 Power Armor in Shadowrun |
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 Feb 4 2004, 03:17 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 669 Joined: 25-May 03 Member No.: 4,634  |
I made these rules up in a white heat over the last four hours or so. Typos are to be expected. I realize in advance that these are "high power" rules, so anyone wishing to helpfully inform me of how "overpowered" they are can take their business elsewhere if they seek a response. What I mainly need commentary on is:
-How easy to understand are the rules? Do they make sense? -Are they useable, that is, do they make useful things? -How much would one of them weigh? I'm a little fuzzy on the math... Power Armor in Shadowrun Also, does anyone know of any other attempts to do this? |
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Feb 4 2004, 03:43 AM
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#2
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
It's not quite the same thing, but someone did do a Shadowrun/Bubblegum Crisis conversion.
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Feb 4 2004, 03:54 AM
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#3
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,028 Joined: 9-November 02 From: The Republic of Vermont Member No.: 3,581 |
I haven't read through your rules in detail yet, but we have had power armor in Shadowrun discussions in the past. I designed the Ares Spartan Combat Suit using the Rigger 3 vehicle design rules in the course of one of those, just using a Large Anthroform frame with a passenger added.
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Feb 4 2004, 04:01 AM
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#4
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Target Group: Members Posts: 56 Joined: 21-July 03 From: the Worcester Barrens Member No.: 4,997 |
nice idea for adaptation... but please please kill the green on green.
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Feb 4 2004, 04:10 AM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 114 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 2,137 |
I like it,but would change a few things...
1. allow arms to be controlled manually, big o style, not just when jacked in with datajack or vcr 2. magic/cyberware initiative bonuses in combat... Just cause I feel riggers should have a larger bonus when using them 3. no smartgun bonuses, offer a hud display for a couple of option points that offer the same bonus |
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Feb 4 2004, 04:23 AM
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#6
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,049 Joined: 24-March 03 Member No.: 4,323 |
For fun, one time I sat down and designed a suit of power armor using rigger 3 rules. My operating principle was that it had to be available at chargen, assuming there were no prototype markup costs. I didnt spend a lot of time on it, and I could have made some mistakes, but it's certainly in the general region of possibility. (the numbers in parentheses are design point costs)
large anthroform chassis (900) fuel cell (600) smart materials - max speed, accel, load +15% (100) CF 10 (40) load 575 (48) handling -2 (50) 1 entry point speed 58 (96) contingency maneuver controls 6 (450) Armor 8 (400) (load - 360) bucket seat (-6 cf) Rating 4 sensors (125) (-2cf) strength enhancement +5 (990) 4 fixed firmpoints (40) level 4 recoil compensation (160) total 159,960 (8/8days) You could also, of course, install retractable tracking mounts and cyberguns and things in the arms... but doing so as a design option would increase the price too much to keep an availability of 8. |
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Feb 4 2004, 04:39 AM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 482 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 90 |
I still think the lack of power armor in Shadowrun is a conspiracy by the medical industry (and the corps that are involved in such). Cause so much more money is spent on cyber-implantation (surgery costs, doctors fees), maintenance (return doctor visits, anti-rejection drugs), research and development funds (everyone wants to pioneer and profit from the newest advancement in the cyber-tech).
Think about the various militarys, the medical contractors and the military spending budgets/moneys for maintaining the armed forces cybered troops. Or it could also be a back-room compromise/conspiracy between the medical industry (cyberware) and the mechanical industry (drones/vehicles) so that both may profit but neither gaining a monopoly on the security/military industry. |
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Feb 4 2004, 05:51 AM
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#8
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,028 Joined: 9-November 02 From: The Republic of Vermont Member No.: 3,581 |
.... Did I just miss it, or have you not placed a maximum limit on the ratings of armor frames/engines/etc.?
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Feb 4 2004, 08:41 AM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 5-November 03 Member No.: 5,792 |
Has anyone considered just using Heavy Hardened Military Grade armour, and adding various bits of cyberware, such as cyberarms and legs with increased strength, cyberarm weapons...
The suits wouldn't be as mech-like as the Rigger 3 ones, but they'd be quite good at simulating armour which improves the wearer's strength & quickness, without making them vehicles in their own right. |
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Feb 4 2004, 12:42 PM
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#10
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Target Group: Members Posts: 63 Joined: 8-November 03 Member No.: 5,803 |
A slightly obsessive compulsive friend of mind created this:
http://members.westnet.com.au/edchow/battl...ed%20Armour.xls Created for a Battletech game using ShadowRun rules. It's basically a program for creating powered armored, using an Excel spreadsheet. The DM did everything in excel. Character sheets, floor plans, everything. We often joked that one day he wouldn't bother turning up, since he had written a spreadsheet that could DM for him. |
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Feb 4 2004, 04:10 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 194 Joined: 24-January 04 Member No.: 6,013 |
I'm sorry, but I can't get this image of a Troll walking down the street in full fledged Space Marine Terminator armor, and the Star looking REALLY confused.
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Feb 4 2004, 05:10 PM
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#12
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
By the by, if you want some semi-premade stuff, check out Cyberpunk 2020, Maximum Metal. You could probably find some rules online, but they have a whole premade set of powered armor stuff, and it'd be fairly easy to convert.
Power Armor is fun : ) I'd be interested in seeing it used in a game, because it doesn't especially help one type of character significantly more than another. |
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Feb 4 2004, 05:59 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 527 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,118 |
I just integrated the rules for hardened military-grade combat armor and for JIM suits(variable Strength rating from 7-10), and some with integral Max-Gyro gyromounts. It integrates the datajack functionality and rigger benefits, but doesn't ruin you if you're not augmented.
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Feb 4 2004, 08:09 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 669 Joined: 25-May 03 Member No.: 4,634 |
danbot:
This requires perhaps a clarification in the rules. The frame comes with limbs that the user's actual limbs fit into and can be moved around like normal limbs. The mechanical arm attachement is an extra limb that is not connected to or controlled by any part of the user's body. Thus, without really clumsy verbal commands, a datajack or VCR is the only way I can think of to use it.
Are you saying that magic/cyberware initiative bonuses should not apply while using power armor? I like the idea of only riggers getting the bonus in theory, but I can't think of any logical reason why other initiative enhancement shouldn't work just because a character is wearing power armor.
This would be machanically the same as a Smartgoggle system, and thus would only provide half the normal smartlink bonus. The system already comes with a HUD (to monitor power levels and damage), perhaps smartgoggle bonuses for mounted smartguns could be standard... John campbell:
I didn't... but thinking about it, there should be. Otherwise, the system would get so bulky that any argument for intuitive and natural limb use would become untenable. Let's say frame rating 8 and engine rating 10 are the theoretical maximums. Dax:
Um, I'm not sure I understand your comment. Power armor has a legal code indicating that it's military-grade gear, and simple possesion carries a minimum 8000 nuyen fine and a 2-year prison sentence. I think I may have messed up the legal codes though... lower is supposed to be more obviously illegal, right? Then the legal codes should be 2 for frames and maybe 4 for engines. |
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Feb 4 2004, 09:21 PM
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#15
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,047 Joined: 12-November 03 From: Perilously close to the Sioux Nation. Member No.: 5,818 |
Nah, it's not a conspiracy.
I think it's more because this is a magic/cyberpunk setting, not as much as a high-level science fiction. Without some complex negative feedback loops, the only real way power armor would work is as a VCR type thing. Which would still be difficult, since you have to move the rigger at the same time as the suit. And then the corp is like "woah, let's just make a drone, since it's lighter and cheaper than trying to put a metahuman in it." |
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Feb 4 2004, 09:33 PM
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#16
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
It was a joke based on the humor of mixed-up genres: Warhammer 40K (I think) power armor crossed with a Shadowrun troll. :P |
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Feb 4 2004, 09:42 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 194 Joined: 24-January 04 Member No.: 6,013 |
Right in one guess. :D |
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Feb 4 2004, 10:44 PM
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#18
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,049 Joined: 24-March 03 Member No.: 4,323 |
Plus, why make something less efficient than rigging when you already have that technology available?
Except for the fact that drones are vulnerable to electronic warfare and rigger emulation, making them unreliable in warfare against technologically advanced opponents. There is definitely a niche for power-armor/mobile suit types of things (especially considering the silly fact that you can fit more guns onto a pair of articulated limbs than you can onto a small car). I think you hit on the best reason thus mentioned thus far for their lack of existence in SR canon, though, with the gritty cyberpunk/snazzy magic vs high tech scifi comment. |
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Feb 4 2004, 11:10 PM
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#19
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
A competent robotic pilot can overcome those obstacles and keep drones going strong. Without a rigger.
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Feb 4 2004, 11:22 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 669 Joined: 25-May 03 Member No.: 4,634 |
On a purely personal note, I got bored with the original "how practical is power armor in SR?" debate after the first post on the subject in the other PA thread. So by all means, continue with this tired old saw if you must, but I won't be replying: I'm making these rules for style.
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Feb 4 2004, 11:35 PM
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#21
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,049 Joined: 24-March 03 Member No.: 4,323 |
Unless, of course, theres a robotic pilot of equal or greater competence on the other side, devoting his time and effort to thwarting your competent robotic pilot. |
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Feb 5 2004, 12:42 AM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 669 Joined: 25-May 03 Member No.: 4,634 |
The rules have been updated. Mostly for clarity of prose/form and with some new features.
Another question I'd like to pose is: how plausible are the costs? |
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Feb 5 2004, 07:22 AM
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#23
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Target Group: Members Posts: 54 Joined: 18-March 02 Member No.: 2,411 |
:o
/me pats Lucky I always interpreted the "walker-bot" rules in the Rigger books as a way to have powered armor-like devices. Just add a human interface and you're good to go. |
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Feb 5 2004, 01:33 PM
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#24
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Shouldn't you be asking: How much style have the costs got? I'm not one of the people who go on about the plausibility of power armor existing in SR either. I actually used two of John Campbell's Ares Spartans in one situation. But since the plausibility of power armor is a non-issue, then so should the plausibility of the prices be. Compare the prices to other, less stylish but similarly effective vehicles. Use a modifier based on just how good a thing you think stylish is: If Style Is Everything, power armor should cost about 0.5x that of conventional ground vehicles of same effectiveness. If Style Is Sorta OK, 1.5x. |
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Feb 5 2004, 03:04 PM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 669 Joined: 25-May 03 Member No.: 4,634 |
Since the question doesn't make any sense, no. I am concerned with a certain degree of plausibility, but my main concern is to make cool shit. I just want to have semi-reasonable prices for said cool shit. Nowhere did I say that "style is everything," or that "plausibility is a non-issue." The specific issue of whether drones were better at doing the same thing as PA was just not one that concerned me, it was outweighed in my mind by the benefits of having something cool in my games. |
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