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> What edition do you use? and why?
HANZO
post Dec 19 2009, 03:35 AM
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I'm not trying to start a flame or edition war. I'm just wondering what editions every one is into.

Personally I'm currently running 3rd, I'm reading over and toying with running 4th.

Iv run 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. To me the system has always stood out to me. Its one of the only games That I didn't just convert to another system. which I do with most settings. For some reason to me the "flavor" of the system is shadowrun to me.

That is really the only thing standing between me and 4th edition. Its a whole new system for the most part. I figure if I'm going to convert to a totally new system than why not GURPS (which is my main go to generic system). Which is what I do with most games I play.

I trust that 4th is a good system as my friend ( spoonfunk here on the boards) runs it and likes it. He was part of my original 1st and 2nd edition games going back some 15 or so years ago. So im not saying that I don't think its an ok system. That is just my reason for using 3rd. I just feel the older system is shadowrun to me.
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Mercer
post Dec 19 2009, 04:00 AM
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I feel the same way. It's not a knock against 4th, it's just that SR3 (and SR2) represent a pretty significant chunk of my gaming life. Some of the best games of my life were SR2 and SR3. Now when my group plays SR, we play 4th, but that's only one or two games a year, if that. (The last SR game to wrap up was mine, which ran about six sessions 18 months ago.)

SR4 has some similarities with previous editions but that actually screws me up more. If it was a totally different system, I'd have to learn it from scratch. As it is, my mind is a Frankenstein patchwork of all editions, and I can never remember which rule is for which edition. (It doesn't help that along with the rule changes, the new edition changed various things about the SR world itself, which is in some ways unavoidable but still makes it difficult for me to remember what's going on half the time.)

Nowadays if we're looking for a pick-up game, SR4 falls pretty far down on the list largely because of handling times; we spend more time trying to figure out how to play rather than playing. It's not a game you can pick up once or twice a year. To be fair, the previous editions of SR were the same way, but we were playing a lot of those games so we got the handling time down to manageable levels.

It's also worth noting that the part of my life SR2-3 occupied (some might say dominated) cannot be recaptured. Those were the post-high school, early college days when two of my roommates played and we might game 2 or 3 nights a week with whoever stopped by, each session lasting at least 8 hours. I still play with a lot of the same people, but now we have jobs, some of us are married, some of us are married with kids, and we have maybe 1 four hour session a week to play. It's like the blipvert version of gaming.

If I were going to a deserted island with a small number of gamers and I could only bring one system of books, it would be SR3, hands down. But in the real world I play what I can play when I can play it, which means I don't get to play SR very often.
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Maelstrome
post Dec 19 2009, 04:29 AM
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i play sr3 mostly because of its extensive material and ive already got it. i just havent bothered buying fourth yet.
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Kagetenshi
post Dec 19 2009, 04:47 AM
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SR3; it's a deeply flawed system, but it has some awesome ideas (combat pool!, difficulty increases causing exponential dropoff in success rates but in general not creating situations where things become actually impossible, magic-doesn't-just-work-however-you-want-it-to, etc.), essentially none of which survived the transition into 4th edition.

(There are other issues, but you can just read the archives from 2006 for those.)

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The Jake
post Dec 19 2009, 05:51 AM
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I did deeply love SR3 but SR4 is more playable of the two.

The only thing I miss is things like the Combat Dice Pool but this has been more or less supplanted by Edge. Only problem is you have less dice and not as many players make full use of Edge.

- J.
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Dikotana
post Dec 19 2009, 09:41 AM
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SR3 for me. It has wonky subsystems for everything, and I dearly love (most of) them.
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Summerstorm
post Dec 19 2009, 11:30 AM
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While i like the third more, i am playing 4rth now. Why? Because most of my group are pretty new and bought all the books of it, and now insist on using them *g*.

The overall feeling of the setting, dice mechanics, magic, technology and such i like 3rd better... But the 4th is ok.... i guess. Even though i have problems getting my magician and his spirits under control, don't like the wireless matrix and the world got a bit "softer and nicer" it seems.

Ah and what we used back then was the (2nd edition?) Initiative rules: if someone had ini 24 and another had 13... well to bad: person A can whoop your ass two times till you can do anything... loved that.
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Medicineman
post Dec 19 2009, 12:47 PM
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I prefer the 4A Edition. I've been Playing SR2 and 3 for more than 7-8 Years but the rules were
allways a Patchwork and we had to "mend" so much with Houserules,that at the End it wasn't Fun anymore and I nearly lost my Interest in SR in general,but than came the 4th Ed Rules and even though the first (German) BBB was flawed the Rules itself inspired me. Jup,SR has changed; its not "Max Headroom" anymoore its more like "Minority Report" but I like & welcome the Change.

with a changed Dance
Medicineman
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Doc Byte
post Dec 19 2009, 02:08 PM
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I converted to SR4 the moment it was available and I love it. Not (only) because of the rules but the updated setting. SR4 turned the outdated late 80s Cyberpunk into a believable 21th century near future game. It was about time when the iPhone was starting to overtake a cyberdeck.
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Moirdryd
post Dec 19 2009, 04:34 PM
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SR3 for me all the way (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Mostly because I already own it all and some of the SR4 mechanics dont mesh with the way i like the feel of my SR.
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Malachi
post Dec 19 2009, 05:19 PM
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I run SR4 all the way now. It has its flaws, but I find it more unified that previous editions. My groups never really like Dice Pools so our reaction to them being gone was "it's about time." My favourite part is the Wireless Matrix which means that you can actually have the Matrix specialist do their thing and be a part of the group now. Deckers were completely non-existent (with only 1 exception - which was a hybrid character) as PCs in my SR2 and SR3 groups.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Dec 19 2009, 06:05 PM
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Since all of my SR3 material was stolen, I adopted SR4 with open arms... The system, to me, is a lot better (I hated all of those wonky sub-systems that were in SR3) and more streamlined... the dice mechanics were much better, the fluff changes were interesting, and the introduction of the Wireless Matrix was long in coming but was greatly appreciated...

Keep the Faith
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Molly Hayes
post Dec 19 2009, 06:25 PM
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SR3

Because Otaku rock, Technomancers are crippled.
Because Shamans and Mages are different traditions and have distinct differences.
Because I like my Matrix to be wired. I don't like that you have to update your pop up blocker before a run.
Because I like the NAN. Just because you want to focus on more global things, don't forget the home front.
Because I like the dice. Are you kidding me? A 5 or a 6 is a success, a 1 is a glitch. What about the other three sides? Oh..forget them.
Because I like Karma Pool. You've been a runner for a while, fate has taken a shine to you. Not asked you to spend 30 BP.
Because I like Riggers. I don't like that anyone with a high tech Blackberry can rig.
Because I like cyberpunk. Shadowrun is moving away from its Cyberpunk origins in my opinion. Seems more shiny and polished as opposed to grim and gritty.
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Sixgun_Sage
post Dec 19 2009, 06:36 PM
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SR4, I loved SR3, but 4 polished the system, made it more streamlined and faster moving in alot of ways it needed (dice pools just didn't work well in my opinion) and the setting advancements make sense, the world should be settling a bit, people have had a 60+ years to get used to trolls, magic, cybernetics and the lot. SURGE? Ok, so now the troll is covered by blue fur and has a prehensile tongue, good for him, can I go back to watching my favorite show? Some rules still need some work, but nothing is perfect and I genuinely enjoy the sleeker, sharper and slightly lighter shade of grey in SR4, and hey, if you mistake that lighter shade of grey for the light that is your bad, chummer.
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Stumps
post Dec 20 2009, 04:34 AM
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SR3...but gutted completely.
The only reason I haven't moved to SR4 is that I like the core mechanics of SR3 best of all.
So...I just stripped it to that.

I don't even use modifiers much to be honest.
I just use the difficulty chart.
That and, like I said, I've more or less re-built the entire system from the ground up in many areas and without much difficulty I found.

Most of the folks over at the SR3R know my strange approaches already, and I like continuing work with them to overhaul that version as well.

Keeps my grey matter tickled.


*For any that don't know what SR3R is, it's a rework overhaul of SR3 lead by Kagetenshi. You can find the work being done at: http://www.sr3r.net/forum/
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Snow_Fox
post Dec 20 2009, 02:58 PM
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A mix but predominatnely SR3

We liked how those systems worked and jived together, it's where we put a significant chunk of change and it's what we're use to. We didn't see a good reason to stumble along learning the new system, which did seem to have a few problems for mechanics, when we were quite happy with the 3rd ed- and isn't HAPPY why we do this?

We did adapt the 4th ed hacking rules because, while I know people bitch and moan and say they're flawed, they seem vastly superios play wise to anything else that's come along, let's facei t the hecking/decking computer warefre line has always been the weak reed in the SR game play because of how it brought other players to a screaming halt.

We keep an eye out for new cyber/bioware and weapons which can easily be converted to 3rd ed rules so while 4th Ed has it's uses, we're staying 3rd ed and enjoying ourselves.
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Thanee
post Dec 20 2009, 03:28 PM
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SR4(A) all the way.

Have played all editions (though mostly SR2), and back then we developed a set of house rules, which really comes pretty close to what 4th edition has done (dice pool modifiers instead of TN modifiers; drastically lowering costs of equipment (esp. 'ware) to make money flow more reasonable; Karmagen (ok, that one has been around in SR3 already); etc.), so the 4th edition was very welcome. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Also, I always liked the elegance of the World of Darkness system (rolling attribute + skill in various combinations), even though I never played it much, and the SR4 system, which is very similar, works very smooth and a lot more intuitively.

Bye
Thanee
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Snow_Fox
post Dec 20 2009, 04:24 PM
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Interestinly it's the WoD style system stuff that was our big turn off. Combining which attribute with what skill? it seemed to adda new step in calculatinos working stuff out, more realistic but , to us, a needless complication of game play more like the old 1st ed rules.
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etherial
post Dec 20 2009, 04:41 PM
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Having only played SR3 and SR4A, I'm leaning slightly toward SR4A. The system is much more streamlined, the karma expenditure table is about half the size, and, so far, no books present themselves as being absolutely mandatory other than SR4A.
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RedeemerofOgar
post Dec 20 2009, 04:43 PM
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QUOTE (Summerstorm @ Dec 19 2009, 07:30 AM) *
While i like the third more, i am playing 4rth now. Why? Because most of my group are pretty new and bought all the books of it, and now insist on using them *g*.

The overall feeling of the setting, dice mechanics, magic, technology and such i like 3rd better... But the 4th is ok.... i guess. Even though i have problems getting my magician and his spirits under control, don't like the wireless matrix and the world got a bit "softer and nicer" it seems.


I'm completely in the same boat. The GM and I have talked about it, and she said that she had really wanted to try 4th, but now that she has she'd switch back to 3rd if we started a new campaign.

I do like that the 4e wireless world made deckers into viable team characters, but they went overboard to the point where deckers STILL require much of the spotlight of game time, and now they can accomplish far too much. The Sams seem almost irrelevant on even a halfway-well-planned run - the decker does the legwork, then opens the doors, kills the security systems, disables enemy comms, etc. The mage cleans up after, uses spirits for overkill levels of invis/concealment and movement, and occasionally modifies memories. The face fast-talks to save the mage some drain. Seems like the sammies really only have a job to do when we encounter paranormal bad guys...
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Thanee
post Dec 20 2009, 05:01 PM
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QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Dec 20 2009, 05:24 PM) *
Interestinly it's the WoD style system stuff that was our big turn off. Combining which attribute with what skill? it seemed to adda new step in calculatinos working stuff out, more realistic but , to us, a needless complication of game play more like the old 1st ed rules.


Yeah, opinions differ, of course. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

One thing I like about it is, that i.e. someone with the Pistols skill could also roll Logic + Pistols to show knowledge that automatically comes with the practice, while Agility + Pistols is used to fire it (the standard application of the skill). It's quite flexible that way. Knowledge Skills do not really cover that stuff... and if they would, you would need basically one Knowledge Skill for every halfway decent Active Skill you got. I prefer Knowledge Skills to cover areas, that the Active Skills do not touch at all.

Bye
Thanee
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nezumi
post Dec 20 2009, 05:02 PM
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sr3. My favorite Shadowrun, and my favorite system in general. I keep pushing it on all my gamer friends (much to the chagrin of my wife).
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Snow_Fox
post Dec 20 2009, 05:11 PM
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Thanee, I agree it is far more realistic to do it that way but in mechanics I think that is why like the and initiative combat pool are, among other htings a combination of intelligence and quickness, at least in earlier editions but that doesn't cover other things, like driving-or climbing etc. BUT and itis a matter of taste, we felt it was getting too mechanical to approach everything like that. realistic but slowing the mechanics more than we liked.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Dec 20 2009, 05:14 PM
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QUOTE (Thanee @ Dec 20 2009, 10:01 AM) *
Yeah, opinions differ, of course. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

One thing I like about it is, that i.e. someone with the Pistols skill could also roll Logic + Pistols to show knowledge that automatically comes with the practice, while Agility + Pistols is used to fire it (the standard application of the skill). It's quite flexible that way. Knowledge Skills do not really cover that stuff... and if they would, you would need basically one Knowledge Skill for every halfway decent Active Skill you got. I prefer Knowledge Skills to cover areas, that the Active Skills do not touch at all.

Bye
Thanee



I agree, this is a great benefit of the Skill + Attribute System...

Keep the Faith
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Shinobi Killfist
post Dec 20 2009, 05:26 PM
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none at the moment. I can't say what killed the enthusiasm for the game we were playing since I honestly don't know, but if we were to play again I'd prefer either 2nd or 3rd edition.

I don't think 4e is any more streamlined than the previous editions it just uses a different core mechanic and has subsystems galore still. 1-3e was roll dice vs BASE TN with modifiers changing the TN. 4e is roll dice vs 5 with modifiers changing the dice. On both sides of the GMing screen I prefer the 1-3 approach. As a GM I think its quicker for the player to always know how many dice he is going to roll and for me to say tell me how many X's you got, that for me to tell him how many dice to withhold from X modifiers. And for both sides of the screen I think the 1-3 method handles scaling difficulty better and handles a wider range of character power ranges. For me 4e breaks down completely around 14+dice, the only thing that broke 1-3 was the karma pool and edge is almost as bad in 43 but you can just start with it.
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