Genetic Heritage and You, a quick question Options

[Mordinvan]

That is a Quantificational fallacy (proof by example). Just because a genetic alteration treatment exists to change your hair and eye color that costs essence doesn't mean that the Genetic Heritage quality for that treatment shouldn't cost essence (getting the treatment after birth fucks with your natural DNA, hence the essence cost).

Qualia is a gene from reptiles, don't you think having that incorporated into your genetic code (from your parents) should make you fundamentally less human?

since there's an excellent chance humans may already have a copy of that gene just performing a different function...
There are humans which exist today which have the equivalent of muscle toner 4 or higher naturally.... are they less human?

[Manunancy]

since there's an excellent chance humans may already have a copy of that gene just performing a different function...
There are humans which exist today which have the equivalent of muscle toner 4 or higher naturally.... are they less human?

I don't think so - what exists IRL is peoples with attributes ranging from 1 to 7, not from one to 11. Also expressing genetic potential differently depending on lifestyle. Even with the same genes, a couch potato and a fitness maniac will en end up quite different.

If you're going on the genetic heritage thing, another sort of possible genetic heritage would be those unlucky souls living in areas like the SOX who get some frazzled genetics from their parents. Which means probably both attributes penalties and diminished essence.

In mt opinion the essence cost should carry on : you're still adding some bits of genome who shouldn't be there. Even if you're born with them, you inherit the troubles associated with the mod along with the benefits.

[Delarn]

I don't think so - what exists IRL is peoples with attributes ranging from 1 to 7, not from one to 11. Also expressing genetic potential differently depending on lifestyle. Even with the same genes, a couch potato and a fitness maniac will en end up quite different.

If you're going on the genetic heritage thing, another sort of possible genetic heritage would be those unlucky souls living in areas like the SOX who get some frazzled genetics from their parents. Which means probably both attributes penalties and diminished essence.

In mt opinion the essence cost should carry on : you're still adding some bits of genome who shouldn't be there. Even if you're born with them, you inherit the troubles associated with the mod along with the benefits.

If you have 2 parents that are blind genetically ... are you sure to be born blind ? You have big chances but it's not imposible to see someone born seeing with 2 blind parents.

First : Adam told me on twitter :

adamjury

@delarnleviathan _All_ rules are made to be interpreted. It is _your game_.
about 22 hours ago from TweetDeck in reply to delarnleviathan

So around my table the quality grant FREE of COST in both (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) and essence 1 Transgenic modification exept Adapsin that is new to 2070 so you can't be born with it.

[Karoline]

So around my table the quality grant FREE of COST in both (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) and essence 1 Transgenic modification exept Adapsin that is new to 2070 so you can't be born with it.

So why would anyone ever get the 'enhanced attribute' quality?

[Delarn]

Because Genetic heritage can only be taken once. All the qualities that have levels are stated has so ... So if you take this one as a genetic heritage from your parents then you are lucky and pay less but all other would cost you 20BPs so lucky you you can have 2 boost instead of 1.

[Mordinvan]

Whatever one may construct logically, the developers have been quite clear that the quality means "zero nuyen, full essence cost."
The argument that it gives you a good availability item would be of note, except that there is only one piece of Transgenics of availability above 12 (adapsin), and it explicitly that it is brand new, so there is no way it can be tied to Genetic Heritage. Heck it is not even allowed to affect wear bought during character creation.

So, while aestetically interesting, and maybe appropriate for character background, it is really hard to make that quality make sense pointwise.

Yours,
Joel

Unless you have the genetic heritage edge, and the escaped clone one as well....

[Karoline]

Because Genetic heritage can only be taken once. All the qualities that have levels are stated has so ... So if you take this one as a genetic heritage from your parents then you are lucky and pay less but all other would cost you 20BPs so lucky you you can have 2 boost instead of 1.

Let me rephrase: Why would anyone ever take exceptional attribute instead of Genetic Heritage? It seems rather stupid to have two almost identical qualities except that one is obviously three times as good as the other.

[Kalvan]

Let me rephrase: Why would anyone ever take exceptional attribute instead of Genetic Heritage? It seems rather stupid to have two almost identical qualities except that one is obviously three times as good as the other.

Because they stack?

[Draco18s]

Because they stack?

You're not getting it, obviously. If you're going to take ONE and ONLY ONE, why take Exceptional Attribute?

[etherial]

You're not getting it, obviously. If you're going to take ONE and ONLY ONE, why take Exceptional Attribute?

And why is Exceptional Attribute in SR4A when Genetic Heritage is strictly superior?

[WalksWithWiFi]

Augmentation is a side optional book,
though that is not the case with my group, i am sure there might be a group out there that only
uses the main book(SR4a/SR4).
Exceptional attribute has a place at their table?

[Delarn]

Let me rephrase: Why would anyone ever take exceptional attribute instead of Genetic Heritage? It seems rather stupid to have two almost identical qualities except that one is obviously three times as good as the other.

Because a careful GM would not allow it for attribute augmentation and only for Trangenic treatment. (IE The list with the Adapsin but Adapsin excluded. )

[Mordinvan]

I don't think so - what exists IRL is peoples with attributes ranging from 1 to 7, not from one to 11. Also expressing genetic potential differently depending on lifestyle. Even with the same genes, a couch potato and a fitness maniac will en end up quite different.

If you're going on the genetic heritage thing, another sort of possible genetic heritage would be those unlucky souls living in areas like the SOX who get some frazzled genetics from their parents. Which means probably both attributes penalties and diminished essence.

In mt opinion the essence cost should carry on : you're still adding some bits of genome who shouldn't be there. Even if you're born with them, you inherit the troubles associated with the mod along with the benefits.

Look up the gene called myostatin (edit) recessive. Its actually rather impressive how stupidly strong people with it can get. I'd say they hit 10 at least without too much trouble.

[Mordinvan]

And why is Exceptional Attribute in SR4A when Genetic Heritage is strictly superior?

Because not everyone will be gene enhanced, but some people will be 'naturally' superior.

[Glyph]

Yeah, but why would a player pick it is the question.

It's a moot question, though. The argument was comparing the Exceptional Attribute quality with Delarn's house rule for the Genetic Heritage quality, where it doesn't cost Essence. And apparently he resolves the issue by not letting people get the Genetic Optimization tweak with Genetic Heritage. So nothing to even compare any longer.

[Makki]

maybe one needs both

[Ophis]

But it's still genetic factors. Then you need a name giver to give a name. Human are name givers ? Then the next generation is name gived. Genetic Heritage grant a mod without essence.

Surge isn't alteration of the subjects DNA, its a phenotypic expression that is caused by a sudden increase in mana level. I repeat the genes that cause the surge effects are naturally part of the creature.

[Draco18s]

maybe one needs both

You're not getting it either, obviously. If you're going to take ONE and ONLY ONE, why take Exceptional Attribute?

[Mordinvan]

Because you're playing a character who's parents didn't have access to genetic augmentation?

[Delarn]

Surge isn't alteration of the subjects DNA, its a phenotypic expression that is caused by a sudden increase in mana level. I repeat the genes that cause the surge effects are naturally part of the creature.

Like the herited Gene... they are natural to the new born.

[Shinobi Killfist]

You're not getting it, obviously. If you're going to take ONE and ONLY ONE, why take Exceptional Attribute?

At character creation there is no reason. You can theoretically pick up exceptional attribute in play though, you can't pick up genetic heritage in play. Not that I care either way, this quality is either fairly weak or too strong either way its a loser.

[Squinky]

Yeah, but why would a player pick it is the question.

It's a moot question, though. The argument was comparing the Exceptional Attribute quality with Delarn's house rule for the Genetic Heritage quality, where it doesn't cost Essence. And apparently he resolves the issue by not letting people get the Genetic Optimization tweak with Genetic Heritage. So nothing to even compare any longer.

Just a quick clarification, it's not a house rule. He is just playing it as it reads (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Draco18s]

Like the herited Gene... they are natural to the new born.

It's all natural so long as you artificially alter the parent?

[Kalvan]

It's all natural so long as you artificially alter the parent?

To the child, yes!

[Delarn]

It's all natural so long as you artificially alter the parent?

Take salmon gene and put it in a strawberry. (OGM is that) The next generation will grow with the gene and they are no longer flagged has Salmon genes. They are a new brand of strawberries that can sustain cold better.

Alteration in a previous generation, but the next generation is not altered again it doesn't have the shock of the threatment and thus making it natural to it.