Character Build Challenge: Troll TM, Can it be done... ? Options

[The Jake]

Hi all

I am bouncing around a concept for SR -- a troll TM. I am thinking of a character that would be able to use the Subdual combat rules (Martial Arts ideally) and drag someone into VR and nuke them with Black or Psychotropic IC using Skinlink/Resonance Trodes. Now I can come up with a concept for an elven TM/face that is mean with a Pistol using Machine Sprites. But I want to try and use a troll instead and one that happens to be good with Unarmed Combat.

My goal is to create a TM that can hack but isn't an uber hacker as per usual. My concept was a troll, trying to put himself through college bouncing and doing some bodyguard work before he Emerged. My goal was to work in Threading pool (Analytical Mind, Paragon: Flow, Sourceror stream) but also has a good Perception (+Perceptive Positive Quality), can pick up on ambushes, detect human behaviour and know how to throw down.

On the plus side, there is a net gain with all the physical attributes. The penalties to mental attributes mean that a Troll TM is less encumbered by getting some augmentations (i.e. may as well since their mental attributes aren't likely to come close to their Resonance scores easily).

My problem is that everytime I try and play around with the numbers, I can't seem to get it to stack up. I either find the concept requires far too many Submersion grades to be viable (e.g. Skinlink + Resonance Trodes + Bioware + Acceleration x1+ = 4 grades minimum) or I have some severe gaps - e.g. decent physical attributes but sadly lacking mental attributes. It wouldn't be so bad being able to grow into the character but I find the concept is just too weak in too many ways that he would be subpar in too many areas.

Can someone tell me if this is even remotely viable? Should I stick with Karmagen over Build Points? Any input would be great.

Thanks

- J.

[Ascalaphus]

It should be doable, but tricky. I think Increased Attribute Maximum positive Quality is a must, as well as some Genetic Optimization treatments. Although those can be done later on in your career too (expensive in karma..)

[toturi]

My first instinct is that plain vanilla cyberadept might work better for your character.

[Nemrod]

Cybered Troll TM ?...... cerebral booster is your friend... I mean it ! Yummy logic boost.

[etherial]

I am bouncing around a concept for SR -- a troll TM.

Every time I see this thread, I think "You can't Trademark 'Troll'!!?!" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rollin.gif)

[The Jake]

Cerebral Boosters were my first bet, as well as a Logic or Willpower based TM stream. Next I was considering Muscle Toner, Synaptic Booster (1) or even Platelet Factory and Trauma Damper to help with Fade on overcasting. But once I start looking at Cyber I cannot find the cash to make it work.

I even tried knocking up a sample build here before I made my first post but even then, I just couldn't get the numbers to work. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

- J.

[Kerrang]

Can submersion even be done at Character Creation? To my knowledge you cannot take submersion when building your character, so that is your first problem with this concept, but maybe I overlooked something...

[Karoline]

Can submersion even be done at Character Creation? To my knowledge you cannot take submersion when building your character, so that is your first problem with this concept, but maybe I overlooked something...

He's using Karmagen. You can submerge/initiate with karmagen with GM permission.

[Kerrang]

He's using Karmagen. You can submerge/initiate with karmagen with GM permission.

In that case we have at least answered his last question, you cannot get to this concept using BP, Karmagen is going to be the only way to go (provided your GM allows).

[Mongoose]

What about various drugs that boost your mental stats? Do they benefit TMs? If so, they'd help any TM, but would work especially well for this guy. In background terms, he could be from a troll gang that deals those same drugs, maybe. And having a high body may help with certain drug drawbacks.

[The Jake]

He's using Karmagen. You can submerge/initiate with karmagen with GM permission.

I'm using either/or. I wouldn't expect the build to work necessarily out the post, I am willing to accept some areas for growth, so long as its playable.

- J.

[Karoline]

I'm using either/or. I wouldn't expect the build to work necessarily out the post, I am willing to accept some areas for growth, so long as its playable.

- J.

Not very used to TMs. I have an IC post I need to work on, but maybe a bit later I'll see what I can come up with.

[Jaid]

perhaps a latent TM, start by picking up the needed gear, stats, etc to be a melee combat monster, so that you don't have to deal with resonance loss. naturally, you'll need to talk it over with your GM, but even a resonance 1 technomancer can at least thread the needed CFs up to 2. plus, this means that you could invest in wired 1 or even wired 2 potentially, so long as you leave yourself with at least 1 point of essence. from then on, you can submerge and get an echo, then raise your resonance, (and have the option of learning another echo for 15 karma) and you can submerge again. should let you pull it off with only 2 submersions, i think (you'll be able to have 3 resonance, which means the most you can thread to is 6, and it shouldn't be hard to use sprites to go as high as 9, which is lots).

you will probably want to work out a deal where you can spend BP on certain qualities before you emerge though; paragon and analytical mind i think you mentioned were near the top of your list. either that or just save up all your karma right from the start.

so you would start off with resonance 1 and 3 complex forms at 1 once you emerge. that could be blackout, black hammer, and probably analyse.

[Karoline]

So, here is what I cooked up so far. Still about 50+ karma left to spend, but I figure this covers the basics of what you wanted.

[ Spoiler ]

Troll:
Bod:5 0 Str:5 0 Log:5 60 Edge:1 0
Agi:4 45 Cha:5 70 Wil:5 70 Ess:5
Rea:2 10 Int:5 70 Ini:7 Resonance:7(6) 135

Qualities:
Technomancer 10
Paragon 10
Genetic Heritage 20
Surge 10
Metagenic Improvement (Logic)
Something bad
Reality Impaired -10
Mild Media Junkie -10
Other stuff -50

Network submersion: 5
Submerged: 2 = 8 + 10
Echos: Skinlink, Resonance Trodes

Complex Forms: 2, 4, 7, 11, 16, 22
Analyze 2 4
Browse 2 4
Edit 2 4
Armor 4 11
Attack 4 11
Black Hammer 4 11
Decrypt 2 4
Exploit 4 11
Stealth 4 11


Skills: 4, 8, 14, 22, 32, 44 // 10, 20, 35, 55
Unarmed Combat (Subdual) 4 24
Gymnastics (Tumbling) 4 24
Compiling (Type) 4 24
Electronics (Computer, Data Search, Software, Hardware) 2 20
Cracking (Cybercombat, Hacking, Electronic Warfare) 4 55

Knowledge Skills:
Whatever

Contacts:
Whoever

Equipment:
Genetic Optimization (Charisma) .2 Free
Genetic Optimization (Intuition) .2 45000 * .8 = 36000
PuSHeD .1 15000 * .8 = 12000
Encephalon Rating 1 .75 30000

Technos are at a big disadvantage in Karmagen because their forms are more expensive than the normal 2:1 ratio that almost everything else beats.

[Mongoose]

I'd be tempted to make him a rather weak Technomancer, but decent at other things. Even hacker gangs need leg breakers, right? Even a pretty lame TM can accomplish a lot, since theres plenty you can do without even hacking, and lots of useful low-rating targets. Make him rather specialized (maybe a sprite master, as those seem the unique edge TMs get) if you want something he does well, and let him use a comlink for "serious" hacking.
Only drawback I see is this means he'd probably take his living icon offline on a regular basis, to avoid it getting hacked.

[The Jake]

I'd be tempted to make him a rather weak Technomancer, but decent at other things. Even hacker gangs need leg breakers, right? Even a pretty lame TM can accomplish a lot, since theres plenty you can do without even hacking, and lots of useful low-rating targets. Make him rather specialized (maybe a sprite master, as those seem the unique edge TMs get) if you want something he does well, and let him use a comlink for "serious" hacking.
Only drawback I see is this means he'd probably take his living icon offline on a regular basis, to avoid it getting hacked.

Or slaved to a decent commlink to prevent hacking.

- J.

[Sengir]

Only drawback I see is this means he'd probably take his living icon offline on a regular basis, to avoid it getting hacked.

Remember that a TM's living persona can only be hacked by another Resonance user, that makes a quite decent firewall (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Also I don't think that investing so much to improve Logic is worth it. The living persona's System rating (== your character's Logic) does not limit complex forms and does not matter for condition monitors, so unless you choose a "logician" stream or want to subscribe dozens of devices L 5 sounds like a good start.