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> High Velocity Weapons, Is it just me or do these things eat through barriers?
Patrick the Gnom...
post Jan 12 2010, 12:57 AM
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Alright, so I have 2 automatic pistols modified to shoot at high velocity. I've managed to bring the recoil down low enough and get my pool high enough so that when I fire tracer rounds out of these things I actually keep enough dice to not have to worry too much about glitching. So I come across a blast bunker. This blast bunker happens to stand between me and cake. I aim my twin barrels of thunder at the offending wall and unload 24 bullets into it from the 2 guns. Now the modified damage value of bullets against walls is 2x the number of bullets being fired, which for each gun is 24P+ the 11P I get for firing in full auto with high velocity weapons, for a whopping total of 35P damage. So, am I really eating my delicious (albeit slighty bullet-ridden) cake inside the blast bunker after having taken all of 2 seconds to demolish a meter wide section of wall with my 2 pistols of 70P damage to wall (which even though said blast bunker would roll 68 dice to resist damage would still be reduced to rubble in seconds)? Is there something wrong with my logic here, or am I really just that good? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)
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Summerstorm
post Jan 12 2010, 01:05 AM
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No, you are not THAT good. As i understand it if you attack this reeinforced wall of yours the damage is:

(Bullets*2)+Nethits. And you attack two times (left and right hand).

Is it possible to have highvelocity pistols? Thought only assault rifles and up can take that mod?

Well say you shoot 10 bullets and 4 net hits you do 24 damage, no extra for Full-Auto fire. That is already the bullet count. The wall resists with double armor, so it can just buy the successes... you won't get thorugh that wall so fast. MAYBE, if your GM is nice you could count the two weapons together... but then he would need to count ALL attacks on it together (friends firing with you and such)

Na i would say the easy way through is a 50kg-master Bomb with rating 15 plastic *g*
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booher
post Jan 12 2010, 01:10 AM
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Only assualt rifles and smg's can have high velocity.

QUOTE
Only submachine guns and assault
rifles can be constructed as high-velocity weapons.


Arsenal p. 26
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Starmage21
post Jan 12 2010, 01:14 AM
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QUOTE (booher @ Jan 11 2010, 09:10 PM) *
Only assualt rifles and smg's can have high velocity.



Arsenal p. 26


But the concept is still valid yes?
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Summerstorm
post Jan 12 2010, 01:18 AM
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Overall, yes...

EDIT: BUT... say the bunker has about 1 meter thick wallt... than it would have ~170 HP per squaremeter... that a lot of bullets you need, i hope you got something chain-fed *g*
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Patrick the Gnom...
post Jan 12 2010, 01:19 AM
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Alright, so I might not be able to have high velocity pistols, but its still possible to have full auto pistols, which still means 20 damage per bullet (DV value is 2 per bullet against barriers, the 1 to 1 ratio is for projectiles) and I could still argue that the full auto bonus applies (I don't see it written anywhere that it doesn't) but even if it doesn't 20 damage against a blast bunker rolling 34 dice to resist damage is going to average 9 unresisted damage, 18 per IP when firing 2 guns. So instead of eating my cake in 2 seconds, I'm forced to wait for 4.
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booher
post Jan 12 2010, 01:23 AM
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QUOTE (Starmage21 @ Jan 11 2010, 08:14 PM) *
But the concept is still valid yes?



I was just throwing it out there so that we all know. And knowledge is power. Also knowing is half of the battle. So power is half of the battle?
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Draco18s
post Jan 12 2010, 01:26 AM
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QUOTE (Patrick the Gnome @ Jan 11 2010, 08:19 PM) *
and I could still argue that the full auto bonus applies (I don't see it written anywhere that it doesn't)


Damage against objects is 2 per bullet fired. That's it.

The +9 damage you get for throwing 10 bullets at a metahuman target is the extra +1DV per +1 bullet. Walls just get +2 damage per bullet and lose the flat 5DV for firing a gun.
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Summerstorm
post Jan 12 2010, 01:26 AM
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Nope, The Bunker resists with DOUBLE its armor (64 dice) Only against elemental attacks and explosives it uses only its armor. Also the damageboxes are for about 10cm of thickness. Nobody builds a bunker with 10cm thick walls.

And yes, you do 20+net hits damage per gun... but the 64 dice of the bunker would take down around 20 dv... soooo yeah. Take the minigun which does 32+net hits... and may have enough bullets to do a a few dozens and up to a few hundred damageboxes needed.
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Patrick the Gnom...
post Jan 12 2010, 01:50 AM
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QUOTE (Summerstorm @ Jan 11 2010, 08:26 PM) *
Nope, The Bunker resists with DOUBLE its armor (64 dice) Only against elemental attacks and explosives it uses only its armor. Also the damageboxes are for about 10cm of thickness. Nobody builds a bunker with 10cm thick walls.

And yes, you do 20+net hits damage per gun... but the 64 dice of the bunker would take down around 20 dv... soooo yeah. Take the minigun which does 32+net hits... and may have enough bullets to do a a few dozens and up to a few hundred damageboxes needed.


That would be 34 dice per attack, bunker has 17 armor, x2 = 34. It would get 68 dice to resist the attack total, but I'd also be firing with 2 weapons so my DV would be 40. On average the bunker would get 23 hits or so for armor reducing my 40 damage to 17 unresisted damage per IP where I was firing both weapons, making bunker wall become gravel in 2 IP. And even if its only 10cm of wall, I'm still punching through 10cm of blast bunker every 2 seconds using pistols.
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JoelHalpern
post Jan 12 2010, 03:20 AM
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It seems to me the bunker would apply full damage reduction against each fun. As such, it would get 22 average hits, against your 24 damage. If you roll well, and it rolls badly, you will get a few points of damage. You are going to spend a LONG time shooting that bunker.

Yours,
Joel
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Draco18s
post Jan 12 2010, 03:23 AM
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QUOTE (JoelHalpern @ Jan 11 2010, 10:20 PM) *
It seems to me the bunker would apply full damage reduction against each gun.


Correct.
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Godwyn
post Jan 12 2010, 09:23 AM
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QUOTE (booher @ Jan 12 2010, 01:23 AM) *
I was just throwing it out there so that we all know. And knowledge is power. Also knowing is half of the battle. So power is half of the battle?


Power is all the battle. Half is from knowledge. The other half of the battle is being able to act upon that knowledge.
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hobgoblin
post Jan 12 2010, 09:32 AM
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QUOTE (Patrick the Gnome @ Jan 12 2010, 02:50 AM) *
That would be 34 dice per attack, bunker has 17 armor, x2 = 34. It would get 68 dice to resist the attack total, but I'd also be firing with 2 weapons so my DV would be 40. On average the bunker would get 23 hits or so for armor reducing my 40 damage to 17 unresisted damage per IP where I was firing both weapons, making bunker wall become gravel in 2 IP. And even if its only 10cm of wall, I'm still punching through 10cm of blast bunker every 2 seconds using pistols.

err, blast bunker (bottom of the table, hardened material) have 32+ armor, 17+ structure rating.
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Saint Sithney
post Jan 12 2010, 09:47 AM
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And god help you if that Bunker decides to throw Edge on top of the roll.

Bunkers have no natural maximum for their Edge. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)
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JoelHalpern
post Jan 12 2010, 01:36 PM
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QUOTE (Saint Sithney @ Jan 12 2010, 04:47 AM) *
And god help you if that Bunker decides to throw Edge on top of the roll.

Bunkers have no natural maximum for their Edge. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)


Are you sure you are not mixing up your bunkers with Gazebos?

-- Joel
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StealthSigma
post Jan 12 2010, 01:40 PM
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QUOTE (Patrick the Gnome @ Jan 11 2010, 08:57 PM) *
This blast bunker happens to stand between me and cake.


You completely forgot that the cake is a lie.

The cake is such a lie. People are willing to break into bunkers to get to it's non-existence.

Come to the Parish of Pie.
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Draco18s
post Jan 12 2010, 02:10 PM
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QUOTE (JoelHalpern @ Jan 12 2010, 08:36 AM) *
Are you sure you are not mixing up your bunkers with Gazebos?

-- Joel


Probably. But why would you want a cake in a gazebo?
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Prime Mover
post Jan 12 2010, 03:45 PM
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I agree with the no cake in gazebo's...actually I've had pizza in a gazebo and come to think of it nobody was firing off a high velocity weapon nearby. Just goes to show eating pizza out in the open is safer then hiding with cake in a bunker......
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StealthSigma
post Jan 12 2010, 03:53 PM
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QUOTE (Prime Mover @ Jan 12 2010, 11:45 AM) *
I agree with the no cake in gazebo's...actually I've had pizza in a gazebo and come to think of it nobody was firing off a high velocity weapon nearby. Just goes to show eating pizza out in the open is safer then hiding with cake in a bunker......


However, hiding in the bunker with a Weighted Companion Cube is perfectly normal.
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Draco18s
post Jan 12 2010, 04:58 PM
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QUOTE (StealthSigma @ Jan 12 2010, 10:53 AM) *
However, hiding in the bunker with a Weighted Companion Cube is perfectly normal.


I think...
I'd rather...
Stay inside...
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Mäx
post Jan 12 2010, 07:43 PM
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QUOTE (Patrick the Gnome @ Jan 12 2010, 03:50 AM) *
That would be 34 dice per attack, bunker has 17 armor, x2 = 34

Your confusing armor and tructure raitings.
Blast bunker has 32+ armor x2=64++
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