try the same.

[Tiny Deev]

As long as you don't become a "Jack of all trades, Master of none"

[Ol' Scratch]

Way to be a dick.

<shrugs>

Anyone who thinks that's even a remotely functional character -- especially as a Face, of which this thread is about -- is only slightly more deficient than that character is. And those coddling him and trying to convince him that he actually does have a viable Face character on his hands are the real dicks. Especially considering his zero chance of surviving even the most trivial fight without GM fiat. And if GM fiat is going to be used, why even bother with stats in the first place? Seriously: Edge 1, Body 2, Agility 2, no Perception, no Dodge, no Gymnastics Dodge, and no Reaction boost is a recipe for instant-death. Considering he has things like Facial Sculpt, Commanding Voice and Tailored Pheromones, he's clearly not planning on cowering in a fortified lifestyle and doing everything through VR, either, which means he's going to be painting someone's wall red at the first sign of trouble.

Hell, he even has two of the most vapid Negative Qualities in the game. I'm surprised Incompetent: Pilot Exotic Vehicle (Pogostick) isn't listed there, too.

[OneTrikPony]

Don't sugarcoat it Dr.Funk.
Tell the new guy how you really feel. It's important to let every new dumpshocker know just how miserable they're going to be every time they come here for help advice or any kind of moral support.

Justin:
Welcome to Dumpshock dude

One question? What do you want this character to be? If you want a face concentrate on being a face first. If you think you'll have fun being your groups' Stop-gap-measure than you're on the right track. But as a Face character I don't think you've spent nearly enought BP on that specialty.

Also, chek out all the spells you might get to help you with your specialty. If you don't have the magic book get it or at least borow one for a bit. The spells Fassion and Makover come to mind immediately.

In all I think the Face archetype might be the only one that the Mystic Adept set up might work for. So I think you have a good concept.

Finaly, DO NOT FORGET ABOUT CONTACTS. As a face it's not what you know it's who you know.

[Ol' Scratch]

Don't sugarcoat it Dr.Funk.
Tell the new guy how you really feel. It's important to let every new dumpshocker know just how miserable they're going to be every time they come here for help advice or any kind of moral support.

My advice would be to throw it away and start from scratch and actually give him skills at ratings he'd likely have them.

I managed to do both in my first post, but thanks for the advice anyway.

Oh, and if his GM doesn't give him similar advice upon seeing that sheet -- or at the very least decide to start using some of the optional rules such as max hits equal to Skill x 2 -- he deserves the same kind of response, too.

The part I don't get is that Justin is clearly intelligent and very well-spoken. Yet neither he nor most of the coddling types in this thread are able to realize just how awful and nonviable a character this is. Mr. Burns would be more survivable in a fight or capable of sneaking through an office building than this borderline cripple would.

[Kagetenshi]

Finally, I think every character should have basic teamwork skills: stealth. After all, stealth fails if even one member of the team can't do it.

This is, as I've said elsewhere, only true if you expect the team to sneak around as a pack. I'm not saying that this Face can necessarily do it, but the Face can often just walk in the front door and ask where so-and-so's office is for the meeting later on, then duck off the path to start doing their thing later. Likewise, heavy combat characters can wait until the proper moment, then reenact the lobby scene from The Matrix.

Stealth is useful, but for many roles it's nonessential.

~J

[CollateralDynamo]

Mmmm, some forum posters lack social tact so they post on forums....I suppose when people ask for advice, it is generally very helpful to say "you suck, gtfo". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

Anyways, Justin, you need a believable history for this guy. You are a hacker mage face? That seems an incredibly unlikely combination. Also, your dice pools are fairly low for all the tasks you really want. I know you get uber bonus dice to social skills, your pool is what, 14 +2 on first impression....but think about it, if you are really a manipulative bastard, you must have practiced it. Your skills should probably be higher then one. You could even save some bp by dropping that charisma a point and maybe picking up a spell or two.

Your commanding voice options seems an odd choice, when it won't work out too well for you. Also, while hacking and rigging, remember, almost everything is skill + software. So unless you are running a house rule, being really smart doesn't help you a lick with hacking. Just something to keep in mind!

[Ol' Scratch]

Mmmm, some forum posters lack social tact so they post on forums....I suppose when people ask for advice, it is generally very helpful to say "you suck, gtfo". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

I never said that. I said the character sucked and he should start over and actually design one that can function in a real game rather than being a very poor attempt at min-maxing. Which it is. Any character who runs around with a skill of 1 in their primary skill set -- let alone all of the skills in the skillset for that role -- should be thrown out the door without batting an eye.

Of course, your recommendation is to basically drop Logic to 1, too. So... c'est la vie I guess.

Oh, and he took Amnesia so that he doesn't have to worry about any kind of background to explain any of it. But at least his icon looks like Elwood Blues. Roleplaying!

[Sixgun_Sage]

The character is trying to do too much, if you want to be a mystic adept focus on spellcasting with maybe a few dice in counterspelling, but going straight-up adept/face/tech is more survivable. If you want to be a face/rigger/hacker use commands, you can get the appropriate softs from a cracked code dealer and maintain them yourself and go with a couple of moderately high quality drones rather than a swarm of crap-bots. Use the points you save doing the above to raise your core skill selection. If he is going to be engaging in combat through drones on command you can probably justify a couple of negative qualities related around fear of combat. Maybe drop the Amnesia, that is the #1 flaw for annoying gm's, it basically says "I didn't want to build a backstory so here's a random pile of numbers" and that is a bad thing. Maybe your character was the scrawny, nerdy elf kid that was good with electronics who, when he Awakened gained new confidence in himself and a flair for social maneuvering. You decided to follow a hacker friend into the shadows and despite being bad in a fight you survived the shadows, he found himself a desk job. Now a little later in your career you are getting some drones together to cover your back so you won't be as big a liability to your team and to keep the nice clean front you show your neighbors (and maybe your boss, Day Job is a wonderfull quality when used right) a little further away from the shadows.

[Neraph]

QQ QQ QQ.

More Pew Pew! You should stop with the de-structive criticism and try some con-structive criticism, aside from "GO BAKK TO DWARWING BO-AHRD!!11!!ONE!"

For example:
To the OP - I have played characters with a body of less than 4. It does not work. 4 seems to be the magic number - I would never go lower than this again. Skills at 1 are virtually useless. Manabolt/Stunbolt are better alternatives to Banishing, nearly all the time. So is Mind Control.

Invest in some stealth abilities, namely Infiltration if none else. I could go even only to 2, and specialize it for urban. Grab some Ruthenium Polymer clothing (if you're just using Core book, then that means the Chameleon Suit), and wear it under a suit, but make the suit easy to remove. If the sheep hits the fan, drop off your clothes and activate the Ruth-Polymers - this causes the enemies to have to spot you (possibly), and gives them a -4 to ranged attacks against you besides. Gas/smoke grenades help this immensely.

Also, Gymastics is amazing, especially specialized for Gymastic Dodge. This or take a couple ranks of Dodge specialized for Ranged.

EDIT: Also, you can't buy a Response/Signal of 6 at chargen unless you spend a Restricted Gear. Starting build characters are limited to Availability 12, and those are Availability 16. Also, grab a Sattelite Link instead of a larger signal, carry it on your person (because it never says it needs to be set up to work), and slave it to your commlink.

You need Counterspelling higher - right now it's almost useless. You also should think about actually picking up Spellcasting and some spells.

My best advice is to drop the comm-skills (Electronic group and Hacking group), siphon some of those abilities into your Social skills, and grab a high-loyalty Technomancer friend. When you need a hacker, call him up, use your Negotiation, and get him to loan you the services of a decent rating Cracking Sprite. This is very effective.

[Nightfalke]

Maybe drop the Amnesia, that is the #1 flaw for annoying gm's, it basically says "I didn't want to build a backstory so here's a random pile of numbers" and that is a bad thing.

Pfft. As a GM, I LOVE Amnesia. Gives me free reign to completely go nuts with my meta-plot and have me some crazy-go-nuts type of fun. Do I want to have a great dragon in my story? Amnesia! He made a deal with one, and forgot about it! Do I want to have a pair of high powered street sams periodically mess with the runners? Amnesia! He's got some outstanding favors to the Yakuza that he forgot about, and they are coming to collect. Do I want to spirits coming out of the woodwork attempting to kidnap him? Amnesia! His wife, who happens to be a Shaman, is trying to get him to come back home with the bread and cigarettes he went out to get before he lost his memory!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

[Neraph]

His wife, who happens to be a Shaman, is trying to get him to come back home with the bread and cigarettes he went out to get before he lost his memory!

heh heh. Duets.

[Sixgun_Sage]

Pfft. As a GM, I LOVE Amnesia. Gives me free reign to completely go nuts with my meta-plot and have me some crazy-go-nuts type of fun. Do I want to have a great dragon in my story? Amnesia! He made a deal with one, and forgot about it! Do I want to have a pair of high powered street sams periodically mess with the runners? Amnesia! He's got some outstanding favors to the Yakuza that he forgot about, and they are coming to collect. Do I want to spirits coming out of the woodwork attempting to kidnap him? Amnesia! His wife, who happens to be a Shaman, is trying to get him to come back home with the bread and cigarettes he went out to get before he lost his memory!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

Ok, yeah, it works for a certain type of game and therefor for game masters that run it. The problem being it can really quickly devolve into being railroaded down a storyline that has little to do with what the players want. Not saying that's always the case, just another concern, I basically don't allow any amnesia qualities in my games for this reason even if they are in the rules.

[Sixgun_Sage]

Pfft. As a GM, I LOVE Amnesia. Gives me free reign to completely go nuts with my meta-plot and have me some crazy-go-nuts type of fun. Do I want to have a great dragon in my story? Amnesia! He made a deal with one, and forgot about it! Do I want to have a pair of high powered street sams periodically mess with the runners? Amnesia! He's got some outstanding favors to the Yakuza that he forgot about, and they are coming to collect. Do I want to spirits coming out of the woodwork attempting to kidnap him? Amnesia! His wife, who happens to be a Shaman, is trying to get him to come back home with the bread and cigarettes he went out to get before he lost his memory!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

Ok, yeah, it works for a certain type of game and therefor for game masters that run it. The problem being it can really quickly devolve into being railroaded down a storyline that has little to do with what the players want. Not saying that's always the case, just another concern, I basically don't allow any amnesia qualities in my games for this reason even if they are in the rules.

[Sixgun_Sage]

Pfft. As a GM, I LOVE Amnesia. Gives me free reign to completely go nuts with my meta-plot and have me some crazy-go-nuts type of fun. Do I want to have a great dragon in my story? Amnesia! He made a deal with one, and forgot about it! Do I want to have a pair of high powered street sams periodically mess with the runners? Amnesia! He's got some outstanding favors to the Yakuza that he forgot about, and they are coming to collect. Do I want to spirits coming out of the woodwork attempting to kidnap him? Amnesia! His wife, who happens to be a Shaman, is trying to get him to come back home with the bread and cigarettes he went out to get before he lost his memory!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

Ok, yeah, it works for a certain type of game and therefor for game masters that run it. The problem being it can really quickly devolve into being railroaded down a storyline that has little to do with what the players want. Not saying that's always the case, just another concern, I basically don't allow any amnesia qualities in my games for this reason even if they are in the rules.

[Neraph]

Ok, yeah, it works for a certain type of game and therefor for game masters that run it. The problem being it can really quickly devolve into being railroaded down a storyline that has little to do with what the players want. Not saying that's always the case, just another concern, I basically don't allow any amnesia qualities in my games for this reason even if they are in the rules.

Triplepost! Wewt!

[Sixgun_Sage]

Triplepost! Wewt!

I'm just leaving them there, to proclaim my awesomeness. Now where's my Prize?

[Nightfalke]

Ok, yeah, it works for a certain type of game and therefor for game masters that run it. The problem being it can really quickly devolve into being railroaded down a storyline that has little to do with what the players want. Not saying that's always the case, just another concern, I basically don't allow any amnesia qualities in my games for this reason even if they are in the rules.

Heh. If they didn't want bad things to happen to them, they shouldn't take negative qualities. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

But seriously...I make sure my players know that if they take Enemy or Amnesia then they WILL have it come up in the game and they WILL have to deal with it.