Do you have to activate Improved Reflexes? Options

[Ranger]

Do you have to activate the Improved Reflexes adept power, or is it always active? The description in SR4A states, "This power increases the speed at which you react, just like wired reflexes." The description essentially indicates that Improved Reflexes works the same as wired reflexes, and wired reflexes can be turned on or off.

If Improved Reflexes is always on, does the adept move unnaturally quickly, or is the adept able to control his movement so that no one can tell that he has the Improved Reflexes power?

[djinni]

Do you have to activate the Improved Reflexes adept power, or is it always active? The description in SR4A states, "This power increases the speed at which you react, just like wired reflexes." The description essentially indicates that Improved Reflexes works the same as wired reflexes, and wired reflexes can be turned on or off.

If Improved Reflexes is always on, does the adept move unnaturally quickly, or is the adept able to control his movement so that no one can tell that he has the Improved Reflexes power?

we've always given the adept no social negatives due to the increased cost, and "its magic" feel, they are simply faster have always been and are naturally able to adjust when needed. it turns on and off but its not a "switch" like the mundane version and they do not have to have an action that round in order to activate it, similar to the synaptic accelerator.
I don't have any page references this time as this is the feel of the game rather than the RAW.

[Ranger]

Thank you for your input, djinni. That sounds reasonable to me.

[CanadianWolverin...]

I always kinda imagined that for a an adept with the power, it was that they did have the control to keep themselves from being herky-jerky while the world around them appeared to move in slow-mo in accordance with what level of the adept power they had. I get that feel from how I read movement rules, where even if you have more IPs, you still move the same distance, unless you use the free/simple action and roll the dice, and just divide it by the number of IPs you get. (ex: 3 IPs, 10 m, 3.33 m per IP) I get the impression the amount of time used stays the same too and gets divided up by number of IPs as well. They must look like all of a sudden they hit the nitro or something.

I hope I got that right.

[Karoline]

I always kinda imagined that for a an adept with the power, it was that they did have the control to keep themselves from being herky-jerky while the world around them appeared to move in slow-mo in accordance with what level of the adept power they had. I get that feel from how I read movement rules, where even if you have more IPs, you still move the same distance, unless you use the free/simple action and roll the dice, and just divide it by the number of IPs you get. (ex: 3 IPs, 10 m, 3.33 m per IP) I get the impression the amount of time used stays the same too and gets divided up by number of IPs as well. They must look like all of a sudden they hit the nitro or something.

I hope I got that right.

You sounded like you did... then you mentioned nitro, which makes no sense.

Two given characters will move the same distance regardless of if they have 1 or 4 IP. Even if they burn action sprinting they will move the same distance. The person with 4 IPs only increases his movement speed for that IP. Next IP he has to burn another action to keep a higher speed, otherwise he drops back down to normal movement speed.

The short version is IPs have no benefit in regards to movement, and often make you slower in a way, because someone with 1 IP moves 10m an IP, but someone with 4 IPs only moves 2.5m an IP.

Edit: Oh, and to answer the original question, I have to agree with the others. It can be turned on/off at will, but turning on happens so fast that it occurs as a non-action and before initiative is rolled, even if the character is surprised.

[Ol' Scratch]

You can turn it on and off at will, but there's no real point in keeping it off. Adept powers are effectively a natural part of you. You have no more trouble controlling yourself with Improved Reflexes as you do with Improved Strength or Improved Sense: Thermographic Vision. It's not a piece of foreign hardware that's boosting your natural reflexes, and it's not some drug making you twitchy. For all intents and purposes, your Reaction and Initiative scores are that high naturally. Which, incidently, is why you the Karma cost for improving an attribute boosted by an adept power at its improved value. If you have Agility 3 and Improved Agility 2, you count as having Agility 5 and have to pay the price for Agility 6 when you go and use your Karma to improve your Agility 3 to 4. The reason is because as far as everything other than the semantic notes on your character sheet, you really do have a natural Agility of 5 that you're improving to 6.

[Ranger]

Looks like a consensus, so I'm definitely going with what everyone said. Thank you, everyone, for your input.

[Neraph]

You can turn it on and off at will, but there's no real point in keeping it off. Adept powers are effectively a natural part of you. You have no more trouble controlling yourself with Improved Reflexes as you do with Improved Strength or Improved Sense: Thermographic Vision. It's not a piece of foreign hardware that's boosting your natural reflexes, and it's not some drug making you twitchy. For all intents and purposes, your Reaction and Initiative scores are that high naturally. Which, incidently, is why you the Karma cost for improving an attribute boosted by an adept power at its improved value. If you have Agility 3 and Improved Agility 2, you count as having Agility 5 and have to pay the price for Agility 6 when you go and use your Karma to improve your Agility 3 to 4. The reason is because as far as everything other than the semantic notes on your character sheet, you really do have a natural Agility of 5 that you're improving to 6.

The point of keeping it off is otherwise you're trailing an astral signature everywhere you go. It'd be like smearing a line of paint behind you to anyone with Assensing.

[CanadianWolverin...]

You sounded like you did... then you mentioned nitro, which makes no sense.

Er, how can I have it make sense... Distance / Time = Speed, correct? So, we know the distance covered and the amount of time, the one clear variable to me is the number of simple actions a character gets out of their IPs, so the more IPs when a the sammy or adept starts taking actions, the faster those actions appear to be in comparison to fewer IPs. So, one second they appear act at 1 IP and the next thing you know they are doing x2, x3, or x4 that, it strikes me visually in my head as suddenly things get a bit blurry like you just hit the nitro in Need for Speed Underground and Fast & Furious or that now their dodging or shooting looks like something out of The Matrix or Wanted. *shrug*

I also imagine various matrix actions and stuff get this sorta sudden boost to them as well, at least in my imagination while visualizing IPs.

[Jack Kain]

Spells leave an astral signature that can be tracked but most adept powers do not. You can trace a fireball because something was left behind. The mana in the area was altered to create that ball of fire so a mage traces it back to the caster.

With say Improved Reflexes. Nothing if left behind the effects were always on you. A foci for example can't be used to track you unless the tracker finds you foci. If you look under Astral Tracking you'll notice adept powers are not listed.
In addition astral signatures last for a number for hours equal to the force with adept powers last.
An Adepts signature only comes up really in two cases. (not counting mystic adepts). One someone finds your foci. Its linked to you thus they can track you down with it. Second the mage is looking right at you. Thus they can memorize your astral signature and identify you later.

[Ol' Scratch]

Nah, adept powers leave an astral signature when used, too. The adept is still manipulating magic, they just do it innately whereas magicians do it overtly.

[Trigger]

Nah, adept powers leave an astral signature when used, too. The adept is still manipulating magic, they just do it innately whereas magicians do it overtly.

Actually, no.

SR4 Pg. 182:
"Magical skills and abilities produce an astral signature on anything affected by them, which is detectable using assensing."

Adept Powers only affect the adepts themselves, so are only visible on the adept.

Also, to directly counteract your statement that they are simply manipulation spells on the adept:

SR4 Pg. 182:
"Spells cast upon an individual show up as a separate aura surrounding that person for the duration of the spell. Once a spell has been rendered permanent, the aura is no longer present."

Adept powers would be considered permanent, since they can't be dispelled and are not being sustained (granted a spell that an adept is sustaing via the Living Focus power would be visible because they are spells), and thusly would not be visible within the adept's aura.

[Jack Kain]

Nah, adept powers leave an astral signature when used, too. The adept is still manipulating magic, they just do it innately whereas magicians do it overtly.

To add to Triggers comments.

An Astral Signatures only last a number of hours equal to the force of the effect. Adept powers even ones that affect others directly such as voice control or commanding voice, have no force. Whats no x force.

Now an Adept still has a signature which can be used to identify him. This is where a adept can benefit from Astral Chameleon or Flexible signature by making their signature harder to detect or show up differently. They don't gain as much advantage as a magician out of those perks but they still have their uses.

[Dakka Dakka]

The short version is IPs have no benefit in regards to movement, and often make you slower in a way, because someone with 1 IP moves 10m an IP, but someone with 4 IPs only moves 2.5m an IP.

This is true as long as the person does not take free actions to sprint. There is no rule limiting this use to one per turn. Thus someone with more IPs can do this more often and so increase his running distance per turn.
And yes I know even unaugmented dedicated sprinters are ridiculously quick.

[Karoline]

This is true as long as the person does not take free actions to sprint. There is no rule limiting this use to one per turn. Thus someone with more IPs can do this more often and so increase his running distance per turn.
And yes I know even unaugmented dedicated sprinters are ridiculously quick.

No, because what happens is that, lets say that you move 10m a combat turn.

With 1 IP you do a sprint, roll your dice, get two hits (or whatever) and increase it to 12m a combat turn. You then move 12m in your IP which is an entire combat turn.

If someone with 2 IP decides to move and sprint, then his base speed is also 10m, then he sprints in his first IP which raises his movement to 12m a turn until his next action. So he then moves 6m on his IP (Because each IP you move (movement/IP)m), and then his next IP comes around and his movement drops back down to 10m a turn. He then has to sprint again to move another 6m this IP instead of only being able to move 5m. So in the end, even though he uses more sprint actions, he moves the exact same distance.

And yeah, he does kinda go nitro as far as how fast his trigger finger, his sword arm moves, and how quickly he dodges are concerned. When you said nitro I thought you meant like running.

[Dakka Dakka]

If someone with 2 IP decides to move and sprint, then his base speed is also 10m, then he sprints in his first IP which raises his movement to 12m a turn until his next action. So he then moves 6m on his IP (Because each IP you move (movement/IP)m), and then his next IP comes around and his movement drops back down to 10m a turn. He then has to sprint again to move another 6m this IP instead of only being able to move 5m. So in the end, even though he uses more sprint actions, he moves the exact same distance.

Could you show me where in the rules it says that it works that way? AFAIK you can increase the distance travelled in a combat turn by using a simple action to sprint. Each hit on the test increases the distance by 2m. There is no mention of dividing this distance by the number of IPs the character has.

[Karoline]

Alright, page 138 SR4. Should be somewhere in the combat section under movement for the SR4A folks.

There are two types of movement: walking and running.
Characters may move at one of these two rates during each
Initiative Pass, or they may choose to remain stationary. To
walk or run, the character must declare it during the Declare
Actions part of his Action Phase. Walking does not take up any
action, but running requires a Free Action.
Once a mode of movement has been declared, the character
moves in that mode until his next Action Phase.

Th e movement rates for each metatype are noted on the
Movement Table. Th is rate is the distance the character moves by
that method per Combat Turn (not per Initiative Pass).
If a character mixed his modes of movement during a
Combat Turn and it becomes important to know exactly how
far the character moved in a particular pass, simply divide his
Movement Rate by the number of passes in that turn.

Characters may attempt to increase their running distance
by spending a Simple Action (rather than just a Free Action to
run) and making a Running + Strength Test. Each hit adds 2
meters to their Running Rate.

Metatype Walking Rate (m/turn) Running Rate (m/turn)
Humans, elves, orks 10 25
Dwarfs 8 20
Trolls 15 35

So, we have the fact that you have to declare your movement type every single action phase, meaning that it resets every single action phase. We then have that to find your distance moved in an IP, you take your distance moved per turn, and divide it by the number of IPs you have. Then we skip down and find that running rate (achieved by using a free action to run) is a distance moved per turn figure.

Then we go back up to point 3, which is that using a sprint action increases your running rate (Distance moved per turn, not per IP) by 2m per hit.

So with 2 IPs, on your first IP you declare your movement type (Walking, running, or standing still) if you run you may spend simple actions to increase the running rate by 2m per hit. Because you have multiple IPs, to get your per IP movement rate, you take your per turn movement rate and divide it by number of IP (2 in this case). You then move up to your per IP movement rate. Then you get to your next action phase, and your movement is reset. You then have to go through the whole process again.

So basically you go: Okay, I'm spending a free action to run, thus I move 25m/turn. Then I'm going to spend a simple action to sprint, and I got 2 hits, so I move 29m/turn. Then I have 2 IP, so I have to divide (29m/turn)/(2IP/turn) = 14.5m/IP. I then move my 14.5m and am done with my IP. New IP comes around and I get reset to null movement. I then have to spend a free action to run again, bringing me to 25m/turn movement. I can then either not spend actions to spring and thus move only 12.5m this IP, or I can sprint again, get two hits, and move 14.5m again.

[Dakka Dakka]

The point is that By RAW the Movement Rate is divided by the IPs not the actual speed. Any speed above the Walking Rate is considered Running and thus whether someone sprints in a certain IP or not does not change his movement mode and as such the division does not apply and each hit adds a full 2m to the distance/turn.

[koogco]

Good points to suggest otherwise have been made, however i would still rule (as a GM) that you get the standart running rate, and then you can use a simple action each IP to try and get a few meters ekstra in that initiative pass.
Cause whatever the rules say, wired/synaptics/whatever allows you to move your limbs faster, and the biggest hamper on running speed is how fast you can move your legs.

[Karoline]

The point is that By RAW the Movement Rate is divided by the IPs not the actual speed. Any speed above the Walking Rate is considered Running and thus whether someone sprints in a certain IP or not does not change his movement mode and as such the division does not apply and each hit adds a full 2m to the distance/turn.

You need to stop using a word that doesn't exist in the rules. There is no 'speed' in the game. Per turn movement rate is divided by number of IPs you have, sprint increases your per turn movement rate, and thus is divided as well.

And no, nothing in the rules says it allows you to move your limbs faster, it simply allows you to react faster, that is the time between something happening and you doing something in response to it goes down. So you can shoot more because you can react to the previous shot having happened faster (In other words, you can't take your second shot until you've taken your first, which means you have to wait for confirmation of your first before you can pull the trigger for the second. When you have increased reflexes, the time between the first shot being fired, and your finger reacting to squeeze the trigger a second time goes down.)

So unless you can find something that says that anything that increases your IPs makes you physically move faster, it shouldn't cause you to be able to out jog a world class sprinter.

where everything around her seems to move in slow motion.

Not "Where she moves twice as fast as before"

[koogco]

When you have increased reflexes, the time between the first shot being fired, and your finger reacting to squeeze the trigger a second time goes down.)

I do not aggree here, an experienced shadowrunner knows exactly how long it takes to fire a shot, likewise, you can do other things, like reloading your gun, throw a grenade and fire two shots in much shorter time than other people, those things are not nessecarily reactions, they might aswell be "planned" from the start of the combat round.
Now I am not saying that you are wrong, it does indeed seem that the rules wants you to devide sprint aswell, however i find this strange considering how they seem to allow quicker movement of limbs. As such, I still allow players to do the simple action each initiative pass, without deviding their nethits.
This also makes for less math without all that deviding.

[Karoline]

I agree, there is some oddity in the increased reflexes if you don't consider it meaning to actually move quicker, but I think you underestimate what the world seeming to move in slow motion means. Imagine what it would be like if every second felt like 10. Even if you couldn't move any quicker, you'd be able to consider every action for 10 times as long and be able to aim 10 times as quick.

I'm sure that you -could- throw two grenades in 3 seconds for instance, but it would be horrendously inaccurate because you wouldn't have nearly as much mental time to consider the throw or aim it or anything.

[pbangarth]

There are several adept powers that affect something other than the adept herself, and therefore can be considered to leave an astral signature outside of the adept. Here are some:

Animal Empathy
Commanding Voice
Distance Strike
Enthralling Performance
Inertia Strike
Killing Hands
Kinesics (?)
Linguistics
Living focus (but other effects may be more noticeable)
Missile Mastery (?)
Nerve Strike
Pain Relief
Penetrating Strike
Power Throw
Quick Draw
Smashing Blow

[Karoline]

I'd have to disagree with some of those.

Linguistics only affects you, as does Kinesics. And many of those others could be viewed as either affecting the user or the object. Like nerve strike could just be an advanced ability to aim for nerves as opposed to doing anything magical to the target.

[Ranger]

I'd have to disagree with some of those.

Linguistics only affects you, as does Kinesics. And many of those others could be viewed as either affecting the user or the object. Like nerve strike could just be an advanced ability to aim for nerves as opposed to doing anything magical to the target.

The description of Nerve Strike states, "This power allows an adept to inflict a paralyzing attack, temporarily crippling an opponent, by targeting vital nerve clusters." That sounds more like you become able to target the nerves, rather than you are now able to affect the nerves by magically altering the target. So, I agree with Karoline.

I also say that Quick Draw does not affect an object, but rather it affects only you. You become able to quick draw a larger variety of weapons. You do not magically alter those weapons so that you can quick draw them.