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> Question re: roles needed to be filled in a military / mercenary squad, Want to make sure I am not forgetting anything important!
Corgak
post Nov 26 2009, 06:33 AM
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So I am beginning ground work for an episodic, multi-session game to act as filler between other games. The idea I was going to run with was that the players are all in the same squad in a mercenary company. So that I can give the players roles that need to be filled so that they can plan their characters accordingly, I want to make sure I have a complete list of roles that need to be filled (and obviously one character can fill multiple roles).

The ones that immediately come to mind are: squad leader, heavy weapons, sniper, bne, hacking, awakened, demolitions, vehicle piloting, vehicle gunnery, and drone rigging.

PS I got the idea for this from another thread, thought it was a brilliant idea, and shamelessly borrowed it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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The Jake
post Nov 26 2009, 06:48 AM
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Medic.

- J.
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Corgak
post Nov 26 2009, 06:49 AM
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QUOTE (The Jake @ Nov 26 2009, 12:48 AM) *
Medic.

- J.


Ahh yes, thank you!
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Ascalaphus
post Nov 26 2009, 07:25 AM
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http://everything2.com/title/how+to+proper...+insertion+team

I always liked that article.
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Headshot_Joe
post Nov 26 2009, 07:45 AM
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Kinda depends on how many players you have... Also depends on what they're gonna be doing? A covert team probably doesn't need a HWG, whereas an assault team probably doesn't need a stealthy ninja-type.

For a simple, four player, get-shit-done team I'd go with:
Warmage Squad Leader (Magical and Charismatic...kinda goes hand-in-hand): Leader and magical support, maybe even healing?
LRSG (Long Range Support Guy): Sniper and Ranged Demolitions (Rockets'n'such)
HWG: Obviously HW, and Demo(gurnades), maybe some boom-sticks and other CQC stuff, and bullet sponge.
TGWADATW(The Guy Who Actually Does All The Work): Hacker, Rigger(this covers vehicles), Medic, Demo(plastique), Lockpick, everything else that is essential. Skill groups are his friends.
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kzt
post Nov 26 2009, 08:26 AM
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Assuming that it's a squad as part of a larger unit a squad doesn't need a sniper. A sniper is a precision shooter, if an infantry squad can see them they can kill them another way.

What you need varies, but typically you need a leader, some sort of automatic support weapon, some sort of area/indirect support weapon, and some guys to carry ammo for and keep people from sneaking up on the support weapons guys. Under certain circumstances an AT weapon/strongpoint defeat guy might be used.

Medics are typically assigned at platoon level, snipers are typically battalion assets. You might have a "marksman" at the platoon level, but he isn't a 'sniper'.
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Cthulhudreams
post Nov 26 2009, 02:07 PM
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Paratroopers sometimes have a 'sniper' at the squad/section level. Paratroopers are a bit closer to the SR norm because the units tend to be structured to be a bit more self reliant.

As for medics - everyone is supposed to be able to do first aid, and the procedure is 'kill the bad guys, do first aid, then find a real doctor'

However with the vehicles and stuff, Mech infantry. Anyway the soviets had in a mech infantry squad

1 leader/vehicle commander
1 driver/mechanic
1 asst squad leader/gunner
1 machine gunner
1 grenadier
4 riflemen

Also had a anti tank rocket launcher on hand, and the 'grenadier' would operate the RPG-7 so beloved by Insurgents today. The riflemen would have 2 underslung grenade launchers between them - and some squads had 2 machine gunners and 1 less riflemen.


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Marwynn
post Nov 26 2009, 04:45 PM
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You need to clarify your "awakened" section a bit.

There are spell slingers, adepts, summoners, mystic adepts, etc. You'll want Astral Backup, so if you have an Adept of some kind with you, you'll need a Magician as well. I have to say that a Summoner would be far more beneficial overall. With one or two bound spirits your team just becomes that much more powerful and flexible.

And yes, everyone must be armed and capable with guns of some sort. Plus, a Magician can be the Medic too. But that's a lot of eggs in one fragile basket.

Squad leader, heavy weapons specialist, medic, astral support, technical specialist, rigger, scout, demolitions expert, logistics (ie, mule).

Don't forget the tacsofts!
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Snow_Fox
post Nov 26 2009, 05:10 PM
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From the original list you can combine some of them. Rigging/hacking go together well as both can sit back from the team entering a building. Similarly rigging/sniper both sit back from the main line and wait to act, whether with a Ranger ARMS or a rotodrone. I'd also mix electronic/b&E/demo and medic in one person. The meidc skills are gratis but otherwise their people who get you in with picking a lock, hacking it, breaking it or just blowing the whoel door off the fragging hinges.

All team members hsould have basic skills in shooting, unarmed combat, evasion and athletics. I'm trying to remember the particulars but I think SEAL and SAS teams work in groups of 4 where each man has a special skill I think it's a commander, communications, demolition and medic. It would also probably be that some teams are highly specialized. with all due respect to Hollywood (ha) I suspect you'd get teams that speialize in aquatic work and some for planes etc. sure htey can all handle hte basics but teams might be more psieclaized for a need. : We need someone on that boat, Team 7 is the best for that.

RL the worst losses suffered by the Navy SEaLs came in Panama when they were forced to work in a larger force than their usual cells and sent head on at an airfield. They were well outside of their comfort zone and in a situation-frontal assualt-that was not their style, but their commanders were over ruled by govenrment buearocrats. This was the action refered to by Steven Seagal's character when he confronted Tommy Lee Jones in the first "Under Siege" film.

Our own teams usually have a decker/rigger mix. A spell slinger and 2 samurai, extras then are more gillettes or a spy-ad or another long ranger sniper/rigger.
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kzt
post Nov 26 2009, 05:18 PM
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A squad isn't a stand-alone unit. It's about the smallest tactical element but it operates as an integral part of a platoon. It's not self-supporting or designed for independent operation. It operates under fairly close control and direction of the platoon leadership.

It is a small part of larger unit, and every squad is pretty much like every other squad and depends on higher levels for more specialized people and gear. If something isn't needed pretty much every time a squad goes into a fight it won't be in a squad.

For example, unless pretty much every mission requires someone in every squad to be a demolition expert there won't be a demolition expert as an integral part of a squad. if a demo expert is needed for a particular mission an engineer who is a demo expert will be attached and the squad leader will be responsible to get the engineer to the right place and time.
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Mercer
post Nov 26 2009, 05:52 PM
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It depends on how the unit is structured, but I would assume the larger mercenary companies are structured pretty much like standard military. That is, most of your fire teams and squads make up your platoons. You're special weapons people (machine gunners, mortarmen and so on) are part of their own platoon. This is combined at the company level, which together (with HQ elements) form your battalions, which form your regiments, and so on. (It seems like most large merc organizations would use military structure because they're doing that job and because most of their personnel come from that background.)

On the one side of it a large mercenary corporation might be the size of a division; thousands of troops and logisitics and so on; on the other would be the "two men and a laptop" companies that bid on contracts and when they get on, have to go out and hire the staff. So how big the mercenary company is and the culture of the company is really going to determine how the game is set up.

If the company is small, you can get by with four basic roles:

The Leader
The Muscle
The Face
The Crazy Pilot
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TBRMInsanity
post Nov 26 2009, 05:57 PM
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I'm just going to put my (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 2 in here:
From a military background you are best to have overlapping roles but the roles would be:
Communications
Leadership
Suppressive Fire
Precision Fire
Support (QM/Medics/Artillery/Magic(SR))

I would set up a squad with each person getting a standard equipment load (Assault Rifle, Basic First Aid, Rations, pup tent, personal kit, etc) and then give 1 guy (most likely the strongest) a LMG instead of an assault rifle, I would give everyone a basic comlink but one would have an enhanced comlink and have everyone slave to him (he/she could also fill the role of a drone rigger if needed but the main role would be comms), and I would probably give the sniper rifle to the mage (as I don't really want them in combat to start with being such a valuable asset). The squad leader would have the standard equipment load but may also take the role of comms (though not as a drone rigger as well) if it could speed up the issuing of commands. If the squad leader is also the comms guy I would have at least one backup comms guy that can take over if the squad leader suffers a bullet related death.

In a Merc group the key is overlapping roles as much as possible. The best person for the role is always the key person in that role but there should be at least 1 other person that can take their place if needed (keep your bus factor high). Don't get the idea in your head that someone will be there forever, as a US rifleman said to me once "Machine gunners don't die!" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)
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Ol' Scratch
post Nov 26 2009, 06:19 PM
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Wow, the mage as the sniper is a really great concept. I had never considered that before, but it makes so much sense. Especially if the scope they use is an optical one.
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etherial
post Nov 26 2009, 06:36 PM
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QUOTE (Dr. Funkenstein @ Nov 26 2009, 01:19 PM) *
Wow, the mage as the sniper is a really great concept. I had never considered that before, but it makes so much sense. Especially if the scope they use is an optical one.


Ah, Mojo, the Sniper-Mage...
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TBRMInsanity
post Nov 26 2009, 08:11 PM
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QUOTE (Dr. Funkenstein @ Nov 26 2009, 12:19 PM) *
Wow, the mage as the sniper is a really great concept. I had never considered that before, but it makes so much sense. Especially if the scope they use is an optical one.


I tend to think from a cost point of view and a mage is VERY expensive (training as a mage + training as a soldier) and as a commander I would never put my most valuable resources on the front line. Its why foot patrols are usually favoured over vehicle patrols (unless you can garuntee the vehicles will be staying on paved roads and not likely run over a mine).
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kzt
post Nov 26 2009, 09:59 PM
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Foot patrols are better for other reasons. Military at the sharp end doesn't give a damn about costs. For example, a FGM-148 Javelin costs about $80,000. They are mostly used to kill 'snipers'....
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Nexushound
post Nov 26 2009, 10:09 PM
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Oi Chums,

I'm sure it was mentioned somewhere in those posts but how independant is the unit? If operating far from Command & Control elements then a "Face" type for intel gathering and equipment aquisition would be pretty important role to fill.
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Corgak
post Nov 27 2009, 12:31 AM
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QUOTE (Nexushound @ Nov 26 2009, 04:09 PM) *
Oi Chums,

I'm sure it was mentioned somewhere in those posts but how independant is the unit? If operating far from Command & Control elements then a "Face" type for intel gathering and equipment aquisition would be pretty important role to fill.


I was intending the group to routinely be able to visit a quarter master at the headquarters prior to deploying for a mission, also as they earn money they can aquire their own firearms if they wish. There is potential that after they have run enough missions that they might get put into missions that require them to gather significant ammounts of intel and aquire additional equipment, however thats not how I intend it to be for the most part.
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Corgak
post Nov 27 2009, 12:31 AM
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I would like to thank everyone for their input, I got a lot of good suggestions and advice.
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Nemrod
post Nov 27 2009, 12:44 AM
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I for one would say :

-1 leader.
-1 or 2 point men (scouts), preferably proficient in stealth / survival, possibly with silenced (actually the term is suppressed) weapons, like submachine guns.
-1 medic or first aid specialist (think ER orderly maybe, not brain surgeon).
-1 demolition / intel specialist, a tech whinie.
-1 or 2 SAWs, heavy support, such as light machine guns, maybe medium if they can handle it.
-1 comm guy (could be the intel spec).
-for the rest just use "regular" guys with assault rifles, preferably with underslung grenade launchers.
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Tachi
post Nov 27 2009, 05:23 AM
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Use the standard makeup of a U.S. Marine company and adjust for magic and hacking/rigging, probably have them at a platoon level instead of a squad or fire-team level. Or, just add an extra platoon to the company and call it the Special Tactics platoon and add the mages, hackers, and riggers as Special Tactics squads that can be added to normal rifle platoons, just as is done with Heavy Weapon squads. Then, make your squad one of those Special Tactics squads with a squad or two of riflemen, grenadiers, and heavy weapons specialists to keep them alive. It makes your company a platoon heavy, and every platoon one squad heavy, Which, I guess actually ends up resembling an Army company more than a Marine company for the actual number of units, but the number of people still works if you use 3 man fire teams.

*shrugs*

So your company is:
3 Rifle platoons
1 Heavy Weapons platoon
1 Special Tactics platoon
+ support staff.

So, your platoon is:
3 Rifle Squads
1 Heavy Weapons Squad
1 Special Tactics Squad

Or, make a squad be:
3 Rifle teams
1 Heavy Weapons team
1 Special Tactics team

with 3 man teams, and keep the mortars and assault elements at platoon or company level. Giving you a 15 man squad to pad the number for NPC storyline (drama/action enhancing) deaths. I've run a few military/mercenary arcs and used this mix. YMMV. If you want a higher body count for extra drama raise the fire teams to 4 or even 5.

^^God, that sounds like an evil bureaucrat talking doesn't it?^^

Look here. This TOE will show you the unit makeup from a fire team to the whole Corps. Go half way down and look at "Ground Combat Elements."
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Nov 28 2009, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE (Tachi @ Nov 26 2009, 10:23 PM) *
Use the standard makeup of a U.S. Marine company and adjust for magic and hacking/rigging, probably have them at a platoon level instead of a squad or fire-team level. Or, just add an extra platoon to the company and call it the Special Tactics platoon and add the mages, hackers, and riggers as Special Tactics squads that can be added to normal rifle platoons, just as is done with Heavy Weapon squads. Then, make your squad one of those Special Tactics squads with a squad or two of riflemen, grenadiers, and heavy weapons specialists to keep them alive. It makes your company a platoon heavy, and every platoon one squad heavy, Which, I guess actually ends up resembling an Army company more than a Marine company for the actual number of units, but the number of people still works if you use 3 man fire teams.

*shrugs*

So your company is:
3 Rifle platoons
1 Heavy Weapons platoon
1 Special Tactics platoon
+ support staff.

So, your platoon is:
3 Rifle Squads
1 Heavy Weapons Squad
1 Special Tactics Squad

Or, make a squad be:
3 Rifle teams
1 Heavy Weapons team
1 Special Tactics team

with 3 man teams, and keep the mortars and assault elements at platoon or company level. Giving you a 15 man squad to pad the number for NPC storyline (drama/action enhancing) deaths. I've run a few military/mercenary arcs and used this mix. YMMV. If you want a higher body count for extra drama raise the fire teams to 4 or even 5.

^^God, that sounds like an evil bureaucrat talking doesn't it?^^

Look here. This TOE will show you the unit makeup from a fire team to the whole Corps. Go half way down and look at "Ground Combat Elements."


@Tachi...

Unless the composition of a standard Marine Platoon has changed, your billets are a little off...

A standard platoon has 3-4 Squads (Depends upon T/O)...
Each Squad is 3 Teams of 4 plus a Squad Leader (13 Total)
Each Team has a Team Leader (M203), a MAchine Gunner (M249 Squad Automatic Weapon, LMG) and 2 Riflemen...

The Company is consisted of 3 Standard Platoons and a Weapons Platoon...
The Weapons Platoon has a 3-4 Sections/Squads (Depending upon T/O)
- A Mortar Section with 3 Guns (3 People each) and a Section Leader (10 People Total)
- A MAchine Gun Section with 6 GPMG (MMG) MachineGuns, Read M60's (2 People Each) and a Section leader (13 People Total)
- An Assault Section with 3 SMAW Teams (2-3 Men Each) to handle Assault and Demolitions (10 People Total)
When a 4th Section is added, it is usually an Assault Section...

For most Mercenary Campaigns, the Standard Marine Corps Squad Composition would work just fine... Indeed, everyone should be somewhat capable of First Aid, and have some skill in Intrusion... other skills to round out will always be appreciated (Parachute, SCUBA, Etc), as they will give you more options...

Mages/Drone Riggers/Hackers are Specialized Individuals that would be attached to the basic squad composition in most T/O.

Keep the Faith

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Tachi
post Nov 28 2009, 09:36 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Nov 28 2009, 02:34 PM) *
@Tachi...

Unless the composition of a standard Marine Platoon has changed, your billets are a little off...

A standard platoon has 3-4 Squads (Depends upon T/O)...
Each Squad is 3 Teams of 4 plus a Squad Leader (13 Total)
Each Team has a Team Leader (M203), a MAchine Gunner (M249 Squad Automatic Weapon, LMG) and 2 Riflemen...

The Company is consisted of 3 Standard Platoons and a Weapons Platoon...
The Weapons Platoon has a 3-4 Sections/Squads (Depending upon T/O)
- A Mortar Section with 3 Guns (3 People each) and a Section Leader (10 People Total)
- A MAchine Gun Section with 6 GPMG (MMG) MachineGuns, Read M60's (2 People Each) and a Section leader (13 People Total)
- An Assault Section with 3 SMAW Teams (2-3 Men Each) to handle Assault and Demolitions (10 People Total)
When a 4th Section is added, it is usually an Assault Section...

For most Mercenary Campaigns, the Standard Marine Corps Squad Composition would work just fine... Indeed, everyone should be somewhat capable of First Aid, and have some skill in Intrusion... other skills to round out will always be appreciated (Parachute, SCUBA, Etc), as they will give you more options...

Mages/Drone Riggers/Hackers are Specialized Individuals that would be attached to the basic squad composition in most T/O.

Keep the Faith

Yeah, I know, I was fudging the numbers to try to fit in an extra platoon because I figured the hackers/riggers/mages would be best as a separate "Special Tactics" platoon that could be parceled out depending on mission. So you end up with a platoon with an extra squad of 'Special tactics" attached just like they'd have a weapons squad. It wasn't perfect, but It kept a squads total number about the same (16 instead of 13), though it increased the actual number of fireteams.

I had considered removing one rifle team from the squads and bumping it back to 4 man teams but that would raise a squad to 17 and I wasn't sure if I wanted to do that. Though, I guess if I'm already increasing a squad to 16, going to 17 isn't really a big deal is it?

I take it you think it would be better to have the hackers/riggers/mages people take rifleman slots? I realize every Marine is a rifleman, but thought it might be best to have them separate. *honestly curious, you're ex-mil right?*
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Cthulhudreams
post Nov 29 2009, 02:14 PM
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Why would you put mages at the platoon level? Intelligence capabilities and other support units are rolled up to much higher levels.
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TBRMInsanity
post Nov 29 2009, 03:47 PM
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QUOTE (Cthulhudreams @ Nov 29 2009, 08:14 AM) *
Why would you put mages at the platoon level? Intelligence capabilities and other support units are rolled up to much higher levels.


Ideally you would also have your hacker/rigger at a higher level as well (along with medics, cooks, QMs, clerks, and even artillery). Most military charts do include attached assets (like communications) as part of their platoon level org charts (units that don't leave room for these attached assets usually don't last long as they tend to be highly inefficient).
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