Can you trace a commlink via its commcode?, Also, does the target need to be online? Options

[Karoline]

Karoline I know what your actually speaking of but your terminology is flawed.

Not using the same address twice is not the same as spoofing an address.

You're likely right. I'm bad with terminology.

And Joel has a good point. Forget about real world examples (How often does the game divert from that anyway?) and look at balance. If you can track someone down solely by their commcode, then you can find anyone anywhere at any time with virtually no effort, which is what I was getting at with my earlier post about burgling houses and stalkers. I'd imagine that even if a commlink which used a particular commcode was on, it would have to be actively using that code for it to work. Thus shady people get a special number that is closer to e-mail, and regular people get a number that is more like a phonenumber.

[Ranger]

I agree with what Joel wrote. The game has plenty of unrealism--I'm thinking about the combat rules, specifically dealing with firearms--but the bottom line is that the game is playable despite some clear lack of realism. Since I forego certain degrees of realism with the combat rules, I'm also willing to forego a certain degree of realism when it comes to hacking, not that I know all that much about hacking, which is all the more reason for me not to cause my brain to explode by trying to figure out the realism or viability of tracing via commcode vs via access ID.

So, I'm also going to go with the idea that you can trace a commcode--but only if the commcode is currently in use. That is, only if the owner is making or receiving a call.

[Malachi]

So, I'm also going to go with the idea that you can trace a commcode--but only if the commcode is currently in use. That is, only if the owner is making or receiving a call.

... and strangely, that is what "someone" said in the first post. Huh. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Karoline]

I agree with what Joel wrote. The game has plenty of unrealism--I'm thinking about the combat rules, specifically dealing with firearms--but the bottom line is that the game is playable despite some clear lack of realism.

What, dodging bullets isn't realistic to you? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Ranger]

What, dodging bullets isn't realistic to you? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Dodging bullets--on foot and in a car--, the recoil rules, the DV and AP assigned to the various weapons, the amounts of ammo that each holds, silencers and sound suppressors being different...the list goes on. Don't get me started!

[kzt]

You're likely right. I'm bad with terminology.

And Joel has a good point. Forget about real world examples (How often does the game divert from that anyway?) and look at balance. If you can track someone down solely by their commcode, then you can find anyone anywhere at any time with virtually no effort, which is what I was getting at with my earlier post about burgling houses and stalkers. I'd imagine that even if a commlink which used a particular commcode was on, it would have to be actively using that code for it to work. Thus shady people get a special number that is closer to e-mail, and regular people get a number that is more like a phonenumber.

That's why smart people who commit illegal acts don't carry around a working cell phone while they do them today. Because if the authorities have your number they can contact your carrier and the carrier will provide them a very nice record of where you have been and when for the last 60 days that is accurate to a few miles to a few meters depending on the phone and tower tech. This is in addition to who called you and who you called and when. It's not going to get easier to be a stupid or chatty crook.

[Nol]

The cell phone analogy doesn't make sense. Cell phone are easily tracked by the company because towers have a certain range, so if you're on a certain tower you're within that range. With the wireless mesh network in 2070, this is not at all the case. In fact, any phone analogies to commcodes really don't fit well in general. With modern day POTS or cell phone technology, the routing of the call is basically entirely handled within a small number of companies. This lets them easily know where you are because they know where the call is being routed. With a wireless mesh network however, the system is more complex. Unlike modern day internet there really isn't a single company that controls any significant portion of the routing infrastructure in 2070 (Just by sheer numbers - the wireless mesh between random nodes constitutes a huge portion of the infrastructure). So for a MSP to actively have records of where you are at any point in time based on your commcode they'd have to constantly trace you. And, the fact is, they couldn't even do this because for a Shadowrunner that commcode is not going to consistently resolve to an access ID. The email analogy fits here - a particular email address is not going to consistently resolve to a given IP, instead its a service, registered under a particular identity, that is connected to by a client (which can connect from any IP) and then utilized that way. This is how commcodes work in SR.

You have User A, User B, MSP A, and MSP B. User A wants to make a call. He connects to his MSP and authenticates to his commcode, then sends a message basically saying he wants to call User B (More accurately the message consists of User B's commcode), MSP A then resolves it to MSP B and connects, MSP B figures out the access ID of User B and sends him a message and tada, connection. Now, for that last step to actually work (for MSP B to actually figure out User B's commcode), User B would have to have been logged in to MSP B's commcode service, which is exactly like any instant messaging service today. As a GM I would rule that you couldn't just outright trace an active call, but you could do it by hacking the MSP node in-between. Though I would probably rule that the Sleuth's traceroute power could do it directly. Now on the topic of tracing an inactive code I'm unsure. It would certainly involve hacking the MSP node, but the question becomes if the user is actually logged into his MSP, which may or may not be the case for a Shadowrunner. In any case, I would rule that hacking the MSP would allow you to get the last known access ID that authenticated as that commcode, and run standard trace rules from there. But just running trace right on a commcode? No.

Finally as an aside I would like to point out that its incredibly easy to send virtually untraceable email. Lets see, how about I take my laptop and walk into a random internet cafe, spoof my MAC address (for good measure), bounce my connection through a random proxy in China along with an anonymizing mesh network like TOR, send it out of an open mail relay and then bounce it through an anonymous remailer. To trace this email, a party would have to go to the remailer and get information on where the original email came from (Difficult in the first place), this would get them back to the mail relay. From the mail relay they would have the IP I connected by. Okay now they have to trace through TOR (This is virtually impossible on its own - read up on anonymizing mesh networks to figure out why. On a basic level it can be explained as nodes communicating in an anonymous mesh network don't actually know the IPs of any nodes they are communicating with), trace through that proxy in China, and, if they manage that, somehow go from a spoofed MAC address at a certain time in a certain internet cafe to an individual person. Have fun with that.

[kzt]

You have User A, User B, MSP A, and MSP B. User A wants to make a call. He connects to his MSP and authenticates to his commcode, then sends a message basically saying he wants to call User B (More accurately the message consists of User B's commcode), MSP A then resolves it to MSP B and connects, MSP B figures out the access ID of User B and sends him a message and tada, connection. Now, for that last step to actually work (for MSP B to actually figure out User B's commcode), User B would have to have been logged in to MSP B's commcode service, which is exactly like any instant messaging service today.

Sure, if you are not choosing receive calls that is pretty much like turning off your cell phone radio. Not exactly, but pretty much. If you are receiving calls then your carrier knows roughly where you are, within a few miles. Given that things like e911 laws never get more relaxed, they are likely to know where you are to a lot more accuracy than that.

And if someone has your comcode they know what carrier you use and can probably get them to disclose lots of interesting stuff. Like who you have called and been called by, where you where when you placed and received calls, etc.

There are experienced criminals, and there are chatty criminals. You find chatty experienced criminals in graveyards, prisons and jails.

Finally as an aside I would like to point out that its incredibly easy to send virtually untraceable email.

It's hardly impossible to do a one-way message, but the fact that China actively filters TOR traffic makes it harder than it looks. Plus sending things you don't want disclosed through China is kind of like deciding to cut through the police station after pulling a robbery in the hope of losing the shop manager chasing you. Amazing things get sent through TOR but your approach is going to make it pretty hard to conduct a conversation. And that's part of the issue with the whole "I'm going to hidden mode on my commlink" while the game allows you to still make and get calls. If you have an active link running you are obvious to anyone around who knows what to look for.

[Nol]

The issue is that MSPs in 2070 don't, from what I've read, run towers like a conventional cell phone provider does. Its more akin to getting email service from Google or Yahoo. The MSP doesn't run the matrix infrastructure. Hence, unless they are, for some reason, wasting CPU cycles on running active traces on anyone that connects to them, they will not know, even generally, where you are due to the mesh nature of the matrix. The reason you can do geolocation on IPs today is because blocks are assigned to specific areas (Well, not exactly, technically they are assigned to different groups, but functionally it works out to be different areas), meaning just by having an IP and not doing any tracing you get a very general location. With cell phone towers you have the whole easy to tell which tower someone is using thing. But in a mesh network where access IDs are basically fluid? You're not going to go from an access ID to a physical location without running trace unless you control significant portions of the matrix infrastructure along the path and are able to figure out where exactly that data is getting routed. But again, from what I can see, MSPs in 2070 don't control that infrastructure, or at least not sufficiently significant portions of it.

[Tsuul]

(Pure speculation ahead)
Including geolocation into the formula of figuring how to make a connection between two nodes that could be anywhere in the world is probably a smart idea.
Replace cell towers with public access nodes (sponsored by MSPs) scattered across a city. Have every device on the network able to pass on data and you shrink the footprint of those public access nodes from the giant towers of today, down to something the size of a large trid screen. Have every device on the network able to know its location through GPS, and your location can be pinpointed by any group of devices you are connected through.
So if you want to recieve calls, the MSP know exactly where you are. (In the spirit of efficiency, your commlink simply tells the MSP where it is. And it only needs to update the MSP if it moves) By hacking the MSP, or getting a court order anyone could get that info. GL on the MSP hack, and better luck on the red tape.

Or you could call the commcode and run a trace. Your connection has already been established and authenticated, you are just pulling up a list of nodes your call is being placed through. Those nodes probably aren't changing very much, and by their nature, they are VERY HELPFUL in making connections.

The MSPs are no longer in charge of the infrastructure, which is why a legitimate trace program would be helpful in keeping the connections moving as quickly as possible.

[kzt]

What SR describes is a mobile ad hoc network (MANET), and it's really unclear how a large scale MANET could work, much less one that is several orders of magnitude larger then the current Internet. There has to be some sort of underlying structure, as it's simple insane to think that you could maintain a network with 50 billion nodes without a LOT of structure.

My understanding is that today several dozen nodes that are not connected to the outside is a pretty big MANET and it's where you start to have serious issues with connectivity. You can't realistically make many assumptions about how (or even whether) a huge MANET will work.

It's clear that there has to somehow be something that connects a node to a globally unique ID and allows traffic to very rapidly connect to the node in order to have voice and video calls work and I can't see how this wouldn't allow a sophisticated attacker to connect to the node. I would expect that the path this takes and and the connection itself would provide quite a lot of information on the nodes location, but that's all it is.

[Ryu]

- The Precious pg. 224: Commcodes link to the Matrix Service Provider, your Commlink connects to the MSP.
- Unwired pg. 54: Communications are handled via Data Requests.
- The Precious pg. 232: Trace can be used on icons.

So you have to look up the MSP that gave out the commcode (get´s done automatically), and hack one of it´s nodes. Said node should contain a routing database, or be allowed to request routing data. You hopefully get at least one online accessID out of that request, and are guranteed to get one if the commlink is currently in use.

[Ascalaphus]

Doesn't Unwired talk about NeoNET having backbone cables through parts of the world? And other corps doing the same here and there? (PacRim communications, SK)

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Sure. All that blurb about new and improved wireless Matrix 2.0 is just PR... and software upgrades.

Most of the infrastructure, including the former cellular net is still in use.