Karma generation, So how much Karma does a normal dude get? Options

[Summerstorm]

Searched for it... but all Karma-questions are about awards given to players.

Well, the questions are: How much Karma (and BP) does a normal guy on the street have, and earn?

I have, for example, problems with "For-hire-enchanters", who anchor spells on the wealthy. They have a calm job and don't push themselves, but use up huge amounts of Karma for enchantments and fortified anchoring. How much would they charge for their services? How often could they do it?

I think a normal character would start out at about 300-350 BP when he is done with all education (School, Job, University), when he is about 16-25 years old. But after that? Maybe about 1 Karma every month, until he is so soulcrushed by his mundane life at age 35 that he gets maybe 1 every six months? What is with the highly magical lifestyle of a mage? Even though he is no runner it is very likely that he experiences new things all the time (I assume that with the low costs of initiation pretty much every mage will get up to 4 of those in his life, so pretty much every mage will do metaquests just for the hell of it?)

Oh and just another thing: I've got an VERY specialized mage in my group and she steals the show with her spirits. Any ideas how i could protect normal fighters from spirit powers? Some of them are just impossible to block and are an instant takedown, even in high background-count. No one protested yet, but i got the feeling the other players feel a bit annoyed at that. For example the "Engulf" of her air-spirits pretty much got EVERYONE down in the campaign, except TWO people. (One was a mage who dissolved that thing with a stunball for physical draindamage (and was killed afterwards). And one was a Vampire who is imune to that kind of damage... but he couldn't escape either, but was freed while the PC's weren't looking *g*)

Hm, i really have to say: having force+hits against willpower is just unbalanced anyway, inculding mental manipulations. The old Power vs. Attribute min. threshold half attribute was so much nice to people with high willpower. As it stands now it is highly unlikely to fail with any kind of spell or magical aptitude.

Ah well, too much offtopic. How are your thoughts to Karma-earning, how much will a magician charge for a anchored, reeinforced force-10 spell? 200.000? More, less?

[Draco18s]

Aim for 500-600. I think ~650 comes out to around the 400 BP level, though it really does depend on the build.

[Summerstorm]

That... wasn't really an answer to my question... ummm.

To clarify: I just want to know, how much Karma a character generates when not being a "chosen one" of the universe and having no adventures. A man who doesn't really push himself. Also: How much would this Karma be worth, when an enchanter anchors spells with it? A Service pretty much exclusivly for the rich sinners out there.

[Draco18s]

Depends on what he does and how well he does it.

If you take 600 karma and really, really narrow down your focus on what the character does (one skill, one attribute, etc.) their equivalent BP value will be far, far smaller than the generalist's (the guy who takes 30 2-3 point skills).

[Tsuul]

... until he is so soulcrushed by his mundane life at age 35 ...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Omenowl]

Honestly, they would probably earn almost no karma. Maybe 1-3 karma per year. The time you learn is when you push yourself. A person who runs 2 miles a day in 16 minutes wont lose anything, but never more will probably never get better at running.

If anything their karma would go more into contacts, business, etc rather than magic.

And I have seen plenty of soul crushed 20 year olds and very active alert 65 year olds. I depends on the person and how much they push themselves.

[Udoshi]

Honestly, I'd just assume that with sufficient time, effort, magical reagents and stuff, an NPC crafter can pay extra for an extra-magical lifestyle in order to Get Shit Done in the shadowrun world. Karma is a game mechanic, and, really, shouldn't be visible by the NPCs.

I'd apply the Cash-To-Karma rule in reverse(Slightly ripped out of RC's karmagen in 4th). 2500 nuyen for 1 karma, and double that for any finished product, or maybe even triple it if the customer wants something nonstandard(seriously? Have you looked at foci? They're -expensive-). And there you have a rough guideline for what it costs for the corp wagemages to get stuff done by binding spirits, putting up barriers, and turning out telesma.

[Tycho]

If you stick to the new rules (Attr*5 and Race Costs): 750Karma works just fine for a 400BP char.

cya
Tycho

[Smokeskin]

Funny how many people respond without reading the text (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Summerstorm]

Yeah... i am a bit puzzled myself on that... well i chose a bad title and description... sooo it's partly my own fault.

[Apathy]

I think karma generation by plain-jane NPCs would be highly variable and probably depend on how hard they pushed themselves. Also, there is no mechanism in SR for skill- and/or attribute degradation. I guess I'd treat it as getting those BP back and able to apply them to other things.

For example, I'm not as focused on sports as I was when I was a teenager and I've consequently gotten out of shape (lower strength), but the BPs I lost there were applied to contacts, intel, and various job-related skills. By the time the average guy's in his 30's he's a trained and experienced professional equivalent to a shadowrunner but with non-shadowrunning skills. I can't shoot as well as my character but he can't manage or code as well as me. And he's an antisocial prick while I've spent points having a family, etc. As I continue to get older I learn incrementally less and lose incrementally more, reflecting the gradual decline associated with aging. By the time I'm in my 70's I've forgotten most of what I originally learned and my general attributes are feable

You'd see lots of variation between individuals here - probably as much as +/- 75%. So an 18 year old runner would be pretty exceptional to have accumulated 400BP so quickly.

CODE

Age New BP Total BP
1 110 110
2 12 122
3 12 134
4 12 146
5 12 158
6 12 170
7 12 182
8 12 194
9 12 206
10 12 218
11 12 230
12 12 242
13 12 254
14 11 265
15 11 276
16 11 287
17 10 297
18 10 307
19 9 316
20 9 325
21 8 333
22 8 341
23 7 348
24 7 355
25 6 361
26 6 367
27 5 372
28 5 377
29 4 381
30 4 385
31 3 388
32 3 391
33 3 394
34 2 396
35 2 398
36 2 400
37 1 401
38 1 402
39 1 403
40 0 403
41 0 403
42 0 403
43 0 403
44 0 403
45 -1 402
46 -1 401
47 -1 400
48 -1 399
49 -1 398
50 -1 397
51 -2 395
52 -2 393
53 -2 391
54 -2 389
55 -3 386
56 -3 383
57 -3 380
58 -3 377
59 -4 373
60 -4 369
61 -4 365
62 -4 361
63 -5 356
64 -5 351
65 -5 346
66 -5 341
67 -6 335
68 -6 329
69 -6 323
70 -6 317
71 -7 310
72 -7 303
73 -7 296
74 -7 289
75 -7 282

[Machiavelli]

Cool....I HAVE read the whole topic and therefore i think i have earned a little applause.^^

So now lets check your questions:

Well, the questions are: How much Karma (and BP) does a normal guy on the street have, and earn?

Besides the way WE as players and GM´s work it out, the sanskrit word "karma" means nothing else than "movement". The universe doesn´t care what you are doing, as long as you do something. This implies, that even some bored 35-year office sitter (i checked "sesselfurzer" and this came out, great, isn´t it?) earns karma by going to work every day etc. Like one of my fore-posters said "he is simply spending it another way".

The Runners-lifestyle pushes you life a little bit on the fast-lane, which might be the reason why we usually evolve a little bit faster, but if you are e.g. a scientist on an expedition or you are really good and successfull in your job, there is no reason that he earns less than a runner. So i would think the street-grunts should (depending on their lifestyle - couchpotatoes earn less, of course) should have equal BP´s.

Oh and just another thing: I've got an VERY specialized mage in my group and she steals the show with her spirits. Any ideas how i could protect normal fighters from spirit powers? Some of them are just impossible to block and are an instant takedown, even in high background-count. No one protested yet, but i got the feeling the other players feel a bit annoyed at that. For example the "Engulf" of her air-spirits pretty much got EVERYONE down in the campaign, except TWO people. (One was a mage who dissolved that thing with a stunball for physical draindamage (and was killed afterwards). And one was a Vampire who is imune to that kind of damage... but he couldn't escape either, but was freed while the PC's weren't looking *g*)

We mentioned it in several other topics, if you don´t get your mage under control, you aren´t using the "f**ck-the-mage-rules" which implies basically every page of the core-book and street-magic sourcebooks. I play mages only since now nearly 16 years and I usually run if i get in a background count. You get more drain, the BC is subtracted directly from the force of your spirity, your own magic is lowered the same way etc. If mundane characters can´t deal with a mage and his spirits under BC, they are either created really bad OR the rules aren´t used correct. Engulf eg. is managed as a usual close-combat, so if a spirit in BC can take down your other chars. despite of this, they deserve being killed.

[Warlordtheft]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Don't worry, life gets better at 36.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Omenowl]

If you stick to the new rules (Attr*5 and Race Costs): 750Karma works just fine for a 400BP char.

cya
Tycho

Even with the new rules unless you min max you are still looking at the 650 range.

[Doc Byte]

Well, the questions are: How much Karma (and BP) does a normal guy on the street have, and earn?

I'd use the prime runner rules on page 277. Don't take prime runner too literally.

[Summerstorm]

Ah well... moving on to my second question then: What would you charge a rich guy, who is rightfully paranoid, to anchor some defensive high-powered spells into him? Say he wants a force 10 armor-spell acitvated on will (or coupled with a detection spell). To make it nearly impossible to dispell it should be reinforced with maybe 6 Karma extra (or hell, make it ten)

That thing would cost the caster 20 Karma. So a normal dude would earn that in maybe a year or more... and since he is a magician his karma is extra-expensive. So what would you say? 200.000 for that service? Availability about 20?

I just wonder why so few people have anchored spells. I have used two people already in my campaign (One rich businessman who had a detection spell helping him in his negotiations, pointing out people lying, and one magical killer having a spell helping him to heal after something went wrong *g*) And i plan to have some more in the near future. (Of course either magicians themselves or rich SINNERS... (nobody would tag his magical signature on some illegal scum murdering with your assistance)

[Machiavelli]

I would charge 500k. Risk of physical drain, allocation of metatechniques, 10 karma each worth 10-20k. Yeah, i would make it for 500. I have the karma free at the moment, do you want to make this deal?^^

[Saint Sithney]

NPCs get all kinds of Karma awards for good roleplaying.