Concerning the Hobgoblins Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[lonewolf23k]

Of all the variant Metatypes, I think the Hobgoblin (the middle-eastern Ork variant) is the only one that really bugs me, for two reasons: One, the middle-eastern/central asian ork metavariant is known for being aggressive and vindictive. Unfortunate Implications much? And two, the name "hobgoblin" isn't even arabic. While I can accept the name as being used by westerners, I doubt actual arabic speakers would use the term. A more appropriate term would've been the new Zoroastrian term "Daeva", which refers to supernatural entities with disagreeable attributes, which just about fits the same concept.

Meanwhile, the giant metavariant of trolls fit the middle-east nicely enough, as would a variant of Elves based on the Peri from Persian mythology.

[Ancient History]

Going for blatant honesty here: your concerns are noted and studiously ignored.

[lonewolf23k]

Well as long as we're being honest about it...

...I just think that while all the other metavariants actually seem to echo regional myths, like the Onis, Satyrs and the Wakyambi, the Hobgoblin just doesn't "fit" with that theme.

[Ancient History]

Which is, not to be offensive, your first mistake. Metavariants are not based on the myths of the region and quite possibly those same myths aren't based on them either. The names given to them are based on their appearance and where they show up, but that doesn't mean that they are those mythical things. In this specific case, the hobgoblin metavariant is based more on Tolkein than any particular mythical critter of the region.

Which, if you really want to stretch a point, goes back a ways in Shadowrun. Orks and trolls "Goblinized" and were part of the "Goblin races" - the phrase "Goblin Detective" literally meant an Ork detective at one point. Then they introduced actual "goblins" - HMHVV-infected dwarfs who were skinny, green, with pointed ears and teeth. The hobgoblins (which, in Tolkein's works at least, were simply bigger goblins) were skinny orks - who happened to be green with pointed ears and teeth. Doesn't take a stretch to see how someone familiar with goblins who apply that particular misnomer to one of the "Goblin races."

[lonewolf23k]

All right, fair enough. It's just one of those things that seemed odd to me.

[crash2029]

When it comes to the hobgoblin's reputed agressive tendancies I put forth that in this area of the world metahuman predjudice is massively high. After all, social behaviors are a learned response. In an area where simply being different can get you stoned it is not hard to imagine developing antisocial behaviors as a matter of course. Living up to the "big bad hobgoblin" stereotype can help prevent abuse.

[Sengir]

Metavariants are not based on the myths of the region

Huh?

[Ancient History]

Look at any of the magical critters in Shadowrun and tell me how much they correlate to the actual myth and folklore of those critters for the region and the cultures that inhabit them. The range extends from not a whole hell of a lot to maybe if I squint and give it the benefit of the doubt. So elves, you can see how those look like the popular modern conception of elves, based on fifty years of Tolkein-itis. Chimera? Not so much.

[Sengir]

Critters maybe, but (nearly) all metavariants which are described to appear only in certain areas are clearly based on local mythology. And while that is never explained in game, on a meta level the explaination is rather obvious (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Stahlseele]

I thought it was once theorized in Universe that the Mana Cycles had something to do with that.
All the Stories about elves, trolls, orks and dwarves?
Yeah, basically just leftovers from the memories of the time when they were real.
Or something like that.

[Sengir]

Some say real Minotaurs are the basis of the legends about them - others say it is the other way round, that real Minotaurs are a projection of mankind's beliefs. The whole concept of mana cycles does not seem to be a commonly accepted theory in the 6th World.

[Stahlseele]

Even if it's been told live on TV by our great Big D.

[Sengir]

"A dragon said so" is a good argument against something (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

"A dragon said so" is a good argument against something (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Even so when said Dragon is also a politician (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

[GreyBrother]

And a wizard. (did it)

[crash2029]

"A dragon said so" is a good argument against something (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

For a normal dragon sure, but we are talking about Big D.