How to fill out this party, So 2 adepts, a street sam, and a mage walk into a bar... Options

[Patrick the Gnom...]

Alright, so about to start a game with a group that's pretty new to Shadowrun (and when I say pretty new, I mean 2 of the players have never played in a Shadowrun game before, 1 has a little Shadorunning experience, and the last has never played tabletop games before period). As the most experienced player, I'm probably going to have to fill in the weaknesses of the group. Currently, the group has 2 melee adepts, a bear shifter and a human, a melee cybered Fomori with Astral Hazing, and a human mage specializing in Manipulation, including mental. The GM hates the hacking rules, so we're almost certainly not going to encounter anything that would require hacking to get around. He's allowing pretty much anything (except the Radar Sensor due to some broken experiences from a previous game). So I was wodering what kind of character I should play. My current build is a cybered street sam with high automatics and enough Negotiation dice to get by, but I'm wondering if I shouldn't play something else. I'm worried that my team has too much melee but I don't know how to counteract this. Also, none of us have infiltration skills worth shit so we're a little shaky in that department as well. I was thinking of maybe switching to a Pixie infiltrator/face and then getting a few manipulation/illusion spells for battlefield control but I don't know. Any suggestions?

[Old_Man]

Too much melee? I don't understand (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)


Though a sneaker/face type character I think would be a nice addition to the team definitely!

[hahnsoo]

Play an utterly mundane guy with minimal cyberware and bioware, and fill in the tech (which is WAY more than hacking... you could have NO hacking in the group and still need tech skills) and face skills that no one else does. There's no point in being a Pixie face, because there's no way you'd be able to remain incognito or reach an empathic connection with 99.99999% of metahumans on the planet in a normal social situation. For god's sake, don't play a spellcaster or adept. With enough doubling up, the game becomes utterly boring for SOMEONE because their job is taken away, and that someone probably will be you if you go spellcaster.

Hell, a human Edge monkey who somehow does everything BETTER than the other specialists in the group would probably steal the show, even with utterly average stats and skills. The group sounds like all the other guys are the flashy ones, but you'd be the one who'd "get things done".

I can understand hating the hacking rules, but what the hell is up with the Radar Sensor? It's not like you can actually cast spells through it by RAW (since it's a technological overlay over your normal vision, per RAW), and even if you could, he could just disallow that use of it in that situation.

[Patrick the Gnom...]

Play an utterly mundane guy with minimal cyberware and bioware, and fill in the tech (which is WAY more than hacking... you could have NO hacking in the group and still need tech skills) and face skills that no one else does. There's no point in being a Pixie face, because there's no way you'd be able to remain incognito or reach an empathic connection with 99.99999% of metahumans on the planet in a normal social situation. For god's sake, don't play a spellcaster or adept. With enough doubling up, the game becomes utterly boring for SOMEONE because their job is taken away, and that someone probably will be you if you go spellcaster.

Hell, a human Edge monkey who somehow does everything BETTER than the other specialists in the group would probably steal the show, even with utterly average stats and skills. The group sounds like all the other guys are the flashy ones, but you'd be the one who'd "get things done".

I can understand hating the hacking rules, but what the hell is up with the Radar Sensor? It's not like you can actually cast spells through it by RAW (since it's a technological overlay over your normal vision, per RAW), and even if you could, he could just disallow that use of it in that situation.

My current character is already a human edge monkey with face skills, but I'd like to know what you suggest as tech skills besides hacking? Also, the Radar Sensor is banned because I used it in a previous game to ruin like 3 ambushes that my GM planned (different GM, although my current GM was playing in the game) as well as scout out the inside of absolutely every building we entered including a AAA arcology. And that was before I discovered the sniping through walls brokeness that Radar Sensor makes possible. Overall though, it's mostly just a quirk of my GM, one of many (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .

[hahnsoo]

My current character is already a human edge monkey with face skills, but I'd like to know what you suggest as tech skills besides hacking? Also, the Radar Sensor is banned because I used it in a previous game to ruin like 3 ambushes that my GM planned (different GM, although my current GM was playing in the game) as well as scout out the inside of absolutely every building we entered including a AAA arcology. And that was before I discovered the sniping through walls brokeness that Radar Sensor makes possible. Overall though, it's mostly just a quirk of my GM, one of many (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .

A quirk that your GM should get rid of (only my opinion, nothing more). It's easy to fool a Radar Sensor, and if the PCs use it, that gives the NPCs free reign to use it, too (it's only fair, after all). It will essentially mean that the PCs will never be able to make an ambush, since the "common" use of Radar without countermeasures gives the GM a deadly edge for the NPCs. If you introduce Radar countermeasures, then it nerfs the PC Radars as well. The maximum Barrier Rating you can penetrate with it is 20 anyway, and it only detects individuals (and not the hostility of said individuals... there are no "enemy dots" and "friend dots", unless you have a Tacnet). How are you going to detect an enemy ambush in an already populated area? There's plenty of room for making mistakes in judgment when you see a radar image rather than physically viewing the target. A good GM would exploit this rather than banning it... the players really only have themselves to blame, too.

Hardware is useful in doing just about anything criminal in the Sixth World, from bypassing security measures (how are you going to get past the humble maglock without massive explosives?) to building one-shot items for specific runs (a lot of critters/paracritters hate high-decibel high-frequency audio devices, basically a tech-based dog whistle). Electronic Warfare is great for intercepting enemy communications and setting up your own.

[etherial]

Alright, so about to start a game with a group that's pretty new to Shadowrun (and when I say pretty new, I mean 2 of the players have never played in a Shadowrun game before, 1 has a little Shadorunning experience, and the last has never played tabletop games before period). As the most experienced player, I'm probably going to have to fill in the weaknesses of the group. Currently, the group has 2 melee adepts, a bear shifter and a human, a melee cybered Fomori with Astral Hazing, and a human mage specializing in Manipulation, including mental. The GM hates the hacking rules, so we're almost certainly not going to encounter anything that would require hacking to get around. He's allowing pretty much anything (except the Radar Sensor due to some broken experiences from a previous game). So I was wodering what kind of character I should play. My current build is a cybered street sam with high automatics and enough Negotiation dice to get by, but I'm wondering if I shouldn't play something else. I'm worried that my team has too much melee but I don't know how to counteract this. Also, none of us have infiltration skills worth shit so we're a little shaky in that department as well. I was thinking of maybe switching to a Pixie infiltrator/face and then getting a few manipulation/illusion spells for battlefield control but I don't know. Any suggestions?

Sounds like you could use a Rigger.

[Patrick the Gnom...]

Sounds like you could use a Rigger.

What for?

[Whipstitch]

Driving.

[Whipstitch]

Play an utterly mundane guy with minimal cyberware and bioware, and fill in the tech (which is WAY more than hacking... you could have NO hacking in the group and still need tech skills) and face skills that no one else does.

In my experience, minimal 'ware is rarely the way to go when it comes to a mundane character that's good at well, anything. Skills are extremely expensive, so attribute boosting 'ware and plenty of it is in order if you mean to hold up physically to the rigors of running as well as handle the technical/social skills your awakened buddies don't much care for. In no particular order, I would consider Cybereyes, Muscle Toner/Augmentation, Attention Coprocessors, Synthacardium, Cerebral Boosters, Mnemonic Enhancer, Wired Reflexes 2 and Tailored Pheromones 3 to all be worthy investments for a mundo that wants to cover his bases.

[Karoline]

Personally I'd be inclined to make a face/generalist in your situation. Likely a mundane elf (Is there such a thing as a non-elf face?) with high charisma and logic. All the social skills, a big hardware skill. Some lockpicking, armorer, the various mechanic skills, plenty of diverse knowledge skills and language skills. Then grab things like neocortical nanoware and menomic enhancer and tailored pheromones. Toss in some drones to scout/spy and maybe one or two combat drones and one weapon type skill. Be sure to also pick up all those oddball skills that people rarely use and see if you can't get some use out of them (Forgery, Artisan). It doesn't take long before you can do just about anything and be quite good at it and you will become the 'go to' member of the group for anything except combat.

[AngelisStorm]

Sounds like you could use a Rigger.

What for?

Rigging.

[Old_Man]

Im inclined to agree with the Rigger statement, or maybe just some drones to scout and be a face, especially if your GM is not big into hacking

[Exocet]

Sorry to hijack this thread, but I have a similar doubt, and anything about my problem could also be applied to the OP's.
So there's a SR3 group of decker, combat/stealth/spellcasting mixed adept (magician's path), defensive street sam, face with guns (think detective), and mage/face. Now the mage/face wants to try GMing so I'm gonna take his place as a player. I'm fine playing any kind of character (I'm a GM!) and we're using ALL supplements and almost all optional rules. What character would you reccomend, and why?

[Thanee]

So, err, your party can fight and... nothing else, right?

Someone got Hardware (or are you going to shoot... err, sorry... bash the doors open)?

Bye
Thanee

[Whipstitch]

Sorry to hijack this thread, but I have a similar doubt, and anything about my problem could also be applied to the OP's.
So there's a SR3 group of decker, combat/stealth/spellcasting mixed adept (magician's path), defensive street sam, face with guns (think detective), and mage/face. Now the mage/face wants to try GMing so I'm gonna take his place as a player. I'm fine playing any kind of character (I'm a GM!) and we're using ALL supplements and almost all optional rules. What character would you reccomend, and why?

Rigger again!

Honestly, it sounds like your group will be able to attempt almost any type of job once it has a wheelman added to the mix. My only worry might be that a relatively inexperienced GM may have some difficulty keeping up with a 6 man team that actually covers most of the key archetypes. If nothing else that's a lot of rules to keep up with.

[Johnny Hammersti...]

A rigger.

vehicles don't generally have to deal with recoil or getting hosed by small arms fire.

People , on the other hand . . .

[Johnny Hammersti...]

sorry, inadvertent double post.

[The Jake]

Yeah my PCs have the same issue. After nearly getting arrested for stealing cars, narrowly dodging Lone Star three sessions in a row, they're starting to realise they might need a rigger to help facilitate getaways and travel on a more permanent basis (thank god!). Sadly, they'll probably resort to NPCs to fill the gap but its better than nothing.

- J.

[Blade]

This is not D&D. An unbalanced team can still do work properly, though it might have an impact on the way things will be done.

[The Jake]

This is not D&D. An unbalanced team can still do work properly, though it might have an impact on the way things will be done.

Moreso than D&D, SR is a game that desparately requires a good spread of skills. You can have an unbalanced team but you better make sure you factor that into your planning. I.e. if you don't have a hacker, you better have a plan on how you intend on plugging that gap. Saying you don't need it is fundamentally retarded.

- J.

[MatrixJargon]

Moreso than D&D, SR is a game that desparately requires a good spread of skills. You can have an unbalanced team but you better make sure you factor that into your planning. I.e. if you don't have a hacker, you better have a plan on how you intend on plugging that gap. Saying you don't need it is fundamentally retarded.

- J.

This is only the case if you have the right GM. I've met many a GM who drop hacking or certain elements, or refuse to take advantage of holes in the groups team for some silly reason. Last I heard from my old group, they haven't had even one hacker since I left (I was always the decker/hacker/support) and never once has the GM used it against them.

[toturi]

In shadowrun, as long as the area is covered, it doesn't matter really who or how it is done. No hacker? Fine, an AI or a technomancer can cover the Matrix. Even a mook or a PC's pet mongrel can do so if you are smart about it. You can even get around not having counterspelling sometimes.

[MatrixJargon]

In shadowrun, as long as the area is covered, it doesn't matter really who or how it is done. No hacker? Fine, an AI or a technomancer can cover the Matrix. Even a mook or a PC's pet mongrel can do so if you are smart about it. You can even get around not having counterspelling sometimes.

One of my GMs actually let me pimp out a canine sidekick with cyberware, and raise his intelligence to near human levels despite not being awakened. Good times.

[Johnny Hammersti...]

As the GM, a lot of our battles and plot points revolve around what the players can't do as well as what they can.

for example, the current party doesn't really have a meatwall.

Can you guess how often the reoccuring villian with the monofilament whip shows up?

[Patrick the Gnom...]

All right, so what do you guys think of this guy?

David Moreau
Human
Stats (Average across cyber limbs/torso)
Bod: 6, Agi: 7, Rea: 7, Str: 6, Cha: 5, Int: 5, Log: 3, Will: 4, Edge: 6
Init: 12, IP: 3, Essence: .466
Remaining Nuyen: 7370

Skills (+Specialization)

Hardware (Maglocks): 1
Perception (Visual): 1
Pilot Groundcraft (Wheeled): 1
Automatics (Machine Pistols): 5
Dodge (Ranged): 1
Data Search (Corporate): 1
Negotiation (Bargaining): 5
Intimidation (Physical): 1
Shadowing (Urban): 1
Con (Fast Talk): 1
First Aid (Combat Wounds): 5
Automotive Mechanic (Wheeled): 1
Infiltration (Urban): 1

Knowledge Skills

English: N
Halloweeners: 3
Seattle Streetgangs: 3
Insurance Law: 3
Genetics: 3
Corporate Politics: 2
Heavy Automatic Weapons: 2
Machine Pistols: 2
Paranormal Critters: 2
Awakened Metahumans: 2
The Resonance: 2

Contacts

Hank Durston (Fixer): L2 C4
Dr. Boneknitter (Street Doc): L4 C4

Qualities

Biocompatibility (Cyberware)
Restricted Gear (Pain Editor)
Born Rich
Black Market Pipeline - Wares (Dr. Boneknitter)
Weak Immune System
In Debt (30000)

Bioware

Synaptic Booster 2
Platelet Factories
Reflex Recorder (Automatics)
Pain Editor

Cyberware

Datajack
Biomonitor
Cyberarms (Left and Right have same mods)
-Bod: 6, Agi: 9, Str: 6
-Cyberarm Slide
-Cyberarm Gyromount
Cyberlegs (Left and Right have same mods)
-Bod: 9, Agi: 9, Str: 9

Gear

Commlink (Upgraded Metalink, Res: 6, Sig: 2, Fire: 3, Sys: 6)
Empathy Software 6
Browse Software 6
Armored Jacket (8/6)
Chameleon Suit (6/4)
Modded Sunglasses
-Flare Comp.
-Vision Enhancement 3
-Smartlink
-Vision Magnification
AR Gloves
Medkit 6
120 EX-Explosive Rounds (In clips for the Ares Alpha aka "Big Bessy")
Autopicker 6
400 Stick n Shock Rounds (In clips for the Ares Crusaders aka "Tim & Tess")
Miniwelder
300 Tracer Rounds (In various clips for all weapons)
Fake Sin 4
x4 Fake Licenses 4

Weapons

Ares Alpha (Big Bessy)
-Powered Folding Stock
-Shock Pad
-Gas Vent 3
-Personalized Grip
-High Velocity Mod
-Barrel Mounted Sound Suppressor
x2 Ares Crusaders (Tim&Tess)
-Internal Sound Suppressor
-Firing Selection Change (Full Auto)
-Chameleon Coating
-External Smartgun System
-Carried in Cyberarm Slides

Vehicle

Rover 2068
-Gridlink Override

I kept my original cyberman base because I know this game is going to be heavily combat oriented and I'd like to be a part of it. I put in a few skills to cover the bases you guys mentioned and bought a car. None of this guy's dice pools fall below 9 except for the Logic base ones (and for when shooting while dual-wielding pistols, at which point he has to split his 17 dice pool and take a penalty for off-handing, which means he shoots with 7 dice in his left hand). Overall I think this guy ought to be able to cover any weaknesses of my team (hopefully).