Seattle "police"? Options

[TygerTyger]

I was just on the Sixth World wiki, and noted that Lone Star lost the police contract in Seattle in 2071. What book is this in? And who has the contract now?

I am just starting a game set in Seattle, and need to know! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[DWC]

Lone Star lost out to Knight Errant thanks to a mix of pressure from Ares and LS's complete failure to manage the surge of violence from the birth of the tempo trade. The details are in Seattle 2072.

[Ascalaphus]

I was just on the Sixth World wiki, and noted that Lone Star lost the police contract in Seattle in 2071. What book is this in? And who has the contract now?

I am just starting a game set in Seattle, and need to know! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Seattle 2072. It's a good buy if you're playing in Seattle anyway.

[TygerTyger]

Noted. Thank gods for being able to buy .pdfs from the developer directly. No worry about finding the book at one of my two local game stores.

Seattle 2072 it is. Thanks again.

[Red-ROM]

Noted. Thank gods for being able to buy .pdfs from the developer directly. No worry about finding the book at one of my two local game stores.

may they rest in peace

[Golgoth]

I know it's not usually worth it for most people, but I personally like to purchase physical copies from my LGS (Local Gaming Store(s)) to support the local gaming community. Otherwise I'm on the same boat, I love pdfs. Quick references and I type faster than I can write, so referencing and note taking are much much easier this way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[MikeKozar]

Lone Star lost out to Knight Errant thanks to a mix of pressure from Ares and LS's complete failure to manage the surge of violence from the birth of the tempo trade. The details are in Seattle 2072.

Details? Did yours come with details?

Seattle 2072 is awesome, and I'm glad to have it, but I personally have lots of questions about Knight Errant that didn't get addressed. The obvious one is: What does this change mean to Shadowrunners? As a GM, how do I convince my players that they're facing a different force then the one they've spent two decades with?

Lone Star made it very clear that they weren't "law officers", but "peace officers", meaning that they were responsible for order, not justice. Most of them were bitter, hateful head-crackers who would just as soon stomp you into the pavement as fill out an arrest report. Their investigative work was somewhere between shoddy and laughable, unless the victim was a 'real person', i.e. a rich Human. They weren't all Humanis sympathizers, but the odds were good that an Orc suspect would manage to 'fall down the stairs' in a one-floor police station.

I don't have any idea how Knight Errant operates. We could just assume it's a new bunch of thugs who will step right into the same patterns that the Star was famous for, keep the distopian status quo, but if that's the case why bother changing it? I'd like to see Knight Errant develop a flavor of their own, maybe go with the Zealous Templar archtype instead of the Cowboy motif that the Star used - being basically a good guy has never stopped a Paladin from being a pain in the ass.

The change is very interesting to me from a story point of view, but whatever backstory was supposed to explain what's going on, I never got. Maybe there's a new novel or an adventure module that would clue me in. If anybody here has any info, any info, on how Knight Errant is run, I would be very grateful.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

I know it's not usually worth it for most people, but I personally like to purchase physical copies from my LGS (Local Gaming Store(s)) to support the local gaming community. Otherwise I'm on the same boat, I love pdfs. Quick references and I type faster than I can write, so referencing and note taking are much much easier this way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

The problem of buying books from my LGS is that if I buy directly from, let's say, amazon, I pay almost half the price of my LGS, specially if I buy a big load of books.

[kzt]

Lone Star made it very clear that they weren't "law officers", but "peace officers", meaning that they were responsible for order, not justice. Most of them were bitter, hateful head-crackers who would just as soon stomp you into the pavement as fill out an arrest report. Their investigative work was somewhere between shoddy and laughable, unless the victim was a 'real person', i.e. a rich Human. They weren't all Humanis sympathizers, but the odds were good that an Orc suspect would manage to 'fall down the stairs' in a one-floor police station.

I don't have any idea how Knight Errant operates. We could just assume it's a new bunch of thugs who will step right into the same patterns that the Star was famous for, keep the distopian status quo, but if that's the case why bother changing it? I'd like to see Knight Errant develop a flavor of their own, maybe go with the Zealous Templar archtype instead of the Cowboy motif that the Star used - being basically a good guy has never stopped a Paladin from being a pain in the ass.

The change is very interesting to me from a story point of view, but whatever backstory was supposed to explain what's going on, I never got. Maybe there's a new novel or an adventure module that would clue me in. If anybody here has any info, any info, on how Knight Errant is run, I would be very grateful.

KE is considered to be a Knight personal project, probably the part of Ares he is most interested from a day to day view. So it largely reflects his personality.

Another thing to be kept in mind is that KE set off a nuke in downtown Chicago because they thought it was necessary, and their actions were retroactively affirmed by the UCAS government. So don't ever think "They can't possibly do that!" Yes we can!

So it's Hope and Change.

My expectation is that KE will be much less brutal in random ways but is more willing to use force in highly structured ways. And they will be willing to bring a lot more firepower if needed, and will have more skill in applying it.

They will force their people to do better reports and will deeply analyze the data produced and integrate it with the regional survailance network. And respond to provocations in a very prompt, effective and thorough fashion.

I'd expect that this would make it rather likely that people carrying out blatent crimes in policed area will tend to get stopped in the a permanent fashion. So the next time the hollweeners decide to do something in downtown will likely be the last time they do it. The next time someone sets up a roadblock on the Interstate through downtown will be the last time they do this. "pour encourager les autres."

But it also reduces the chances that you'll be randomly harassed by the cops if you look like your law abiding, not breaking the law, etc.

[etherial]

The problem of buying books from my LGS is that if I buy directly from, let's say, amazon, I pay almost half the price of my LGS, specially if I buy a big load of books.

Having physical stores to shop at is a luxury. It's one I'm willing to pay for.

[Daddy's Litt...]

Seattle one of the jewels for Lone Star contracts. Anyone know how the corp is handling the loss? Leaving behind sleeper units to screw with KE? Maybe moving police units under the umbrella of LS corp security to keep assets still in town. Did KE just move into the old LS offices or have to open/build their own facilities?

[Malachi]

Seattle one of the jewels for Lone Star contracts. Anyone know how the corp is handling the loss? Leaving behind sleeper units to screw with KE? Maybe moving police units uynder the umbrella of LS corp security to keep assets still in town. Did KE just move into the old LS offices or have to open/build their own facilities?

LS was able to retain the contract for the correctional facilities, which means KE is arresting people and once convicted, handing them over to LS. This and the questions you mentioned provide great story opportunities for GM's.

Don't wait for "official" things in books, go create your own stories people!

[TygerTyger]

Having physical stores to shop at is a luxury. It's one I'm willing to pay for.

And if either of my LGSs had these books, that might be something worth talking about. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I like stores too, but I also like being able to actually buy what I want.

[LivingOxymoron]

One thing to keep in mind... Lone Star still handles the Seattle Prison system, even thought they lost the policing contract.

Seattle one of the jewels for Lone Star contracts. Anyone know how the corp is handling the loss? Leaving behind sleeper units to screw with KE? Maybe moving police units under the umbrella of LS corp security to keep assets still in town. Did KE just move into the old LS offices or have to open/build their own facilities?

[Cenobite]

Speaking of Seattle police forces, does anyone know if either Lone Star or Knight Errant have official slogans? You know, something akin to "To Protect and Serve"?

[MikeKozar]

Speaking of Seattle police forces, does anyone know if either Lone Star or Knight Errant have official slogans? You know, something akin to "To Protect and Serve"?

"Shot while resisting arrest"?

[kzt]

"Shot while resisting arrest"?

"We kill more criminals before breakfast than most police forces do all day."

"Well, do ya punk?"

[TheFr0g]

"Miranda who?"

[ScandRun]

I loved the shift in law enforcement operation angle, allowed me to let my team cover up a couple of newbie slipups, when a disgruntled former lone star employee managed to lose some intel in the transfer of operations process. This of course costed them more than a few nuyen (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .

[Semerkhet]

Don't wait for "official" things in books, go create your own stories people!

I've been exploring how the change from LS to KE has been affecting the Ork Underground. LS was seen as more racist, but KE was brought in by a Governor with alleged ties to Humanis. How is KE going to walk that line between doing what they, and Damien Knight, think is right and what the Metroplex Governor wants them to do?.

Also, some of the fluff in Seattle 2072 highlights the problems of transition. LS had decades in which to come to an equilibrium with the vast and varied Underworld of Seattle. In many cases it wasn't pretty, but it kept a lid on the seething kettle. Now that KE has taken over, LS is in no mood to play friendly mentor as KE is forced to re-tread decades worth of hard-won experience with the unique Seattle 'plex. KE hasn't helped matters by refusing to hire very many former LS cops and those that they do hire lose all seniority. No one is the good guy here, as usual.

One story line that just pops into my head is a shadowrun in which the team is hired to extract a senior Lone Star official with detailed knowledge of how Lone Star dealt with some thorny issue in Seattle. Said official could be anywhere from back in the CAS to being a shadowrunner in Denver, and so on. Possibilities abound.

[nezumi]

1) Since when was KE especially ork-friendly? Statistically speaking, orks are just more likely to be barren trash, and are, mathematically, worth harassing.

2) Definitely true though, Lone Star brokered a lot of deals with a lot of bad dudes (and had a lot of turncoats and deep-cover operatives on their payroll). LS won't have to do much to stir the pot with them. The syndicates are going to have to decide who they like better. If the Yaks got along better with LS, expect large segments of Seattle to burn.

[Sixgun_Sage]

KE is considered to be a Knight personal project, probably the part of Ares he is most interested from a day to day view. So it largely reflects his personality.

Another thing to be kept in mind is that KE set off a nuke in downtown Chicago because they thought it was necessary, and their actions were retroactively affirmed by the UCAS government. So don't ever think "They can't possibly do that!" Yes we can!

So it's Hope and Change.

My expectation is that KE will be much less brutal in random ways but is more willing to use force in highly structured ways. And they will be willing to bring a lot more firepower if needed, and will have more skill in applying it.

They will force their people to do better reports and will deeply analyze the data produced and integrate it with the regional survailance network. And respond to provocations in a very prompt, effective and thorough fashion.

I'd expect that this would make it rather likely that people carrying out blatent crimes in policed area will tend to get stopped in the a permanent fashion. So the next time the hollweeners decide to do something in downtown will likely be the last time they do it. The next time someone sets up a roadblock on the Interstate through downtown will be the last time they do this. "pour encourager les autres."

But it also reduces the chances that you'll be randomly harassed by the cops if you look like your law abiding, not breaking the law, etc.

So much This!... Knight Errant might not be better on a man for man basis (though I doubt this very much) but have a superior record and organizational model. Bad for the lower echelons of the shadow business, though competent runners will still find room to work if only because those with a professional mindset won't make a point of doing things KE has to respond to in force.

[Snow_Fox]

The removal of LS should be creating massive shock waves in Seattle's underworld communities. Without bringing up corruption just the change of agents, from guys on the beat up to investigative detectives means that what ever police proceedures and habits you were use to are gone. You are learning them from scratch all over again. Not just what the police will let you get away with and what they won't but where are their patrols operating?

Just as an example from RL. I have found, for the most part, the PA state troopers and local police to be really good guys who are more concerned with people being safe than busting chops. By comparrison the New Jersey state troopers I've encountered tend to be like a bad stereotype of a dumb cop. I'm sure there are good cops in 'Jersey and bad ones in PA but the general rule of thumb is as I've said. Now suppose they suddenly announce that, for whatever reason, PA troopers will be pulled back west of Harrisburg and this part of the state will be covered by Jersey troopers. All of a sudden I've got to learn to adjust to a whole new group of police with a markedly different rep and apparent outlook.

No in SR add corruption into the mix. Letys say certain elements of LS were bribed for protection of lookingh the other way, even if KE is just as corrupt (unlikely since it is Knight's person pet and damn near flagship example of Ares on a street level and out to prove they are better than LS) the Seattle underworld is gonig to be renegotiating all those deals all over again. Maybe KE cracks down on the smuggler routes to prove they can and bust some heads as an example of how much better than LS they are:

Tonight, Knight Errant declared they have stopped a major source of BTL's coming into Seattle from Cascade Crow regions of the Sidhe-salish lands. Evidence shows this network has been in place for several years. KE spokewoman Captain Leslie Rosen said in a press release:

"Evidence suggests that these agents have been side stepping Lone Stare patrols with ease for at lease 37 months."

[MikeKozar]

Now in SR add corruption into the mix. Letys say certain elements of LS were bribed for protection of lookingh the other way, even if KE is just as corrupt (unlikely since it is Knight's person pet and damn near flagship example of Ares on a street level and out to prove they are better than LS) the Seattle underworld is gonig to be renegotiating all those deals all over again. Maybe KE cracks down on the smuggler routes to prove they can and bust some heads as an example of how much better than LS they are:

Good point. I've seen the 'Devil you know' theme come up in lots of organized crime fiction - when you shake up the status quo, somebody new is going to move into the power vacuum. It won't always be someone better. If the drug market was pretty much cornered by one group, and you take that group out, suddenly you have a dozen wanna-bes trying to grab that market. The new gangs are probably going to be in open warfare trying to become the next big syndicate. The old guard was predictable, reasonable, expected, but the new guys are drunk on power and 'making examples' of people who show disrespect.

It gets more interesting when a major crime syndicate gets shut down in an area and the syndicate from the next town simply moves in. You got rid of the Godfather - Say hello to the Oyabun. Same problems, different crew, and now none of your snitches know the score either.

[imperialus]

Good point. I've seen the 'Devil you know' theme come up in lots of organized crime fiction - when you shake up the status quo, somebody new is going to move into the power vacuum. It won't always be someone better. If the drug market was pretty much cornered by one group, and you take that group out, suddenly you have a dozen wanna-bes trying to grab that market. The new gangs are probably going to be in open warfare trying to become the next big syndicate. The old guard was predictable, reasonable, expected, but the new guys are drunk on power and 'making examples' of people who show disrespect.

It gets more interesting when a major crime syndicate gets shut down in an area and the syndicate from the next town simply moves in. You got rid of the Godfather - Say hello to the Oyabun. Same problems, different crew, and now none of your snitches know the score either.

Exactly. Just look at what has happened in Mexico over the past few years. The government took jurisdiction away from the police, handed it over to the army. The army started killing cartel leaders (heck, they just offed another one a couple days ago). The problem is, every time they do this three of his former liutenents all get it in their heads that they should be in charge and start killing each other.