Advancement for Adepts, Is there more than Initiation? Options

[Dakka Dakka]

Uh? Adept powers and drain? What adept powers and drain?

I think etherial was talking about regular centering. This would only help for Attribute Boost as this Power actually causes drain:

When the boost runs out, you must resist Drain equal to the Attribute Boost rating using Willpower + Body; each hit reduces the Drain Value by one. Attribute Boost Drain is Stun damage.

Woops, I just checked and by RAW adepts could only use regular Centering and not Adept Centering (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)

Note that adepts can only learn the metamagic techniques of Centering, Flexible Signature, and Masking.

I know this is a simple error and the RAI is that they can use at least Adept Centering and possibly even normal Centering.

[etherial]

While Centering may be available to adepts it doesn't make much sense. The only Power that actually causes drain is the Attribute Boost IIRC, and only if someone takes a lot of levels in it does the drain increase to an amount where centering is needed.

Some of the Adept Metamagics also cause Drain, like the ones that let you move attribute points around.


Dakka Dakka, reread your SR4A. Mine specifically lists Adept Centering *and* Centering.

[Jhaiisiin]

Either way, Street Magic has to supersede that or else Adepts only get 4 options period ever.

[Falconer]

I agree Jhaiisiin...

Just like I said, the suggested house rule was suggested before the cost change for raising magic attributes.

I think it's a good idea given the shortage of adept powers. Just I believe w/ the cost changes the amount of power points it should award should be cut in half. (.5PP per initiation since initiating is roughly half as cheap as raising magic).

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

You forgot Centering.

Indeed I did... Oooops

Keep the Faith

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I think etherial was talking about regular centering. This would only help for Attribute Boost as this Power actually causes drain:


Woops, I just checked and by RAW adepts could only use regular Centering and not Adept Centering (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)
I know this is a simple error and the RAI is that they can use at least Adept Centering and possibly even normal Centering.

Actually, that is in the main book... Street Magic increases the number of Metamagic available to Adepts greatly...

As for Centering itself, it would also be useful against the Infusion Metamagic Drain as well...

Keep the Faith

[Glyph]

I agree Jhaiisiin...

Just like I said, the suggested house rule was suggested before the cost change for raising magic attributes.

I think it's a good idea given the shortage of adept powers. Just I believe w/ the cost changes the amount of power points it should award should be cut in half. (.5PP per initiation since initiating is roughly half as cheap as raising magic).

Why? Regardless of what initiation costs, either a power point is about the equivalent of a metamagic, or it is not. If you like the house rule but think a power point is too much, I could see your rationale for reducing it. But if you are doing it because initiation is cheaper compared to raising Magic now, then you should also be limiting mages to one metamagic every other initiation, too.

[Jhaiisiin]

Hell, if you really wanna jack up the costs, insist that they cannot initiate again until they raise their magic to fill the point gap created by initiating.

[Falconer]

Why? Regardless of what initiation costs, either a power point is about the equivalent of a metamagic, or it is not. If you like the house rule but think a power point is too much, I could see your rationale for reducing it. But if you are doing it because initiation is cheaper compared to raising Magic now, then you should also be limiting mages to one metamagic every other initiation, too.

I disagree... while your angle is worth advocating as well. I have no opinion on the value of a metamagic vs. a power point as they're different, and advance differently. Something else to consider, raising a powerpoint metamagic still raises the initiate grade advancing the other metamagics (masking, adept centering, etc. which gain higher threshholds or more dice as initiate grade increases). So you're not merely gaining, only a power point, as you would if you were advancing magic instead (at a higher cost to boot).

Think about it this way, under the old 3x advancement costs... 10+3x init grade got you advance in all your metamagics + a power point... or you could do 3x magic and gain the same power point.... Costwise, you'd generally keep your initiate grade ~3 points under your magic rating. Now with the change to 5x cost... initiation no longer costs more than magic, and it makes initiation a much more powerful option. (this is a bigger change than some think.. it's surprised my GM that I'd rather initiate than raise raw magic lately).

Either 1PP is worth the cost in magic or it isn't. To arbitrarily allow 'half cost' by using metamagic w/ a suggestion for a house rule (again this suggestion didn't even make optional rule status) is rather contrary to the change in attribute costs that SR4a rightly. That's all I'm saying. I like the spirit of the rule, but given the changes in costs which have occured since... think some tweaking is called for.

I also note nobody noticed or commented when I pointed out another 'undercosted' option. Pay 15 karma to learn a metamagic w/o initiating which did make it as an optional rule suggestion. Do you feel it's right that an adept could learn power points for a flat 15karma fee, w/o initiating. (this had the slight change that, you could still only know as many metamagics as your magic rating... so you'd still need to initiate... eventually), but it did give you 2 or 3 'cheap' advances if you use the two together.