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> The UCAS presidency, Not yet time, it's jusut a poll
Who would you vote for in 2064 ?
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Nath
post Feb 4 2004, 10:22 PM
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Two threads brought up the topic, and I was wondering... if asked, would people vote for somebody else than the now well-known Daviar and "that guys that always shows up with her... yeah, prez Haeffner, that's him..." ? I don't know if I should ask you to vote like you were concerned UCAS citizens or like the way you'd like SR world to go. To make the debate a bit more palpable, I wrote some piece, basing each stance upon information from SoNA and SSG (including the Libertarians' funding problem :D). IF people wish to elaborate, ask what those political speach might mean and provide answer, make this an interractive campaign.

Haeffner Administration - After seven years into office, they got a bilan. The major achievement of the Haeffner Administration is the SIN issue : in seven years, 350,000 SINless were regularized with full citizenships. You can consider this as a lot in comparison to past administrations, or insignificant in comparison to the million of SINless in the UCAS. To conduct that program, the Administration postponed a needed update of the UCAS federal databases. It is estimated as much as 5% of the new SIN ends up on the black market. In mid 2062, a scandal revealed the lack of security from federal contractors, a blackmailer getting confidential data from several of them. Considering the platform on which Dunkelzahn/Haeffner were elected, it can come as the most serious disapointment to see how racial crimes rates increased each year.
In the economical domain, Ares made it clear in countless occasion its support to the Administration. Other corps don't speak much, and the big announcements came from state-state trade agreements etween UCAS and Great Britain, Quebec and Tir Tairngire. Still on the international front, the armed forces saw little use. Haeffner proposed to the Japanese authorities to send help and support after the 2060 major earthquake, but stay prudent about the Salish-Shidhe/Tsimshian and California ("we're prepared to offer" were his words). VP Daviar also personnaly took part in the peaceful settlement of Denver issue with the Great Dragon Ghostwalker.
Their work prove the UCAS must change its political rythm, they say. An administration needs time to do and finish some good job to submit to the Congress.
In fewer words, slow down, time's passing so fast...

Republicans - "Intentions might be good, things must be prioritized. Most here will count their voters. Not only will we care about to do the greater good for all of the UCAS, but also for fellow Americans in time of great need. We have an history, and when I see California struggling between warmongers, I think what made our ancestor go there at first should make us return there: spread democracy and prosperity over a chosen land. Racism, fear and short-sighted statures, these are not our values. We must act, and gives ourselves the mean do so in the future."
In fewer words, California here we are ! Tsimshian and Aztlan won't wait much more !

Technocrats - "UCAS mustn't fall asleep. Technology mustn't stay only in the hands of a fews. There are technologies within reach that can ease labor and reduce its cost, help our security, enhance our health and gives new hindsight about the world. Every penny spent in research is two pennies saved elsewhere within a decade, an invaluable advance for the coming generation. We don't need always temporary repairs, we need changes."
In fewer word, time to sign big contracts with megacorps.

Archconservatives - "Politics is not about good-looking, it is about facing up problems. When the Haeffner Administration has no solution, and they do often, they give everybody a kiss and go away. Dealers and robbers are granted SIN to leave on vacation in the Carribean or buy luxury cars. And when they hit a pedestrian, we're told we should raise taxes to improve the grid guide system ?! The administration is failing on such simple, direct issues, I'm even more frightened when I see how they set up a health disaster to happen within ten or fifteen years by not taking any precaution to handle the SURGE genetic danger they still fail to explain. Mr Haeffner and Ms Daviar aren't only not facing our problems, they're hiding them to us. Retrieve your vote, retrieve your right to know what, and who you're voting for."
In fewer word, BURN BURN BURN !

Democrats - "It's time to renew the political arena. Don't listen to those who brandish the Awakening or the Halley Comet as turning point of History. We mustn't wait for the rest of the World to significate us things are changing. We must decide by ourselves to change and go the way we want. We want stability not as ill immobilism. We want stability as the possibility to resist to outside changes we do not desire and stay on our own path."
In fewer word,... eh... democrats ?

New Century Party - "The world has changed, and the UCAS have been suffering it so far. Let's make magic the center of our country. It will make us more powerful, healthy and secure than weapons, chemistry or databases ever did. The th___ to... hey... O_e two... guys, that mic_op__ne st_p_ed _ork_ng. Fix m_ th_t s__t !"
In fewer word, get rid of professional politicians, take some amateur academics instead

Libertarians - Gives the UCAS back the liberty to act, to build, to talk, to develop, to chose. And gives us some money to pay longer advertising !
In fewer word, beat the odds, ruin bookmakers. but don't hope to get a real government.

Ok, near the end I ran out of inspiration... But I really wanted to make that poll.
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JongWK
post Feb 4 2004, 11:32 PM
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I think the Dems were a bit bland to my taste, at least as it is written (the best ever were the ones in a SNL gag with Al Gore as Trent Lott). :grinbig:

I voted the incumbent, but I like th Republicans and the Technocrats. The former can give us a more... trigger-happy continent, while the later are the perfect corrupt government we expect in cyberpunk.

This post has been edited by JongWK: Feb 4 2004, 11:38 PM
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Kanada Ten
post Feb 5 2004, 01:19 AM
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Vote Illuminaties of the New Dawn, er I mean New Century!
Magic is the means to heal! To lead! To rule!
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Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*
post Feb 5 2004, 01:50 AM
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I can't imagine supporting this Administration, because it hasn't lived up to its commitment. While the blame can easily be laid at the feet of Congress, the Administration has to answer for some fundamental problems--chiefly among them that the idea of "probationary" citizens--the SINless--exists. A country which Dunkelzahn himself lauded the United States and that, "The concept that all beings are equal in the eyes of the Universe, regardless of their appearance or origins, without concern for their beliefs, goes against millennia of human history in which slavery, torture and murder were the order of the day for those where did not conform to the will of the State. More amazing still is that a nation founded upon such a radical principle was able to survive and prosper." The UCAS pays lip-service to the ideas of equal protection, but the words above the Supreme Court, "Equal Justice Under the Law," are so hollow there's a ringing in the ears of people with any sense of decency at the fact that the SINless simply do not share "fundamental rights'" rights which in the country all people in this country are entitled to, chief among them the "life" part of the clause which guarantees due process for rights from life, liberty and property. If the Haeffner Administration was really so committed to Dunkelzahn's memory and wishes as it claimed, it would not amend the SIN amendment--the UCAS 14th, which is an insult in consideration of the US 14th--to make it easier to get a SIN. It would have called for the repeal of the SIN Amendment.

Reading SoNA, it is interesting to note how much fear pervaded the framers in the '30s. The fact that the country which was created from the remains of the US and Canada has made it easier to go after "security threats" and has allowed even more powers to suspend rights through the nebulous declaration of a "national emergency." Even the U.S. Constitution only allows for the suspension of habeas corpus, and then only in times of war or insurrection. However, the security state which has ruled the UCAS for 30 years rests on events which happened two generations ago. However, there are now generations which have lived under this government, or under the conditions which led to the creation of the UCAS in the first place.

After 30 years, the UCAS needs to reconsider a lot of what it currently allows. Also chief amongst them is that "escaped" corporate employees are treated like fugitive slaves. SoNA mentioned that the country is finally moving into the 21st century, which is baffling given that shit like that is from the 18th. "Contract" Law--shit. There are countries that won't send back American murderer because we have the death penalty, but hey... They're corporate citizens. Fuck 'em. They probably don't send people back to the UCAS. But principle be damned, this country has also taken great pride (Well, save for assholes like Michael Savage) it is a refuge from oppression, unless the oppressive regime can deliver a swift kick in the balls to the UCAS economy.

The other problem is that there are serious conflicts with the two candidates. Haeffner was picked (er... "suggested") by Damien Knight to be Dunk's VP, and Daviar is on the board of Ares (So much for conflicts-of-interest laws) and not even hiding the fact that she's a shill for the corporation, but hey-- it's a Golden Dawn of prosperity and security, right?

Finally, it dawned on me when I was reading SoNA why I feel uneasy about the UCAS. It's just a dark, dirty, fearful, awful place to live. It's toxic. Really toxic, encouraging polluting industries and having the majority of its waters contaminated beyond potability, and it has managed to become entirely dependant on foreign resources. The whole country now looks like the Rust Belt--which is appalling to me personally in a way I can't begin to express. It's full of racists and paranoids, it's obsessed with its security instead of making life better for the people. It's just about as fucked as this country could become. And while Daviar and Haeffner are sucking the teet of Ares and Novatech and the rest of Big Ten, a country which has built a great deal of prosperity while over 50% of economic development and employment is from small business--business Dunkelzahn supported (in theory) but which AFAIK hasn't received any more support outside of the Will.

But none of the parties are really interested in doing anything like this. They are interested in maintaining power and appeasing all of their benefactors--most of which benefit from having a country less free. Even the Libertarians are compromised, and I suggest that from personal experience. I like them a lot most of the time, but sometimes they are just not rational. Their ideology generally is, but some of the people aren't.

So, basically, I wouldn't vote for any candidate.

On the good side, however, I think I finally narrowed down a legacy of the will that I've been pondering on for 7 1/2 (!) years to three thanks to this. I just wish I knew what happened to my copy of POAD: DS.
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Kanada Ten
post Feb 5 2004, 01:57 AM
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So.. you'll be voting with a bullet?
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Solkari
post Feb 5 2004, 02:10 AM
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Hmmm, Crimsondude made alot of good points. I think I'll abstain from voting, and move to Denver. I may not trust Ghostwalker as far as I can throw him, but at least he doesn't pretend I can.
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Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*
post Feb 5 2004, 02:15 AM
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QUOTE
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.


From the Declaration of Independence, JIC.
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Kanada Ten
post Feb 5 2004, 04:20 AM
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Slogans of '64

SIN for you friends! Vote and we'll win! (Haeffner)

Jack In and Vote! (Technocrat)

Taking a stand, across the land! (Republicans)

Retrieve your vote! (Archconservatives)

Vote for the People's Will. (Democrats)

For the next century, vote New Century! (New Century Party)

Vote now and never again! (Libertarians)
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FlakJacket
post Feb 5 2004, 04:40 AM
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Go Daviar! 'Cause we all know who's wearing the trousers in that relationship. :)
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Kanada Ten
post Feb 5 2004, 04:59 AM
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Rejected Slogans

We haven't won yet, and look how bad things are! (Arch)

See! We didn't fix the vote last time! (Techno)

No mundane left behind! (New Century)

Haeffner, he's just good enough. (Haeffner)

We won't try to rule.
We'll end public school.
Cut back on taxes,
as government axes. (Libertarians)

Tried and True, our methods Red, White, and Mapel too (Republicans)

Tried and True, errr (Democrats)

Media Taglines

Thrash the Vote (MTV781)
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Kagetenshi
post Feb 5 2004, 04:59 AM
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This is a tough one... the Haeffner administration is a bit questionable, what with their whole not-following-through-on-promises bit... plus the sketchy nature of the Big D's sudden death after the inauguration... sounds like someone might've been intending for this to be the ticket all along. The Technocrats had my vote back in '56, but then they pulled a Nixon, and I'm not sure enough time has gone by to let me trust them again. The Republicans are too focused on California; honestly, uniting with Trans-Polar Aleut would probably be easier than diving into the nest of semiconnected regions that is the current CFS. Archconservatives... some of us have friends who are metas, thank you very much. It's people like them that make me wish I didn't value free speech so much. Democrats: WTF? Heh. I might vote for them just because they have the least cohesive message and probably stand to get the least done. Not sure I'm ready to go with the all-out amateurish chaos that is the New Century Party, though. Libertarians have a good idea that won't stand up in the real world.

Hm. I may have to sleep on this one. Does anyone have a stance on environmental issues? Currently leaning towards Dems or maybe Technocrats or Haeffner, though the last two bring up doubts for me.

~J
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Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*
post Feb 5 2004, 06:10 AM
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I almost voted for Brackhaven in the election, but I weighed it against the lieklihood of someone voting for him to win the prize. Ditto with Booth. Someone had already won voting for Vogel, and I knew there were people who'd actually vote for Dunk, so I voted on my other principles.

However, I'd have loved to see a Brackhaven presidency deal with all of the shit that has befallen the UCAS since the election.
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Accel
post Feb 5 2004, 06:01 PM
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I don't know, if the Technocrats earned a comparison with Tricky Dick. After all, they were leading the polls not just by margin, after Steele shook new citizen Dunkelzahn's talon. There was no real need for them to resort to banana republic - style tampering.

I usually do not buy into conspiracy theories, but that doesn't smell like a frame-up. That reeks.

Apart from that, I have no real love for them.

But my regards to Nath for a fine job of topically summarizing the choices available.

To Crimsondude as well for his critical remarks. Though I do not agree to boycott an election, especially if one considers force as a viable option of change. Because one does not like the ones eligible, taking arms against the system of election itself is no just cause. One would or could not force the ones one likes to assume office, as that would be dictatorship by other means. Either one votes for the ones closest to doing the job well, or one stands up to do it on one's own by getting voted.

Where I entirely and unconditionally agree, is the state of the system. It looks as if the founders of the american and canadian union took the worst from both worlds and made it law. There are countries in the world whose gouvernments do not have the constitutional authority of suspending its citizens's legal rights. Who invented the system of SIN in the first place (and why,) while simultaneously abolishing the law of naturalization by being born in the US?

About the incompatibility of holding active corporate office and gouvernment office at the same time, well I don't know if that was not just editorial negligence. Don't know about Ager, Brackhaven's running mate in '57, or Ekimatsu, running mate of Booth's, who hold corporate offices prior to the election. Were they be forced to give up office once sworn in? Hypothetical question, unfortunately.

I believe FASA/Fanpro simply overstated Daviar's involvement in Ares. I remember that US Gouvernment officials are to place their portfolios in trust upon entering office. Applied to 2057, Daviar had been to give up management rights to Gavilan Ventures, likewise forfeiting the right to exercise the accompanying rights to seat and vote on the board of Ares, if Gavilan Ventures is a joint-stock company or a corporation of limited liability. If its owner is personally liable, however, then she could have kept management of Gavilan. She would have been to render control of the company's Ares stocks, though. Which makes me see the pointlessness of the distinction...:upsidedown:

But I stick to believing in heedlessness on behalf of regulations of incompatibility, rather than believe that a legal blur between corporate special interests and trust for the wellbeing of the general public was intended.

For the record, I voted then for Vogel and now for dems in general, for they seem the sincerest of the bunch (and closest to a vision like my own.)

Believing in the goodness of the world and playing Shadowrun at the same time. Fascinating contrast, isn't it?
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Nath
post Feb 5 2004, 06:29 PM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Does anyone have a stance on environmental issues? Currently leaning towards Dems or maybe Technocrats or Haeffner, though the last two bring up doubts for me.

According to SoNA, the democrats absorbed the Green Party among other. During the 2057 election Arthur Vogel was their candidate. So you can probably give your vote to the Dems. The piece I wrote for them lacks of inspiration, but on the other hand when reading SoNA and SSG I saw them as the ultra-ethic with no guts kind...
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Kagetenshi
post Feb 5 2004, 07:57 PM
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QUOTE (Accel)
I don't know, if the Technocrats earned a comparison with Tricky Dick. After all, they were leading the polls not just by margin, after Steele shook new citizen Dunkelzahn's talon. There was no real need for them to resort to banana republic - style tampering.

Nixon was, if I remember correctly, far and away the favoured candidate. He had little chance of losing that election.
And Nath: thanks for the info. Dems it is then. Mmm, ineffectualness...

~J
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Accel
post Feb 5 2004, 08:51 PM
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QUOTE ("Kagetenshi")
Nixon was, if I remember correctly, far and away the favoured candidate. He had little chance of losing that election.


Don't know. What I know is, that Watergate was about the Democratic strategy at large, so that Nixon could gain tactical and strategic advantage by listening and spying on the Dems meeting and working in the Watergate.

Whereas in 2056 the election results were tampered with. If the Technocrats were indeed in pole position (and polls and results can't be too different with a known constituency) why would they have to temper with the results?

Also, since Watergate and "technical problems with the voting machines" since 2000, people know of the risks involved. Security should be accordingly dense. Therefore, the person or persons involved in tampering with the electoral system should either be good enough not to be caught by security/two daring snoops or the datatrail involved would expose everyone involved in it.

Or perhaps the wish is father to my thought again.
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Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*
post Feb 6 2004, 12:08 AM
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WTF

You seem to be inferring facts that just aren't there, beginning with the idea that I would even are suggest not voting. I smack people who do that IRL. And that was neither my intention, nor anything near what I wrote.

I wrote a criticism about the parties--and specifically the Administration in power--and their indifference to the fact that the UCAS is essentially an illegitimate heir to the US and Canada. I'm sorry I didn't spell it out that there needs to be a new direction: A third way (or in this case a seventh or eighth) which would do what this government has, frankly, failed to do. And the best way to do that would be for the old US Constitution to be reintroduced, and to forgo this security- and fear-obsessed document which goes against everything that the US stands for.

And yes, that first means getting people elected who are willing to do that. I don't see any party willing or capable of doing that. However, perhaps one of the members of the Scott Commission or some other person, politician or other, might finally stand up and say, "Enough!"

The Presidency isn't the way to do that. While the Executive has a tremendous amount of power in many regards (too much, IMO) the fact is that a President--as great as their intentions may be--is not going to get Congress and the states to agree to a amendment process, let alone a Constitutional convention, without their own supporters in the Congress and states. This is not something that can be imposed from on high down and still allow for the desired results. The UCAS Constitution was pushed through by the President and PM, and look what it did.

Vote for any of these groups? No way.
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Kanada Ten
post Feb 6 2004, 05:42 AM
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It's just like real elections:
    20% of possible voters voting.
    20% of possible voters bitching.
    60% of possible voters not.
:S I wonder how things got so bad in 2064 :P
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BumsofTacoma
post Feb 6 2004, 09:16 AM
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vote Ralph Nader the 3rd
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Panzergeist
post Feb 6 2004, 08:47 PM
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My vote goes to the republicans. Time to reunify the former USA and Canada. Annex California, and beat down those despoilers in Aztlan and Tsimshian. And those Japs better remember what happened last time they fucked with us.
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