[New to Shadowrun] Questions, Altering the backstory & incorporating Horrors Options

[ProfessorPhobos]

I played Shadowrun briefly in high school many years ago, and didn't really give it a second thought until recently when I saw DriveThruRPG had the core PDFs for $50 in a bundle, and the corebook itself was only $15. I figured, why not?

Well, I was pleasantly surprised at how much I liked the corebook. I think elements of the Shadowrun game are a little hard to take seriously, but...in all honesty, I've come up with plot hooks by the dozen in the short time I've been reading the corebook and skimming the supplements. Whatever the faults of the backstory, the game more than makes up for it by having an intuitive, compelling hook for scenarios and characters.

So I was actually going to sit down and get a basic campaign outline done so I can include it on my next prospectus. I give my group a list of campaign ideas I think I could run satisfyingly and they vote on which one we do next; I usually like to have at least the basics of a campaign "ready to go" at that point, to be later modified in the face of the characters produced by the players.

So I had some questions. Mundanely...of the additional rulebooks (Street Magic, Runner's Companion, Arsenal, Augmentation, Unwired) which are the most necessary? What should I watch out for or be careful with? I haven't given them a detailed perusal yet and probably wouldn't unless I actually had to sit down and prepare a campaign. Of the other supplements, which are the best/most useful? I'm definitely considering grabbing Vice and Seattle 2072, but what about Running Wild, Feral Cities, etc?

Perhaps more contentiously, certain elements of the backstory I just cannot accept. Specifically, an insurgency of Native Americans against the US government and concentration camps, etc. I was thinking of having the Native American Nations being a more direct consequence of the awakening. Specifically, very powerful nature spirits woke up and demanded that descendants of allied/favored tribes be placed in actual political control over what regions were still mystically active enough to fall under their dominion. So this basically creates the NANs, not after a protracted, bloody conflict, but just as a metaphysical necessity- the US government couldn't fight nature itself, so it gave in and ceded territory. I'd add many more exclave cities like Seattle or Denver; Phoenix at the very least, probably also Portland, Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas etc- any area heavily urbanized would be no longer in the magical territory of the nature spirits. The NANs immediately granted citizenship to anyone with even the slightest trace of Amerindian blood, everyone else emigrated to US (later, UCAS) exclave cities, forming heavily urbanized and densely populated sprawls. The NANs don't have an ideal relationship with the UCAS and are genuinely independent states, but the relationship isn't outright hostile and there's travel, economic integration, etc, between them.

I was going to include a NATO/EU like entity called the "Denver Treaty Organization" integrating very high level policy between North American states, including a defense partnership. I'm curious to know from Shadowrun experts how much this would break the backstory- the borders don't change, but the political situation in North America is perhaps less volatile. Since I don't want to really mess with the world map too extensively, I figure Tir Tairngire's creation is actually considerably less well-received than the creation of the NANs and the UCAS, but when you've got dragons and ancient magic and super-elves and such, people make compromises.

The other thing I find highly questionable is the Confederated American States and the California Free State; it doesn't seem like California benefited much from seceding since it seems to get the ever living shit kicked out of it over and over again, and the CAS couldn't even prevent a whole swath of Texas being annexed by Aztlan. Since I don't want to screw with the map too badly, I was going to leave CalFree as part of the setting but just ignore the CAS entirely. Does this break the setting all that much? Alternatively, I could just have the UCAS/CAS breakup be fairly amicable and both are strong allies and mutual members of the DTO, but that leaves it a mystery why Aztlan could annex parts of Texas without triggering a war (How did they manage that, anyway? I must have missed it in the history chapter). I know balkanization is a part of the setting designed to increase the pre-eminence of the megacorporations, but it really feels like the United States got hit with the Hammer of Plot over the course of sixty years, to a degree that feels even more unbelievable than cyborg elves.

Anyway, my last question is about the connections to this "Earthdawn" game, which I've also been considering recently. I wanted to work the Horrors in somehow to any Shadowrun game I'd run. Is there a book that has stats for them or descriptions? Are the Earthdawn rules compatible with the Shadowrun rules?

[tete]

Personal Opinion (Most Useful)
1. Arsenal
2. tie for Augmentation & Street Magic
4. Unwired
5. Runner's Companion

I like Running Wild a lot (not as much as Seattle 2072 but Seattle 2072 may be my favorite Shadowrun book ever!) Its useful if you are going to have paranormal animals in your Shadowrun.

I feel you can add to and leave out any part of the story you want to as long as your players know about it up front. You don't say "We are playing Shadowrun" you say "I want to use Shadowrun 4e for my own version of the world, things will be a little different but I'll send y'all copies of the changes before hand"

IIRC Street Magic has bugs in it which are part of the Horrors.
Earthdawn rules have never been compatible with Shadowrun rules.

[Draco18s]

Personal Opion (most useful)
1 Arsenal
2 Street Magic
3 Runners Companion
4 Augmentation
5 Unwired

Arsenal is very useful for everyone and Street Magic really allows the magic types to grow.

Personally I like the qualities in RC even if the new races aren't up to snuff and there is some room for abuse. Advanced lifestyles though are very well done and provide your players with a little extra freedom, as well as explaining just what "low" lifestyle really means.

Augmentation has its uses, but is generally less useful than some of the other books (for your cybermonkies its candy, for anyone else it's not needed).

Unwired is just terrible, the only useful parts are the fluff explaining how the matrix works.

[Adarael]

Perhaps more contentiously, certain elements of the backstory I just cannot accept. Specifically, an insurgency of Native Americans against the US government and concentration camps, etc. I was thinking of having the Native American Nations being a more direct consequence of the awakening. Specifically, very powerful nature spirits woke up and demanded that descendants of allied/favored tribes be placed in actual political control over what regions were still mystically active enough to fall under their dominion... The NANs immediately granted citizenship to anyone with even the slightest trace of Amerindian blood, everyone else emigrated to US (later, UCAS) exclave cities, forming heavily urbanized and densely populated sprawls.

Actually, this is almost EXACTLY what happened, and requires almost no revising of "official" history, save to change the motivations of the spirits aiding Daniel Howling Coyote and perhaps push back the date at which SAIM had access to magic, or push the date of the major SAIM activities forward a bit.

To my knowledge, the NAN did grant citizenship with anyone with a scrap of amerind blood. At least I recall reading that. The PCC in particular is especially open about their opportunism: they allowed people to buy in from the get-go.

[LivingOxymoron]

I played Shadowrun briefly in high school many years ago, and didn't really give it a second thought until recently when I saw DriveThruRPG had the core PDFs for $50 in a bundle, and the corebook itself was only $15. I figured, why not?

Well, I was pleasantly surprised at how much I liked the corebook. I think elements of the Shadowrun game are a little hard to take seriously, but...in all honesty, I've come up with plot hooks by the dozen in the short time I've been reading the corebook and skimming the supplements. Whatever the faults of the backstory, the game more than makes up for it by having an intuitive, compelling hook for scenarios and characters.

So I was actually going to sit down and get a basic campaign outline done so I can include it on my next prospectus. I give my group a list of campaign ideas I think I could run satisfyingly and they vote on which one we do next; I usually like to have at least the basics of a campaign "ready to go" at that point, to be later modified in the face of the characters produced by the players.

So I had some questions. Mundanely...of the additional rulebooks (Street Magic, Runner's Companion, Arsenal, Augmentation, Unwired) which are the most necessary? What should I watch out for or be careful with? I haven't given them a detailed perusal yet and probably wouldn't unless I actually had to sit down and prepare a campaign. Of the other supplements, which are the best/most useful? I'm definitely considering grabbing Vice and Seattle 2072, but what about Running Wild, Feral Cities, etc?

I'd say Arsenal is a must, as it has not only weaponry and armor, but gear of all types, as well as drugs and chems... that book basically has more stuff usable by more people than any other.

Augmentation is a great sourcebook that covers things that everyone would use or be interested in... except for magic users. Then again, it's also a good sourcebook for GMs.

Unwired has a lot of great fluff for the Matrix as a whole, but is really only useful to Technomancers and Hackers. The same holds true for Street Magic/Magic Users, but with less useable fluff.

Runners Companion is a total optional rules book. There are a lot of great ideas, but they make the game more complex (such as more detailed lifestyle rules), rather than simpler.

Perhaps more contentiously, certain elements of the backstory I just cannot accept. Specifically, an insurgency of Native Americans against the US government and concentration camps, etc. I was thinking of having the Native American Nations being a more direct consequence of the awakening. Specifically, very powerful nature spirits woke up and demanded that descendants of allied/favored tribes be placed in actual political control over what regions were still mystically active enough to fall under their dominion. So this basically creates the NANs, not after a protracted, bloody conflict, but just as a metaphysical necessity- the US government couldn't fight nature itself, so it gave in and ceded territory. I'd add many more exclave cities like Seattle or Denver; Phoenix at the very least, probably also Portland, Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas etc- any area heavily urbanized would be no longer in the magical territory of the nature spirits. The NANs immediately granted citizenship to anyone with even the slightest trace of Amerindian blood, everyone else emigrated to US (later, UCAS) exclave cities, forming heavily urbanized and densely populated sprawls. The NANs don't have an ideal relationship with the UCAS and are genuinely independent states, but the relationship isn't outright hostile and there's travel, economic integration, etc, between them

.

Go with what works for you. Be aware that there have been lots of politics and changes over the 20 years of the game. Pueblo has swallowed Ute and SoCal, the Tir broke away from the Salish Shidhe Council to become its own nation, Aztlan was originally a member of the Soverign Tribal Council (the NAN states), and the Tsimshian were always douchebags. You can change whatever you want (it IS your game) but there's also a lot of source material to pull from if you leave it alone.

I was going to include a NATO/EU like entity called the "Denver Treaty Organization" integrating very high level policy between North American states, including a defense partnership. I'm curious to know from Shadowrun experts how much this would break the backstory- the borders don't change, but the political situation in North America is perhaps less volatile. Since I don't want to really mess with the world map too extensively, I figure Tir Tairngire's creation is actually considerably less well-received than the creation of the NANs and the UCAS, but when you've got dragons and ancient magic and super-elves and such, people make compromises.

I would say that if you do this, you'd have to realistically shift the balance of power between the Nation-State and the Corporation as rival entities... the corps would not want the nations of North America to actually cooperate with one another... that would be a hindrance to the free market and profit! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Bear in mind that in the Shadowrun world, nations don't really get along with one another like they do in our world. Denver exists to keep war from breaking out, not to help nations help each other! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

The other thing I find highly questionable is the Confederated American States and the California Free State; it doesn't seem like California benefited much from seceding since it seems to get the ever living shit kicked out of it over and over again, and the CAS couldn't even prevent a whole swath of Texas being annexed by Aztlan. Since I don't want to screw with the map too badly, I was going to leave CalFree as part of the setting but just ignore the CAS entirely. Does this break the setting all that much? Alternatively, I could just have the UCAS/CAS breakup be fairly amicable and both are strong allies and mutual members of the DTO, but that leaves it a mystery why Aztlan could annex parts of Texas without triggering a war (How did they manage that, anyway? I must have missed it in the history chapter). I know balkanization is a part of the setting designed to increase the pre-eminence of the megacorporations, but it really feels like the United States got hit with the Hammer of Plot over the course of sixty years, to a degree that feels even more unbelievable than cyborg elves.

1.) The CAS has received very little attention, but I love it. They are a reasonably powerful nation that didn't roll over to the Corporate Court and corporate extraterritoriality. The are the "real Americans", in love with mom and apple pie and keepers of the original constitution, trying to keep the whole idea of a nation state alive and well. They have one of the most effective anti-corp intelligence gathering operations in the world (the ERLA), and require the megacorps to LEASE their extraterritorial land... which may be revoked at any time. They also have submersible aircraft carriers. Can you contemplate how awesome that is????? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

2.) CalFree is, pretty much a hellhole, but its a hellhole for a reason. It got f*cked over due to a bad bluff by the governor. Basically, when the CAS seceded, California held a referendum to do so as well... mostly expecting the UCAS to offer concession to keep them in. The UCAS called their bluff and just said "buh-bye". California had to call in the Japanese megas to stay afloat... and the rest is history.

3.) The UCAS and CAS are rivals, but they are also friendly to each other when it comes to everyone else. I'm sure they have some sort of mutual defense pact, but not a full fledged strategic alliance.

4.) Texas complained to the rest of the CAS that Aztlan was making it jumpy. The CAS didn't do what the Texans wanted, so they seceded from the CAS. Aztlan moves in, seizes territory, Texas is unable to recapture it, and rejoins the CAS to keep from losing anymore territory.

5.) EVERYONE got hit with the plot hammer, except maybe Japan. I can't think of a single nation that is intact. There are at least 5 or 6 Chinese nations, the Sikhs broke away from the rest of India, Germany and Italy are in pieces, Russia lost a chunk of territory to shapeshifters... the only nations that got BIGGER were Aztlan and Amazonia.

Anyway, my last question is about the connections to this "Earthdawn" game, which I've also been considering recently. I wanted to work the Horrors in somehow to any Shadowrun game I'd run. Is there a book that has stats for them or descriptions? Are the Earthdawn rules compatible with the Shadowrun rules?

No and no. They've kind of gotten away from the horrors in 3rd and 4th ed. Dunkelzhan sacrificed himself to seal the rift. I think that the only real reference to them that comes to mind are the 2nd ed books Harlequin (and Harlequin's back), and Threats.

[ProfessorPhobos]

Hmm. I wonder if it's worth it to pick up the Earthdawn books just for the details on the ancient history, or just roll with the idea that the Horrors are Big Mysterious Scary Things and work up the details myself.

Texas complained to the rest of the CAS that Aztlan was making it jumpy. The CAS didn't do what the Texans wanted, so they seceded from the CAS. Aztlan moves in, seizes territory, Texas is unable to recapture it, and rejoins the CAS to keep from losing anymore territory.

Interesting. It would stand to reason there's an insurgent movement in "occupied Texas" amongst CAS loyalists against the Aztlan authority, then? Might be a fun little bit of regional tension.

[LivingOxymoron]

Hmm. I wonder if it's worth it to pick up the Earthdawn books just for the details on the ancient history, or just roll with the idea that the Horrors are Big Mysterious Scary Things and work up the details myself.



Interesting. It would stand to reason there's an insurgent movement in "occupied Texas" amongst CAS loyalists against the Aztlan authority, then? Might be a fun little bit of regional tension.

Makes sense to me. Aztlan is a pretty brutal police state, but they're stretched pretty thin. They had to abandon the Yucatan because they now have to worry about a larger and more powerful PCC and rising tensions with Amazonia, and they got kicked out of Denver (with their land going to the CAS). If I were a betting man, I'd say that there were at least one or two CAS Ferret teams laying the groundwork for an insurgency should the opportunity present itself (like a full-blown war with Amazonia).

[ProfessorPhobos]

In any event, this is my preliminary list of "Other UCAS Exclaves Like Seattle and Denver..."

Phoenix, Las Vegas, Portland, Edmonton, Salt Lake City, Anchorage, Vancouver and Calgary. Most of these incorporate nearby major cities- SLC sprawl includes Ogden and Provo, Phoenix includes Mesa, etc.

That's about the only major change I think I'll make. The CAS might be a little silly but it seems like I can do more with it than without it.

[LivingOxymoron]

In any event, this is my preliminary list of "Other UCAS Exclaves Like Seattle and Denver..."

Phoenix, Las Vegas, Portland, Edmonton, Salt Lake City, Anchorage, Vancouver and Calgary. Most of these incorporate nearby major cities- SLC sprawl includes Ogden and Provo, Phoenix includes Mesa, etc.

That's about the only major change I think I'll make. The CAS might be a little silly but it seems like I can do more with it than without it.

For what its worth, Salt Lake City is depicted as being a sovereign City-State (first located in Ute, now PCC). Canon says that the Mormons sided with the natives and received SLC in exchange. The entire city is a giant mana sink.

Also, giving up Phoenix means making a radical change to the nature of the Pueblo Corporate Council. They are depicted as being cutting-edge technology, exceeding the Anglo nations in some areas, in addition to their use of traditional magic and their integration of non-natives into the nation (so long as they purchase a residential share). So to take away their biggest sprawl from them is to change who they are.

[ProfessorPhobos]

Thanks for the heads-up on the PCC. I'm comfortable with them losing Phoenix; it creates a kind of "Southwestern Seattle" I can send my runners. Threatened by Aztlan, greedily eyed by the PCC, cut off from the UCAS. Nice little flashpoint.

What do you mean by "mana sink" vis a vis Salt Lake City?

[LivingOxymoron]

Thanks for the heads-up on the PCC. I'm comfortable with them losing Phoenix; it creates a kind of "Southwestern Seattle" I can send my runners. Threatened by Aztlan, greedily eyed by the PCC, cut off from the UCAS. Nice little flashpoint.

What do you mean by "mana sink" vis a vis Salt Lake City?

The whole city is one big Level 4 mana ebb. Basically, a spell's effect (but not drain) is treated as 4 levels of force lower than it is cast at. So a Force 6 stunbolt only has the effect of a Force 2 stunbolt (But with Force 6 drain). Same thing for spirits. The average is 4, but parts of the city fluctuate between 2 and 6.

[ProfessorPhobos]

Interesting. Any reason ever given for why? Do other heavily religious cities have the same effect? (Jerusalem, Rome, Mecca, etc...)

[LivingOxymoron]

Interesting. Any reason ever given for why? Do other heavily religious cities have the same effect? (Jerusalem, Rome, Mecca, etc...)

No reason is given, but it is implied that it is an effect that has nothing to do with the fact that the Mormons are there. In fact, Shadows of North America seems to imply the opposite... that the Mormons shun magic BECAUSE Salt Lake City has such a strong mana ebb.

[WyldKnight]

While that is true the idea of Holy Sites having some sort of magical effect isn't that much of a stretch. Heck in contested cities divided by different religions each section could be aspected to that type of mage.

[Draco18s]

While that is true the idea of Holy Sites having some sort of magical effect isn't that much of a stretch. Heck in contested cities divided by different religions each section could be aspected to that type of mage.

Heck, I could see mages fighting over the area to aspect it their way (see: contested geomancy).

[nezumi]

Oxymoron filled in details *VERY* well (and even taught this old dog a few things (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )

Regarding horrors, there are only a few small examples of critters which might be horrors in Shadowrun, and I don't know if the rules carried over to SR4 (namely wraiths). There are no statted named horrors in SR that I'm aware of. However, I have used horrors in Shadowrun successfully. Horrors span the gamut from nuisances to world-altering monsters, and their trademark is extreme diversity, so basically whatever you want to do with them is fine. However, look into scoring a copy of the Earthdawn book Horrors for ideas.

Do note that many SR players do not like the idea of Horrors/ED crossover at all. Make sure your players are okay with this.

[ProfessorPhobos]

None of my players are Shadowrun veterans, so it wouldn't be an issue. My plan for using the Horrors is as the background "Big Bad"/"A Plot" for a mostly episodic, street level game. Basically, the campaign is inspired heavily by Burn Notice and would use that basic format.

Burn Notice is divided into three kinds of plots, all advanced each episode. There's the challenge-of-the-week (a given Shadowrun), the ongoing 'main plot' involving shadowy conspiratorial forces involving the characters, and the ongoing character plots involving interpersonal relationships of the characters individually. This I think is a decent format for Shadowrun. I'd toss in some Shield-esque "inescapable consequences", such that there'd be regular follow-ups from the shadowrun-of-the-week (in a way Burn Notice tries to avoid so as to be easy for new viewers).

Basically the ongoing plot would involve the characters having some kind of premonition or insight into a manifestation of a Horror, and trying to figure that out. My idea is that in the opening shadowrun of the campaign they'd be exposed to some kind of Mystical McGuffin (an artifact, whatever) that grants them obscure and cryptic visions every so often after that point, pointing to some Big Nasty Thing on the horizon. Most of the time it'd just be street-level crime stuff, but for 'season finales' and the like, the Main Plot of evil cultists, horrible things From Beyond, etc, would come to the forefront.

[Randian Hero]

Brother, I understand where you're coming from completely. I outlined a list of things I try to downplay or outright ignore in this thread. Cray74 mentioned some changes he made to canon that I think are particularly helpful for those of us who think the core stuff needs a little work.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Regarding the NAN there is a big thread from a while ago.
Now, I would let Phoenix to pueblo. Denver is a great runner's haven already.

[ProfessorPhobos]

Oh, side question- are there "radiation spirits" or anything like that? It seems like Shadowrun has implausibly bad nuclear safety technology, but if every nuclear reactor around the time of the awakening suddenly had an active, sentient spirit of radioactivity at its core that needed to be appeased, it makes a lot more sense for there to be so many meltdowns.

[Randian Hero]

Oh, side question- are there "radiation spirits" or anything like that? It seems like Shadowrun has implausibly bad nuclear safety technology, but if every nuclear reactor around the time of the awakening suddenly had an active, sentient spirit of radioactivity at its core that needed to be appeased, it makes a lot more sense for there to be so many meltdowns.

If I remember correctly, in the earlier editions, there were. Cray74 also mentioned the usage of containment domes because of that implausibly bad safety technology.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Oh, side question- are there "radiation spirits" or anything like that? It seems like Shadowrun has implausibly bad nuclear safety technology, but if every nuclear reactor around the time of the awakening suddenly had an active, sentient spirit of radioactivity at its core that needed to be appeased, it makes a lot more sense for there to be so many meltdowns.

I think they are the same or closely related to toxic spirits.

[LivingOxymoron]

Oh, side question- are there "radiation spirits" or anything like that? It seems like Shadowrun has implausibly bad nuclear safety technology, but if every nuclear reactor around the time of the awakening suddenly had an active, sentient spirit of radioactivity at its core that needed to be appeased, it makes a lot more sense for there to be so many meltdowns.

It also might make sense as to why there were so many ICBMs being thrown around in the early 2000's that never detonated. (Korea, Lone Eagle Incident, etc.)

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Good recall on that one. It would make sense.

[Manunancy]

There are radiation spirits - and they exist only in toxic version. Having one hanging around a nuclear plant is likely to end up badly.