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[limejello10512]

If you read the rules life styles serve no purpose at all they seem to be a waste of money for the most part. Here's some of my advice on how to fix that

karma bonus

after each run the pc's gain the following bonus to karma based on life style.

street -2

squatter -1

low 0

med 1

high 2

luxury 3

Edge bonus:

once per run allow the runners to rest at their house (must be for an entire day of relaxation with no running work at all)

restore this number of bonus points to their edge pool (up to their maximum edge):

street 0

squatter 1

low 2

med 3

high 4

luxury 5


Since restoring edge and karma are up to the gm these are both legal also.

[Paul]

If you have fun with this by all means go for it, but we have no need to change life style rules at our table. They play a pretty decent role in our game, and players often maintain multiple lifestyles in order to avoid law enforcement officials and enemies.

[hahnsoo]

This is a terrible idea. Not only do you provide a method for gaming the Karma system, you artificially change the way their Edge refreshes. Lifestyles are good enough as it is, especially if you use the rules from the Runner's Companion. Having your own little slice of heaven/closet in hell is NOT to be underestimated.

For example, our rigger character needs a vehicle shop... but where in the hell are you going to put one without a lifestyle? Your mage needs a place to set up their lodge... again, lifestyle. Heck, my character lives on a frickin' boat, but he needs Matrix access, food to eat, and personal security devices to fry any potential intruders. This is all rolled into the lifestyle costs.

If lifestyles are being underutilized in your campaign, you need to provide some good reasons to have one (and the good reasons are all there), and NOT Karma/Edge rewards.

[The Jake]

I have on PC in my game that has spent 7,000Y on a single outfit, just so he has something nice to wear. I have another that regularly blows 1,000Y per suit because he refuses to buy anything of a lesser quality and ONLY suits.

Why should players be rewarded for doing basic stuff they should be doing anyway?

Staying in character is what roleplaying is about. You get karma for staying true to the concept. I wish I got karma for paying my rent but it doesn't work like that.

- J.

[Ol' Scratch]

Incentives would be nice from a game design point of view. I understand that desire; it sucks having to spend (in many cases) a huge chunk of nuyen every single month that doesn't really net you anything. When, instead, you could get the same "benefit" by just going with a Street lifestyle and instead spending the cash on upgraded implants or whatever else.

From a roleplaying point of view, it's exactly the opposite. It just makes sense to have this particular expense. And a cushy lifestyle, even for a month, is an awesome reward in and of itself.

One thing you could do is be more literal about the things Lifestyles give you as pointed out in their individual descriptions in Runner's Companion. A High Necessities (or maybe it was Entertainment), for example, allows you to buy all the armored clothing you like for free. Everything up to and including Berwick or Actioneer suits. If you prefer the basic lifestyles, you could just come up with some guidelines on your own. A Medium lifestyle might net you a leased Mercury Comet sedan, a Low one might get you a three-wheeled Honda Spirit, a High one might get you a Eurocar Westwind sports car, and a Luxury one will get you your own Mitsubishi Nightsky armored limo or Sea Nymph yacht. If they get destroyed your lifestyle could just get you a new one thanks to your insurance package as long as it wasn't too suspicious.

Pretty much a free equipment for everyday life. You could always choose to use it on a run, too, but there'll be a paper trail back to you. So either associate that lifestyle with a really fancy fake SIN or be ready to be hounded if you decide to do so.

Those are the types of incentives you should consider. The free licenses, alone, can be a God-send, especially if you travel a lot.

[Jack Kain]

Certain things are assumed in your lifestyle that are rather important, you shouldn't need runners companion to realize that.
The very important things that are covered, food, laundry, phone bills and even security. Your vehicles fuel and basic maintenance. (not combat damage but the basics needed to keep it fined tune and running). Then of course security because all runners have to sleep at night. Where you live can have a big effect when someone comes after you during your down time. If some criminal element is after you and you live in in a secure zone(high lifestyle). They'll have go through them to get to you.

Then you simply have the roleplaying element(and if your not roleplaying Shadowrun your doing it wrong) how many runners live for shadowrunning? few. How many shadowrunners live for the money to enjoy their luxuries plenty. If you want to make lifestyles more important you can do other things. Say and low lifestyle (and below) runners may have problems from fatigue,(if you recently pissed off some people and live in a poor neighborhood with crappy security you just might have problems sleeping at night). malnutrition and other stuff from having a low lifestyle.

Here's a good example of a negative quality, combing with roleplaying for good effect, my own character has an allergy to soy its mild and could handle it in small amounts but a plate of soycaff smeared in his face would give him a really bad rash. Even smelling the stuff can cause him problems.
This means a high life style (at least in necessities is required), so he can eat real food.
He's also a charismatic Elf, the face of the group and likes to hit on beautiful and exotic women.

[Traul]

Are we all talking about the same thing here?

To me (and to the rulebook), buying a lifstyle refers to buying a permanent one. Then I can understand how useless it is for a runner. Or rather the other way around: why keep on running since your life is already secured?

I think there are penalties for any focused tasks such as learning a spell, working on a gun or drone,... when done in a too much shabby place, but I don't remember where it is written.

[Draco18s]

To me (and to the rulebook), buying a lifstyle refers to buying a permanent one. Then I can understand how useless it is for a runner. Or rather the other way around: why keep on running since your life is already secured?

Rent? Mortgage? Utilities? Groceries?

[Ol' Scratch]

If you buy a permanent lifestyle you don't have to worry about any of those things. You're set for, well, life.

[etherial]

Incentives would be nice from a game design point of view. I understand that desire; it sucks having to spend (in many cases) a huge chunk of nuyen every single month that doesn't really net you anything. When, instead, you could get the same "benefit" by just going with a Street lifestyle and instead spending the cash on upgraded implants or whatever else.

???

If your character has a Street lifestyle and isn't fighting off gangers, robbers, or toxic spirits every night, your GM is doing it wrong™.

[PBI]

Lifestyles serve a very important purpose; at a bare minimum, they give the players a reason to keep running even if all other reasons are moot by allowing the GM to take excess money out of thew campaign and keep the players hungry for more money. The rules are fine. If they don't mean much in a particular campaign, that's the fault/responsibility of the GM.

[Ol' Scratch]

If your character has a Street lifestyle and isn't fighting off gangers, robbers, or toxic spirits every night, your GM is doing it wrong™.

That's a roleplaying concern. Those things don't happen solely because of the Street Lifestyle mechanics. It happens because the GM is enforcing the roleplaying aspect of a Street Lifestyle. So like I said, from a mechanics point of view, there's no reason to get anything higher than a Street Lifestyle. All a Luxury Lifestyle gets you is a 100,000-nuyen a month bill mechanically.

[Jericho Alar]

That's a roleplaying concern. Those things don't happen solely because of the Street Lifestyle mechanics. It happens because the GM is enforcing the roleplaying aspect of a Street Lifestyle. So like I said, from a mechanics point of view, there's no reason to get anything higher than a Street Lifestyle. All a Luxury Lifestyle gets you is a 100,000-nuyen a month bill mechanically.

mechanically speaking, runner's companion includes certain things that are automatically covered by lifestyle: memberships to exclusive clubs, clothing up to a certain cost per unit, food (low+), maintenance on vehicle(s)/drone(s)/softs/programs, space for a shop, etc. you may argue that it doesn't add up to the value of the lifestyle each month, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a mechanical benefit to them.

I agree that there isn't much difference between street and squatter mechanically, but the price is right for the roleplay benefits. Low / Medium / High are all pretty reasonable, and luxury is absurd precisely *because* it's meant to be roleplay again. (then again, permanent seats at the most exclusive clubs in the world and private jets are a powerful roleplay incentive)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

mechanically speaking, runner's companion includes certain things that are automatically covered by lifestyle: memberships to exclusive clubs, clothing up to a certain cost per unit, food (low+), maintenance on vehicle(s)/drone(s)/softs/programs, space for a shop, etc. you may argue that it doesn't add up to the value of the lifestyle each month, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a mechanical benefit to them.

I agree that there isn't much difference between street and squatter mechanically, but the price is right for the roleplay benefits. Low / Medium / High are all pretty reasonable, and luxury is absurd precisely *because* it's meant to be roleplay again. (then again, permanent seats at the most exclusive clubs in the world and private jets are a powerful roleplay incentive)

I really have to agree with Jericho Alar Here... there are tangible mechanical benefits/drawbacks to the various lifestyles as presented in the material... there are also roleplay benefits to them as well... if you are not using these to enhance the flavor of your games, then that is the fault of the Table at which you are playing, not the Mechanics of the game...

Keep the Faith

[Ascalaphus]

I can certainly see the logic of letting Lifestyle modify the difficulty of extended projects. Sure, some hackers do all their work in shabby places, but really, good food, better coffee, hourly drone massages to relax you should help. Exceptions should mostly apply to some Initiation Ordeals (Asceticism comes to mind (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I can certainly see the logic of letting Lifestyle modify the difficulty of extended projects. Sure, some hackers do all their work in shabby places, but really, good food, better coffee, hourly drone massages to relax you should help. Exceptions should mostly apply to some Initiation Ordeals (Asceticism comes to mind (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )

Sure, but that again comes into the realm of the GM... he is free to give modifiers based upon circumstance, and lifestyles are the epitome of circumstance...

Keep the Faith

[etherial]

That's a roleplaying concern. Those things don't happen solely because of the Street Lifestyle mechanics. It happens because the GM is enforcing the roleplaying aspect of a Street Lifestyle. So like I said, from a mechanics point of view, there's no reason to get anything higher than a Street Lifestyle. All a Luxury Lifestyle gets you is a 100,000-nuyen a month bill mechanically.

So you would prefer if there was a random table for who jumps you while you're sleeping in a dumpster, then? And rules for starvation, since a character with a Street Lifestyle only eats what they find, to force them to spend RP time scrounging for food?

[Jericho Alar]

So you would prefer if there was a random table for who jumps you while you're sleeping in a dumpster, then? And rules for starvation, since a character with a Street Lifestyle only eats what they find, to force them to spend RP time scrounging for food?

only if 6-6-6 is Dragon. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

or a free spirit with a golden fiddle....

[Ol' Scratch]

The hell is wrong with people around here anymore?

Just because I recognize the difference between a game mechanic and a roleplaying concern doesn't have any thing to do with what I think of those mechanics or concerns. Jesus Christ. Hey, guess what! I know that using 4, 5 and 6 as a hit and allowing exploding dice with the Rule of Six on all tests is an optional game mechanic. Guess what else! That doesn't mean I'm going to use it in my games. Did I just blow your mind or what?!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

[Tachi]

The hell is wrong with people around here anymore?

Just because I recognize the difference between a game mechanic and a roleplaying concern doesn't have any thing to do with what I think of those mechanics or concerns. Jesus Christ. Hey, guess what! I know that using 4, 5 and 6 as a hit and allowing exploding dice with the Rule of Six on all tests is an optional game mechanic. Guess what else! That doesn't mean I'm going to use it in my games. Did I just blow your mind or what?!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

Easy now, you're gonna give yourself an aneurysm.

only if 6-6-6 is Dragon. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

or a free spirit with a golden fiddle....

"Johnny said, 'Devil, just come on back it you ever wanna try it again, I done told you once, you son-of-a-bitch, I'm the best there's ever been.'" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

The hell is wrong with people around here anymore?

Just because I recognize the difference between a game mechanic and a roleplaying concern doesn't have any thing to do with what I think of those mechanics or concerns. Jesus Christ. Hey, guess what! I know that using 4, 5 and 6 as a hit and allowing exploding dice with the Rule of Six on all tests is an optional game mechanic. Guess what else! That doesn't mean I'm going to use it in my games. Did I just blow your mind or what?!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

You should learn to relax a bit Doc... I hear that Meditation is a good practice... *Woosa*

Keep the Faith

[Heath Robinson]

I can certainly see the logic of letting Lifestyle modify the difficulty of extended projects. Sure, some hackers do all their work in shabby places, but really, good food, better coffee, hourly drone massages to relax you should help. Exceptions should mostly apply to some Initiation Ordeals (Asceticism comes to mind (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )

Even ascetism is easier if you're well fed and healthier before hand. When you start starving yourself (even low-level starvation) you begin burning off muscle and fat for energy. With more of those to begin with (some fat is good for your body, by providing a little bit of cushioning for your organs), you're more likely to stay healthier for longer under deprivation conditions.


One of the cool things is to give players rolls like [Security + Neighbourhood] for foiling attempts to tamper with their living space. Any 'runner can appreciate that kind of benefit.

Edit: By "foiling attempts to tamper with their living space" I mean "the player(s) get(s) significant advance warning of the fact" as much as "it just don't happen". And by "tampering" I mean, explosive surprises, or ambushes inside their homes.

[Mercer]

The difference between the high end and the low end of lifestyles is usually pretty significant (streets to luxury), but from one to the next it's usually not a big deal. Low lifestyle is supposed to be a little less secure on the whole from Middle, but it's not like you lose gear from one month to the next because your "security rating" was lower than the (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) cost of your stored gear.

The difference between High Lifestyle and Middle over the course of a year is 60k. Middle to Low is 36k. The difference between High and Low over a year is 96k. It's hard to argue for a cyber character, 96k can't be put to better use than lifestyle. (And this is ignoring the oddly worded rule that means you technically only have to pay every other month of Lifestyle. Or that a four man team can afford a high Lifestyle for everybody for 1625k each a month.)

It doesn't offend me to tie some mechanical benefits to these expenditures. I like the Edge refresh, I can see runners who're low on edge being strung out and running on empty and needing to crash for a bit, and crashing on silk sheets in a high rise is probably more refreshing than in a squalid apartment surrounded by sirens and staccato gunfire. The Karma bonus I wouldn't use though, just because I've never cared for the cash for karma systems.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

The difference between the high end and the low end of lifestyles is usually pretty significant (streets to luxury), but from one to the next it's usually not a big deal. Low lifestyle is supposed to be a little less secure on the whole from Middle, but it's not like you lose gear from one month to the next because your "security rating" was lower than the (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) cost of your stored gear.

The difference between High Lifestyle and Middle over the course of a year is 60k. Middle to Low is 36k. The difference between High and Low over a year is 96k. It's hard to argue for a cyber character, 96k can't be put to better use than lifestyle. (And this is ignoring the oddly worded rule that means you technically only have to pay every other month of Lifestyle. Or that a four man team can afford a high Lifestyle for everybody for 1625k each a month.)

It doesn't offend me to tie some mechanical benefits to these expenditures. I like the Edge refresh, I can see runners who're low on edge being strung out and running on empty and needing to crash for a bit, and crashing on silk sheets in a high rise is probably more refreshing than in a squalid apartment surrounded by sirens and staccato gunfire. The Karma bonus I wouldn't use though, just because I've never cared for the cash for karma systems.

Well Said...

Keep the Faith

[etherial]

The hell is wrong with people around here anymore?

Just because I recognize the difference between a game mechanic and a roleplaying concern doesn't have any thing to do with what I think of those mechanics or concerns. Jesus Christ. Hey, guess what! I know that using 4, 5 and 6 as a hit and allowing exploding dice with the Rule of Six on all tests is an optional game mechanic. Guess what else! That doesn't mean I'm going to use it in my games. Did I just blow your mind or what?!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

I overreacted. I conflated what you said with what the OP said and jumped to the conclusion that you were of the opinion that if there weren't mechanics for it, it didn't exist. I apologize.