[SR4] - Direct rigging without a commlink?, Probably a stupid question, but I have to ask… Options

[Tyenkrovy]

In previous editions, if a rigger character were plugged directly into the port in their vehicle via a cable plugged into their datajack, they could rig said vehicle just fine. However, it seems now that any rigging character has to use Response for nearly every test while rigging. Does this mean that you can no longer rig without a commlink? Or is there some inherent Response rating to a Control Rig or the Rigger Adaptation vehicle mod that I'm not seeing?

[Jericho Alar]

In previous editions, if a rigger character were plugged directly into the port in their vehicle via a cable plugged into their datajack, they could rig said vehicle just fine. However, it seems now that any rigging character has to use Response for nearly every test while rigging. Does this mean that you can no longer rig without a commlink? Or is there some inherent Response rating to a Control Rig or the Rigger Adaptation vehicle mod that I'm not seeing?

I would assume the rigger would use the vehicle's response score in this case.

unfortunately, it appears to be an oversight that response scores are not provided in the RAW; since as per pp242 SR4A the drone / rigged vehicle is a device and should have hardware stats (response/signal) - neither is listed. Signal seems to be an especially surprising oversight.

[Ol' Scratch]

You technically can as all devices have a Device Rating which is the rating of its individual Firewall/Response/System/Signal attributes. That includes vehicles. You just have to figure out what that rating is. SR4A p. 222 sets it at 3 to 5 depending on the type of vehicle.

It's one of the reasons I never understood why people really need to buy a commlink at all in SR4. Any device you have seems to be able to do the job of one, and getting a deltaware Datajack for 10,000 nuyen and 0.05 Essence sets you up with a minimum Device Rating of 6 that's always going to be with you and an utter bitch to detect. It takes like 5 net hits on an assensing test or 4 on a cyberware scanner to spot it. That'd be the first thing I do in-game as a hacker or even a technomancer myself.

Hell, just get a certified credstick and use it. They have a Device Rating of 6 (SR4A p. 222) and it costs a whopping 25 nuyen. Silly as that would be, I don't see why it wouldn't work.

[Jericho Alar]

You technically can as all devices have a Device Rating which is the rating of its individual Firewall/Response/System/Signal attributes. That includes vehicles. You just have to figure out what that rating is.

It's one of the reasons I never understood why people really need to buy a commlink at all in SR4. Any device you have seems to be able to do the job of one, and getting a deltaware Datajack for 10,000 nuyen and 0.05 Essence sets you up with a minimum Device Rating of 6 that's always going to be with you and an utter bitch to detect. It takes like 5 net hits on an assensing test or 4 on a cyberware scanner to spot it. That'd be the first thing I do in-game as a hacker or even a technomancer myself.

Hell, just get a certified credstick and use it. They have a Device Rating of 6 (SR4A p. 222) and it costs a whopping 25 nuyen. Silly as that would be, I don't see why it wouldn't work.

They really need to correct the device ratings; Credsticks should have very low system, signal, and response, but good firewall. I mean, does it really make sense that a credstick can broadcast in a 10km radius?

[Ol' Scratch]

I don't think anyone would be shocked to know that I think most of the rules in the game are utterly shitty. I'm a fan of the setting and genre, not the rules. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

It's even kookier because Response seems to be meaningless to me. If your commlink is overburdened, why can't you just use your datajack, cybereyes, credstick, contact lenses, sunglasses, RFID tags in your clothes, or any other electronic gizmo on your body. Especially for secondary programs like Empathy or the like.

[Mickle5125]

Really, Doc Funk? I wouldn't have guessed... ^_~

[Jericho Alar]

I don't think anyone would be shocked to know that I think most of the rules in the game are utterly shitty. I'm a fan of the setting and genre, not the rules. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Generally we use Pilot as a proxy for system (as RAW), but also for response. signal we sort of ad-hoc (who doesn't?) and firewall for our rigger's gear is assumed to always be 6 since it's software and easily updated. [edit]well, assuming that it isn't capped for other reasons (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)

[Tyenkrovy]

Wow… thanks for all the quick responses! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

I appreciate all the suggestions, guys. It seemed a little odd that something that could be done so easily with less advanced technology as long as 20 years before SR4 would suddenly be impossible. I like the idea of using the Pilot rating as a proxy for the System and Response ratings. May have to run that by my group when next we meet.

[Jericho Alar]

Wow… thanks for all the quick responses! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

I appreciate all the suggestions, guys. It seemed a little odd that something that could be done so easily with less advanced technology as long as 20 years before SR4 would suddenly be impossible. I like the idea of using the Pilot rating as a proxy for the System and Response ratings. May have to run that by my group when next we meet.

well, by definition (see the rigging section in wireless world) Pilot is System for drones. using it as Response is a house rule to compensate for the lack of listed response or device ratings on rigged vehicles/drones.

you could just as easily knock up Response and Signal ratings for all drones/vehicles individually (firewall is software so...)

[Ol' Scratch]

Regarding credsticks, Unwired p. 48 goes into more detail on their attributes. They're Response 2/Signal 2/System 6/Firewall 6. Still crazy useful if you ask me, especially since response and especially Signal are crazy-easy to improve.

On a slightly related note, what exactly stops you from using all of your electronics to create a nigh-unstoppable cluster? I mean, spend 2,500 nuyen on a hundred (a hyperbole to illustrate a point) certified credsticks and you have a cluster with System 6/Firewall 6/Response 2/Signal 2 and a Processor Limit of 100(!). I'm not sure how the numbers work out, but it's something crazy like that. Hook it up to a commlink with System 6/Firewall 6/Response 2/Signal 6 simply to avoid degrading the cluster's performance while boosting its Signal, and you're pretty much set.

EDIT: Apparently I like the word "crazy."

[Jericho Alar]

Regarding credsticks, Unwired p. 48 goes into more detail on their attributes. They're Response 2/Signal 2/System 6/Firewall 6. Still crazy useful if you ask me, especially since response and especially Signal are crazy-easy to improve.

On a slightly related note, what exactly stops you from using all of your electronics to create a nigh-unstoppable cluster? I mean, spend 2,500 nuyen on a hundred (a hyperbole to illustrate a point) certified credsticks and you have a cluster with System 6/Firewall 6/Response 2/Signal 2 and a Processor Limit of 100(!). I'm not sure how the numbers work out, but it's something crazy like that. Hook it up to a commlink with System 6/Firewall 6/Response 2/Signal 6 simply to avoid degrading the cluster's performance while boosting its Signal, and you're pretty much set.

nothing really; it's actually one of the ways to achieve the Agent Smith dilemma.

the other common way of course is to hack yourself an admin account and just load him repeatedly onto the node in question to crash it... *


personally I'd make them System 2 but because of the program rating limited to system limitation they'd have crap firewalls then (seriously, bad limitation!)

*I still maintain the latter is by design. the former is kind of messed up though.

[3278]

In previous editions, if a rigger character were plugged directly into the port in their vehicle via a cable plugged into their datajack, they could rig said vehicle just fine. However, it seems now that any rigging character has to use Response for nearly every test while rigging. Does this mean that you can no longer rig without a commlink? Or is there some inherent Response rating to a Control Rig or the Rigger Adaptation vehicle mod that I'm not seeing?

The way I've been doing it is this: if the Response of the commlink is the rigger's Response while rigging through his commlink, then the Response of the datajack should be the rigger's Response while rigging through his datajack. You then apply the Rating rules as per the grade of cyberware, using the Device Rating rules and Sample Devices Table on SR4a, p222. This makes more sense to me than using the vehicle's rating, or the Pilot, because of the commlink/datajack equivalency in its role in rigging. The vehicle's rating should only count for tests against its Response, and Pilot should only be used when the vehicle is operating autonomously. That's how I've been doing it, anyway.

I think riggers are wise to connect directly to the vehicle their physical body is in. Someone out there just might be able to beat your Firewall, but no one beats your fiber optic cable.

[Jericho Alar]

The way I've been doing it is this: if the Response of the commlink is the rigger's Response while rigging through his commlink, then the Response of the datajack should be the rigger's Response while rigging through his datajack. You then apply the Rating rules as per the grade of cyberware, using the Device Rating rules and Sample Devices Table on SR4a, p222. This makes more sense to me than using the vehicle's rating, or the Pilot, because of the commlink/datajack equivalency in its role in rigging. The vehicle's rating should only count for tests against its Response, and Pilot should only be used when the vehicle is operating autonomously. That's how I've been doing it, anyway.

I think riggers are wise to connect directly to the vehicle their physical body is in. Someone out there just might be able to beat your Firewall, but no one beats your fiber optic cable.

with an implanted commlink and a datajack you can still be cable connected (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif) (this is how my hacker gets around.)*


*of course, I'm driving in AR, it's a bike.

[Heath Robinson]

Regarding credsticks, Unwired p. 48 goes into more detail on their attributes. They're Response 2/Signal 2/System 6/Firewall 6. Still crazy useful if you ask me, especially since response and especially Signal are crazy-easy to improve.

On a slightly related note, what exactly stops you from using all of your electronics to create a nigh-unstoppable cluster? I mean, spend 2,500 nuyen on a hundred (a hyperbole to illustrate a point) certified credsticks and you have a cluster with System 6/Firewall 6/Response 2/Signal 2 and a Processor Limit of 100(!). I'm not sure how the numbers work out, but it's something crazy like that. Hook it up to a commlink with System 6/Firewall 6/Response 2/Signal 6 simply to avoid degrading the cluster's performance while boosting its Signal, and you're pretty much set.

You are not exactly the first person to notice. Unless they've realeased Unwired errata since I made that post, each Credstick adds 3 Process Limit to your cluster.

[Jaid]

I think riggers are wise to connect directly to the vehicle their physical body is in. Someone out there just might be able to beat your Firewall, but no one beats your fiber optic cable.

except technomancers with the skinlink echo.

[3278]

with an implanted commlink and a datajack you can still be cable connected (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif) (this is how my hacker gets around.)*


*of course, I'm driving in AR, it's a bike.

Exactly what my drone rigger does, too. His commlink runs the drone network, while his datajack runs the bike. Technically they're still networked, although they both have Firewalls of 6, which should at least slow an attacker down. I could go even further with my paranoia, but I haven't gotten screwed yet. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

except technomancers with the skinlink echo.

True that, although it's awful hard to touch me while I'm driving. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I mean, you could drop a dataline tap between my datajack and the vehicle, too, but if you're in the car [or on the bike] with me, I'm in bigger trouble. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[3278]

You are not exactly the first person to notice.

Fantastic post.