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> Why are they called dwarfs?, Shouldn't the plural be dwarves?
Smokeskin
post Jan 13 2010, 10:48 AM
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The Shadowrun books says dwarfs, but mostly it is called dwarves, isn't it? When do you use one, and when the other?

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Elfenlied
post Jan 13 2010, 10:55 AM
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In our group, we use the term "Zwerge". But then, I'm from the AGS (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I'd tend towards "dwarfs", though. Feels more intuitive.
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Doc Byte
post Jan 13 2010, 12:43 PM
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Google says:

Dwarfs: 4,150,000 hits
Dwarves: 2,070,000 hits

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Ancient History
post Jan 13 2010, 01:21 PM
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Guilty. An explanation is in order.

In regular English, the correct plural of dwarf is dwarfs. Tolkein, language master, came up with a new plural for his own works - dwarves. Like everything Tolkein, this too was shamelessly copied and integrated into the modern fantasy milieu. Mostly. At least in America. Tolkein did regret the strength of his new term, and in hindsight would have preferred to use dwarrow.

Anyway, yeah, some people in SR says dwarfs instead of dwarves. If'n I was clever, I might have tried for a fine distinction between the terms, but nah.
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Smokeskin
post Jan 13 2010, 01:21 PM
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QUOTE (Doc Byte @ Jan 13 2010, 01:43 PM) *
Google says:

Dwarfs: 4,150,000 hits
Dwarves: 2,070,000 hits

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


I checked wikipedia.

Wikipedia says http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf#Etymology

The form dwarfs is generally used for people affected by dwarfism and in reference to Dwarf Stars in astronomy; the form Dwarves is used more generally and for the mythical people described by Tolkien and others.

It sounds reasonable that dwarfism and dwarf stars are the most common uses on the net.

But since the Shadowrun dwarf metatype is not affected by dwarfism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarfism Dwarfism is a medical disorder) and is not a star type, aren't we left with "the form Dwarves is used more generally and for the mythical people"?
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The Jopp
post Jan 13 2010, 01:55 PM
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I just call them doorstops or bookends. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
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Medicineman
post Jan 13 2010, 02:40 PM
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maybe .....They don't want to use the Tolkienesk Dwarves 'cause Tolkiens LotR is Racist in the SR Universe
and thats why they're using Dwarfs instead ?

JahtaHey
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Doc Byte
post Jan 13 2010, 02:41 PM
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QUOTE (Smokeskin @ Jan 13 2010, 02:21 PM) *
But since the Shadowrun dwarf metatype is not affected by dwarfism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarfism Dwarfism is a medical disorder) and is not a star type, aren't we left with "the form Dwarves is used more generally and for the mythical people"?


IP or OP? Dwarves sounds reasonable for OP texts, IP they might be called whatever the people in 2072 prefer.


Btw, using Google for spell checking's funny. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Brazilian_Shinob...
post Jan 13 2010, 03:50 PM
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QUOTE (Medicineman @ Jan 13 2010, 11:40 AM) *
maybe .....They don't want to use the Tolkienesk Dwarves 'cause Tolkiens LotR is Racist in the SR Universe
and thats why they're using Dwarfs instead ?

JahtaHey
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Because the pumilionis meta-type is a medical condition instead of a new species brought by the increase of Mana on the world, right? Or why the robustus prefer to be called Orks instead of Orcs so people don't mistake them for the orc killer whales, right?
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Medicineman
post Jan 13 2010, 05:38 PM
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Well,well,well...
T'was but a Thought

HeyaHeyaHeya
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Randian Hero
post Jan 13 2010, 05:44 PM
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What I want to know is what do they call people with achondroplasia in Shadowrun? Oops?
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Brazilian_Shinob...
post Jan 13 2010, 05:59 PM
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Little people? It is the new politically correct thing to say, ain't it?
This way we can now distinguish both: little people are the humans with a genetic disorder that prevents growing and dwarfs(ves) are the new meta-type brought by the increase of Mana.
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Randian Hero
post Jan 13 2010, 06:24 PM
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Man, I stopped trying to be politically correct years ago. I have a dwarf friend who gets really offended when you call her one of the "little people", so I don't even bother screwing with the nomenclature.

Personally, I like calling Shadowrun dwarfs "Stouts" or "Dwarrow".
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DireRadiant
post Jan 13 2010, 06:35 PM
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Trolls call them all tossers.
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Machiavelli
post Jan 13 2010, 06:36 PM
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QUOTE (Randian Hero @ Jan 13 2010, 07:24 PM) *
Man, I stopped trying to be politically correct years ago. I have a dwarf friend who gets really offended when you call her one of the "little people", so I don't even bother screwing with the nomenclature.

Personally, I like calling Shadowrun dwarfs "Stouts" or "Dwarrow".
Politally correctness is only a version of "the cleverer gives in" and we all know where this leads to: the leadership of the dumb. So i applause you my friend in spirit.^^

We also call them "zwerge" (what a lame joke^^) but usually we call them gnomes.
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Brazilian_Shinob...
post Jan 13 2010, 07:06 PM
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QUOTE (Randian Hero @ Jan 13 2010, 03:24 PM) *
Man, I stopped trying to be politically correct years ago. I have a dwarf friend who gets really offended when you call her one of the "little people", so I don't even bother screwing with the nomenclature.

Personally, I like calling Shadowrun dwarfs "Stouts" or "Dwarrow".


I don't go fo the political correct thing either, I was just pointing it out.
Anyway, a friend of mine was asking this the other day: how the sports and the Olympical Games are handled now? Each meta-type has its own category that is also divided between adepts and mundanes? Or is it a big free-for-all?
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Dakka Dakka
post Jan 13 2010, 07:32 PM
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QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Jan 13 2010, 04:50 PM) *
Or why the robustus prefer to be called Orks instead of Orcs so people don't mistake them for the orc killer whales, right?
You do know that the dolphin is called orca, right?

I'd say dwarves as well, but I also use staves.
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Brazilian_Shinob...
post Jan 13 2010, 08:58 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Jan 13 2010, 04:32 PM) *
You do know that the dolphin is called orca, right?

I'd say dwarves as well, but I also use staves.


In portuguese we call it 'orca' I had learned that it was called 'orc' in english. Here
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etherial
post Jan 13 2010, 09:06 PM
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QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Jan 13 2010, 03:58 PM) *
In portuguese we call it 'orca' I had learned that it was called 'orc' in english. Here


That may have been how it was done in the whaling days, but most people call them "killer whales" and "dolphins" or use the latin "orca".

As for the short metatype, how about "Nelwyn" or "Peck"?
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Stahlseele
post Jan 13 2010, 09:27 PM
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QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Jan 13 2010, 07:36 PM) *
Politally correctness is only a version of "the cleverer gives in" and we all know where this leads to: the leadership of the dumb. So i applause you my friend in spirit.^^

We also call them "zwerge" (what a lame joke^^) but usually we call them gnomes.

why is that a lame joke?
it's the correct name for the race in german after all. at least call them gartenzwerge.
also, gnomes are a sub category of the dwarfs. So it could be a bit misleading there.
calling them heinzelmännchen would be better. dangerous, but better in that regard.
and yes, all this name calling, the little funnies and the short jokes are the small reason why i don't play them even in a short time and fashion.
see how easy that is? i just did it 4 times in one sentence <.< . . nomw imagine that in a group full of punsters . .
Nobody makes fun of trolls, even if they are seen as dumb, big, ugly, strong and tough brutes. mainly because they are seen as dumb, big ugly, strong and tough brutes.
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crash2029
post Jan 13 2010, 11:27 PM
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This actually reminds me of the GURPS basic set:

Dwarfism-This is the genetic disorder and not to be confused with fantasy dwarves. Though it is possible to be a dwarf dwarf...

Of course, being GURPS there is gigantism as well. When combined with fantasy races can lead to 6' tall dwarves and giants. In SR once I was in a party with a troll with dwarfism. Of course this was the same GM that allowed someone to play a Klingon (!) once. Yeah. I have been in some wierd ass games.
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The Jake
post Jan 14 2010, 01:32 AM
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QUOTE (Smokeskin @ Jan 13 2010, 11:48 AM) *
The Shadowrun books says dwarfs, but mostly it is called dwarves, isn't it? When do you use one, and when the other?


EDIT: Seems I'm mistaken - I believe accepted use of language allows both dwarves and dwarfs as equally valid.


- J.
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wind_in_the_ston...
post Jan 14 2010, 03:11 AM
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QUOTE (Ancient History @ Jan 13 2010, 09:21 AM) *
Tolkein, language master, came up with a new plural for his own works - dwarves. Like everything Tolkein, this too was shamelessly copied and integrated into the modern fantasy milieu. Mostly. At least in America. Tolkein did regret the strength of his new term, and in hindsight would have preferred to use dwarrow.


I heard it was a mistake, that he admitted to later on. But I never heard that about "dwarrow," so you're probably right.
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etherial
post Jan 14 2010, 05:09 AM
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QUOTE (wind_in_the_stones @ Jan 13 2010, 10:11 PM) *
I heard it was a mistake, that he admitted to later on. But I never heard that about "dwarrow," so you're probably right.


No, "dwarfin" and "elfin" were editorial decisions made by the printers that were the mistake.
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crash2029
post Jan 14 2010, 05:34 AM
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I was thinking of suggesting Dwemer.
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