Religious Characters, Anyone ever run one? Options

[DamienKnight]

Priests can be great runners, so long as they have a skewed view on the church's teachings.

A first time player in my game played an adept priest. He is a big anime fan and loosely based it on the concept of some priest vampire killer guy. His character was from a super secret group dedicated to killing infected, unofficially supported by certain cardinals in the Vattican. He played the char as a real Bigot, who relentlessly pursued anyone he even mildy suspected of being infected.

The group included a vampire and a Loup Garou. The wolfboy concealed his body, just letting the claws out in combat. Tried to convince the Priest that he was just a phys ad whose killing hands manifested in a strange way. The priest was distracted by all the Ghouls I threw at them on the first run, but started stalking the Loup Garou after the run. The vampire character started spying on them both and selling information on each one to the other. The vampire kept the Priest so keyed up about the Loup Garou, he never noticed the vampire for what he was.

Eventually the Priest tried to kill the Loup Garou right after a run. The Loup Garou escaped, then went to the vampire for help. The vampire character hired an assassin, using the Loup Garou's resources, and paid him to sneak into the church where the Priest stayed and infect him with the Ghoul strain of the virus.

The priest never realized what had happened. He became sick, and eventually changed... forced to flee the church before he ate the parishioners. Disconnected from his organization (he wasnt about to go tell a bunch of zealot infected-slayers that he had become a ghoul) he decided to hide out in the barrens, starving himself. He had a crisis of faith, but decided to just let himself die rather than take the chance of pissing off God. At the height of hunger and self pity, some jerk tried to mug him. He lost himself to his ghoul hunger and killed and ate the guy. After feeling remorse for what he did, he had an epiphany. He was turned to a ghoul by God himself, so that he could start a ministry among the infected!

The player retired the character, who built a church in the Pullyaup barrens dedicated to teaching infected how they might achieve salvation by only eating the dead or by killing the most unsavable wretches among the lost.

[Tyro]

Priests can be great runners, so long as they have a skewed view on the church's teachings.

A first time player in my game played an adept priest. He is a big anime fan and loosely based it on the concept of some priest vampire killer guy. His character was from a super secret group dedicated to killing infected, unofficially supported by certain cardinals in the Vattican. He played the char as a real Bigot, who relentlessly pursued anyone he even mildy suspected of being infected.

The group included a vampire and a Loup Garou. The wolfboy concealed his body, just letting the claws out in combat. Tried to convince the Priest that he was just a phys ad whose killing hands manifested in a strange way. The priest was distracted by all the Ghouls I threw at them on the first run, but started stalking the Loup Garou after the run. The vampire character started spying on them both and selling information on each one to the other. The vampire kept the Priest so keyed up about the Loup Garou, he never noticed the vampire for what he was.

Eventually the Priest tried to kill the Loup Garou right after a run. The Loup Garou escaped, then went to the vampire for help. The vampire character hired an assassin, using the Loup Garou's resources, and paid him to sneak into the church where the Priest stayed and infect him with the Ghoul strain of the virus.

The priest never realized what had happened. He became sick, and eventually changed... forced to flee the church before he ate the parishioners. Disconnected from his organization (he wasnt about to go tell a bunch of zealot infected-slayers that he had become a ghoul) he decided to hide out in the barrens, starving himself. He had a crisis of faith, but decided to just let himself die rather than take the chance of pissing off God. At the height of hunger and self pity, some jerk tried to mug him. He lost himself to his ghoul hunger and killed and ate the guy. After feeling remorse for what he did, he had an epiphany. He was turned to a ghoul by God himself, so that he could start a ministry among the infected!

The player retired the character, who built a church in the Pullyaup barrens dedicated to teaching infected how they might achieve salvation by only eating the dead or by killing the most unsavable wretches among the lost.

Poor guy... Awesome stories rarely make for happy people.

I wouldn't say you have to have a skewed view of your church's teachings. Plenty of religions (Asatru comes to mind) work perfectly well with certain running styles, no modification required.

[HappyDaze]

I would...Just because she gets half the Honoured Dead for bed partners does not mean that she is not still a warrior goddess like
all the Aesir.

IIRC, Freya (and her brother, Frey/Freyr) is one of the Vanir, not the Aesir.

[Ascalaphus]

IIRC, Freya (and her brother, Frey/Freyr) is one of the Vanir, not the Aesir.

Yes, but they are on a sort of permanent loan to the Aesir.

[Eryk the Red]

I played a religious character for a bit. He was cool, but a little too messed up for my tastes.

He was an Orthodox Jew (not Chasidic) hitman. He had some magic, but I kind of regretted doing that. I made him a mage just because the group needed a mage. The important bit is that he was a hitman, a shooter, and he took his faith very seriously. That required that he make some difficult justifications in his head. It's not as though he killed for self-defense, or for a cause. He killed for money. So he had a rule for his jobs: he would never kill a Jew. He would not take jobs targetting Jews, and if he found out the target was Jewish, he'd walk away. He made this clear to employers, so there would be no surprises. In his mind, non-Jews, while being no less human, were not afforded the same moral protections as Jews.

He was part of a Jewish crime ring prior to the campaign, which got taken out, resulting in his wife's arrest. His motivation for running is to raise the money to find her and organize a run to free her. He lives in a tiny filthy apartment, and has a growing addiction to betameth.

He was a neat character to play, but if I continued to play him, he almost definitely would have died before he ever found his wife. He was desperate and took a lot of risks (which payed off in the handful of runs I played him in).

[tete]

loosely based it on the concept of some priest vampire killer guy.

I can't stop thinking "I kick arse for the Lord"... I know it was Zombies but its still and priest undead killer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Celt IMC]

I can't stop thinking "I kick arse for the Lord"... I know it was Zombies but its still and priest undead killer (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Seth: So what are you, Jacob? A faithless preacher? Or a mean motherfraggin' servant of God?
Jacob: I'm a mean, mhm mhm servant of God.

[Snow_Fox]

The problem with the question is ow observant do you mean? For example Reform, Conservative and Hassidik (sp?) Jews have different definitions of "kosher" and some very religous jewish people have no problem with pork, cheeseburgers and lobster. Most of the billion or so Muslims in the world do not believe in killing themselves for Allah but there are quite a few head cases who feel they are devout that way. Many Arabs, who are Muslims, want nothing (pleasant) to do with Jews, but that is more geo-political than anything in holy scriptures.

So how observant do you mean? In theory a wiccan or any monotheist would ever take a life (thou shall not kill, an it harm none etc) A Jew who won't run after sundown on friday until dusk Saturday? A Christian who won't run on Sunday? A Muslim who will stop to prey 5 times a day?

The question should be answered.

[Neraph]

A Muslim who will stop to prey 5 times a day?

Hehe, a hunting Muslim? (pray, not prey)

[Tyro]

The problem with the question is ow observant do you mean? For example Reform, Conservative and Hassidik (sp?) Jews have different definitions of "kosher" and some very religous jewish people have no problem with pork, cheeseburgers and lobster. Most of the billion or so Muslims in the world do not believe in killing themselves for Allah but there are quite a few head cases who feel they are devout that way. Many Arabs, who are Muslims, want nothing (pleasant) to do with Jews, but that is more geo-political than anything in holy scriptures.

So how observant do you mean? In theory a wiccan or any monotheist would ever take a life (thou shall not kill, an it harm none etc) A Jew who won't run after sundown on friday until dusk Saturday? A Christian who won't run on Sunday? A Muslim who will stop to prey 5 times a day?

The question should be answered.

As was mentioned earlier by another poster, it's thou shalt not murder.

[pbangarth]

As was mentioned earlier by another poster, it's thou shalt not murder.

I don't know, there are a lot of interpretations that say 'kill'. See for example, THIS. What the original Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek may be is irrelevant to the beliefs and actions of one who works according to the interpretation of his particular sect.

[Tyro]

I don't know, there are a lot of interpretations that say 'kill'. See for example, THIS. What the original Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek may be is irrelevant to the beliefs and actions of one who works according to the interpretation of his particular sect.

The original Bible was supposedly written with divine inspiration/written by God through the bodies of men/etc. Most modern translations use murder, not kill, as they are translated from the oldest verifiable copies.

[pbangarth]

The original Bible was supposedly written with divine inspiration/written by God through the bodies of men/etc. Most modern translations use murder, not kill, as they are translated from the oldest verifiable copies.

The King James version is still a powerful and widely used version. Doesn't matter what more modern versions say if this is the one your sect uses.

[Karoline]

I love the word sect![/random]

I've always heard it as kill. Many people have always heard it as kill. Regardless of what something actually is people will act on what they believe. If people believe that there is a God, then they will act as though there is a God, regardless of if there actually is a God. If people believe the bible says "Thou Shall not streak" then they will quote it and spread that belief like a plague (Plenty of internet rumors happen like this. Someone says that something is true and everyone believes them, and if they don't then 5 of their friends will and will convince them of it). If people believe the bible says "Thou Shall not Kill." then that is what they will act under, the idea that that is what the bible says, regardless of what the original bible might say, or what some new bible might say.

Incidentally, what is the difference between Kill and Murder for the sake of a character like this beyond that Kill extends to non-humans and Murder does not?

[Glyph]

Generally, murder means deliberately killing someone in cold blood (i.e. wetwork), while killing includes things like fighting in a war, self-defense, etc.

Basically, the difference between the 5 point pacifist negative quality and the 10 point pacifist negative quality.

[Tyro]

Generally, murder means deliberately killing someone in cold blood (i.e. wetwork), while killing includes things like fighting in a war, self-defense, etc.

Basically, the difference between the 5 point pacifist negative quality and the 10 point pacifist negative quality.

Couldn't have put it better myself ^_^

[Karoline]

I have a feeling that there would be alot of moral argument over a runner who is breaking into a facility and being shot at by the guards could really call him killing the guards 'self-defense' and not murder. I mean in the real world if you rob a bank and then kill a cop because he was shooting at you, it is 1st degree murder, not self-defense.

Regardless, yeah, I see the difference between kill and murder here. I wasn't thinking of it in legal terms.

[Tyro]

I see murder (from a moral or ethical perspective) as killing without justification. (Remember, morals are personal values, while ethics are societal.) If killing for personal profit is moral for you, I would not consider your doing so murder from your moral perspective. You'd still have to deal with other people's morals and local culture (ethics), however.

[Karoline]

I see murder (from a moral or ethical perspective) as killing with justification. (Remember, morals are personal values, while ethics are societal.)

You mean killing without justification?

[Tyro]

You mean killing without justification?

Yes, that's what I meant. I just got up; thank you for the heads up. Edited.

[Snow_Fox]

All of which bounces around my question. You are saying that any Christian who shoots someone doesn't count as Christian. there are a whole bunch of people in the US military right now who'd probably not agree with you. Also to go back to my post, then the extreme case of Muslim's -the wack jobs not normal folks_ would actually be blessed to kill infidels.

[LivingOxymoron]

I'm with you on this one.

Obviously, if a person's faith (or their connection to the secular community and traditions of their faith) are strong enough, consciously or unconsciously, they will more than likely try to compensate the rigors of their life with other forms of observance.

Take Christianity as an example (since you pointed it out). Running is a dangerous profession... runners kill people. Christians, Jews, and Muslims (who all follow the 10 commandments) aren't "out of the club" if they kill someone... quite to the contrary, these and other religions all provide for ways to atone for one's actions. Sometimes it could be taking actions to mitigate the harm one causes. Sometimes, one's beliefs allow one to concoct elaborate justifications for ones actions. After all, religions are not simply the words contained in a single book... they are the sum total of the beliefs, interpretations, and cultures that evolve over the years.

From my own personal experience, when I was in the military, if I missed a particular holiday observance I wasn't automatically not a Jew anymore. When I missed the Yom Kippur fast one year due to operational responsibility, I simply fasted the next time I got the chance. Same thing with a friend of mine who was Muslim. He was on an exercise during part of Ramadan. He simply made up the days he missed after the exercise was over.

All of which bounces around my question. You are saying that any Christian who shoots someone doesn't count as Christian. there are a whole bunch of people in the US military right now who'd probably not agree with you. Also to go back to my post, then the extreme case of Muslim's -the wack jobs not normal folks_ would actually be blessed to kill infidels.

[MatrixJargon]

We've had varying levels of religion in our campaigns throughout the ages. I had made one character (whom I ended up never using) that went by the street name "Paladin" and was heavily religious. If you want to play a fully religious character, be prepared to play either a bit of a dark hypocrite, or like the priest from Firefly/Serenity. I also, at one time, played a character who refused to kill anybody. He was the team's moral voice, and it caused a lot of interesting in-confrontations. "If you do any of that goody two shoes don't let me shoot anybody shit this run I'm going to kill you" was a fairly frequent example. I suppose, in the end, the team never did kill him simply because they needed him. He was like...a decker/medic/face. I played virtually every support role for a team of covert ops fighters. It worked out better than you'd think.

Finally, we had one campaign in which our Johnson turned out to be an Fallen-Angel. It was a one time GM doing sort of a guest session for us, and you'd be surprised how well he managed to fit it in to Shadowrun. Very interesting leg work, even involved me calling the Catholic church. One of the best sessions I've ever played, even if it was a bit fast and loose with some of the rules and lore of Shadowrun. Plus, I now get to say "I did a run once where a fallen angel had us sneak a shipment of drugs in to Miami"

EDIT: I'm actually religious in real life, even if most of my SR characters aren't.

[Tyro]

"It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Neraph]

Generally, murder means deliberately killing someone in cold blood (i.e. wetwork), while killing includes things like fighting in a war, self-defense, etc.

Basically, the difference between the 5 point pacifist negative quality and the 10 point pacifist negative quality.

Yes, but what did the word 'kill' mean in 1611 when the King James was translated? That's the real question. For example, the King James uses the phrase "gay attire," which would not be used (almost at all) in common conversations today, and if it is used, has a different meaning.

Or like when in Genesis 2 when God tells Adam and Eve to "replenish the world." In 1611 the word Replenish had one meaning - to fill. About a hundred years later, they added the secondary definition "to fill again," then another roughly hundred years later they switched the primary definition to "to fill again" with the secondary definition "to fill." Then about 70 years later, they simply dropped the old primary definition, which was "to fill," so it now simply means "to fill again." All this has lead to some interesting (and heretical) thoughts of pre-Adamite civilizations, including a first Judgement of Man and a rebellion of Satan before the world was made, which is all clearly against what the Scriptures say.