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> Shadowrun CharEd (preview), A Karma character generator/Editor for Shadowrun4A
Surukai
post Jan 21 2010, 04:55 PM
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CharEd
In lack of a more witty name it is what the folder is named in my dev environment.

We've been using Deaganns quite nifty tool for a long time but other than that it was a bit low on tools that handled karma build system. I know the excel magic one seem to work fine for most but when I want to keep track of multiple NPCs and characters I wanted something closer to a real program (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Anyway, here is a tiny sample with basic looks and feel of the program

Screenshot (Why is [img] broken?)

Jan 21 CharEd 0.1.0.32
Jan 22 CharEd 0.1.2.5
Jan 25 CharEd 0.1.2.7
Feb 4 CharEd 0.1.3.3
(NOTE: Requires .net 2.0 or later (not tested in mono))

Note
Allthough you can click around, raise and lower attributes, add, remove and fiddle with skills and even save and load characters it is by no means a useful program yet!

It would be pretty simple to add BP too at some point but since we don't use it because it promotes min-maxing and penalties characters who go broad and pick up utility skills. (Character A starts with Agility 6, charisma 1, Character B starts with Agility 5, Charisma 2, if A raise charisma to 2 and B agility 6 they BOTH end up with 6, 2 but B have to pay THREE TIMES as much karma for the same result)
And, since BP is so easy to use it doesn't need a program to help out and is more useful for when creating characters directly on paper.


All data is in either XML or appsettings (i.e what books to include and enabling/Disabling house rules) so it should be far easier to both maintain and correct. (And hopefully get a few extra hands filling out all lists of skills, augmentations, gear, etc).

The sheet will transform based on the first selection (Technomancer, Mundane, Magician, ...) so that mundanes get augmentation box where mages have their spells and technomancers keep their complex forms (just an example)


We've just been on this project for 3 days so it's not near completion but the XMLs have fields that should allow things like upgradeable gear (Prime example is a cyberlimb that slots stuff in it's capacaty instead of essence or a commlink with response upgrade, weapons with mods and so on).


Suggested method of exporting is through printing. (CutePDF and similar allow you to turn any software capable of printing into something able to export to PDF ^^). HTML is another option if somone got spare time on their hands (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Feedback
Here I'll add feedback and ideas, since it is way too early I know you won't be able to provide any useful feedback at this point but any ideas are welcome and hopefully this'll be usable within a very foreseeable time frame ^^
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Surukai
post Jan 22 2010, 07:25 PM
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Some updates for today.

All SR4A skills and qualities are entered into the xmls. A system for effects (like aptitude actually giving you new max of 7 in a skill!) is there and works on both adding and removing the quality again. Same with exceptional attribute or Luck (basically exceptional Edge...).

Skills contain specializations and those can be picked and removed. Two sample knowledge skills added too but here is where I need some help.

Is there a somewhat detailed and complete list of _sample_/_suggested_ knowledge skills I could use?
Please come with suggestions!

New version is in the original post.

Exceptional attribute and such is a proof of concept that it'll be possible to handle augmentations etc. fully and leave far less manual labour to the character once it is done in the chargen.

Please try it out and comment, the later we find design flaws the more work it'll be to correct them! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Surukai
post Jan 25 2010, 08:54 PM
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75+ views and no replies?


Anyway, today's update adds support for ALL sr4a positive qualities and all negative except the three that modify specific skill costs (infirm, uncoth and uneducated). The skill costs are in a table so it should be possible to update but I got lazy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Additionally, healthboxes are now fixed so the health boxes and damage modifiers reflect the character's pain tolerance and body and will to live statistics.


Next focus will probably be Augmentations but we'll see how long it'll take until we have to fix the upgradable stuff (i.e. chem gland with delivery methods or cyberlimbs with stuff inside them). The upgrade/mod Gui will require some work and thus take a little time to fix.

Questions and help needed
I still need some suggestions about knowledge skills. What do you use? Different generators use vastly different lists and many skills overlap in a way that is confusing.

I also want other inputs and ideas and if somone got spare time on their hands I could use a bunch of help filling out xml tables with descriptions of some qualities and in near future: all gear lists and there is a LOT of stuff to be bought!

Please dl the latest release from the first post and fiddle around. The idea is to have a chargen that ALSO can keep playing characters up to date with earned karma and new gear etc.
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bmcoomes
post Jan 25 2010, 09:41 PM
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It looks really nice, still needs a lot of information to be added still which is to be expected.
As with knowledge skills I'd leave it to imputing them your self. The reason is there is a vast difference from one GM to the next point and case I like having the base knowledge skill being very broad so one can specialize down in to more specific fields. (I would even allow multiple specializations for knowledge skills) But an other GM from a game I'm playing like the skills to be more focused.
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10gauge
post Jan 26 2010, 07:48 AM
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Links don't work.
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Surukai
post Jan 26 2010, 08:16 AM
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I can't seem to find any problems with the links but maybe it was my server that was acting up? Can someone confirm if the links are broken because it seem to work for me.
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10gauge
post Jan 26 2010, 01:37 PM
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...
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10gauge
post Jan 26 2010, 01:37 PM
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Now it works.
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Sengir
post Jan 27 2010, 01:22 PM
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For some reason I can't enter any data except in the character section...my stupidity or the program's fault? Using Win 7 X46 here.

Besides that, I like the XML approach (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Surukai
post Jan 27 2010, 01:34 PM
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I think I didn't make how to work the program very obvious. If you click "Cancel" at the choose type window no character will be loaded, you'll have to select File->new or load an existing.

To update skills/attributes etc. you hit the desired number (1-9 0 for 10) or use + and - to increase/decrease. You add skills and qualities from the list on the right hand menu by double clicking on them. I could add a button "add quality/skill/gear" that does the same thing but I have tried to minimze the double-input methods while it is beta to save some work. (Or said button might decide to fail when I change something later and I fail to notice since I used double click in my testing)

When you select some qualities they pop another dialogue asking for further input. You can't pick Aptitude without knowing any skills for example (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Specalizations are picked by selecting the skill and then double clicking on the desired specialization. There is an "empty" specialization at the top of the list to clear. (This could use a more intuitive way of clearing specialization)
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Arphie
post Jan 27 2010, 01:36 PM
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Surukai was waaay ahead of me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

This post has been edited by Arphie: Jan 27 2010, 01:37 PM
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Sengir
post Jan 30 2010, 01:20 PM
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QUOTE (Surukai @ Jan 27 2010, 02:34 PM) *
To update skills/attributes etc. you hit the desired number (1-9 0 for 10)

Did just that and nothing happened. I tried it again now and it works like it should *hrmpf*
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Saint Sithney
post Jan 30 2010, 09:07 PM
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I like where this is headed. Specifically like how it's centered in karmagen.

If you haven't checked out the DaisyBox char generator, it's got a whole lot of nice little features, especially on the gear side of things, but the best feature of all has to be the ability to add in custom items, feats and so on. The ability to drop in fresh data to fit house rules and such is really great. If you could make an in-program way to add in things, then you don't have to worry so much about getting 100% of the other elements entered in yourself. So, players can just make and enter their own knowledge skills.
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Surukai
post Jan 31 2010, 10:18 PM
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QUOTE (Saint Sithney @ Jan 30 2010, 10:07 PM) *
The ability to drop in fresh data to fit house rules and such is really great. If you could make an in-program way to add in things, then you don't have to worry so much about getting 100% of the other elements entered in yourself. So, players can just make and enter their own knowledge skills.


That is a good thing. I did dismiss the idea of in-program editing of the data because I didn't want to create additional GUI elements to support that but Arphie (my idea bouncer) have also suggested this. And, even if it is fully XML today and it is more a matter of copy and paste and change the values to add new stuff it is somewhat error prone and not that easy compared to a good in-program editor.

At the very least I need to add support to add own things like specializations and knowledge skills. I'll add it to my list!
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Delarn
post Jan 31 2010, 11:50 PM
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Is it possible for you to make an option box for BP or Karma. I'm not using your program because of the Karma version of the generation.
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Surukai
post Feb 1 2010, 01:23 PM
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I did think about a BP option but did skip it to start with because I assumed everyone used Daisybox's or Deagann's app that do BP. It wouldn't be hard since most BP costs are simple but I didn't want to step on their turf (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Delarn
post Feb 1 2010, 01:43 PM
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QUOTE (Surukai @ Feb 1 2010, 01:23 PM) *
I did think about a BP option but did skip it to start with because I assumed everyone used Daisybox's or Deagann's app that do BP. It wouldn't be hard since most BP costs are simple but I didn't want to step on their turf (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Daisybox's and Daegann's are not fit for my taste.
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Fireleaf
post Feb 2 2010, 12:21 AM
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I like the layout and the fact you use XML data. Depending on what language you use I'd be willing to help you out as I have time.
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Surukai
post Feb 3 2010, 10:47 PM
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QUOTE (Fireleaf @ Feb 2 2010, 01:21 AM) *
I like the layout and the fact you use XML data. Depending on what language you use I'd be willing to help you out as I have time.


The program is written in C# (VS 2005), it would of course be possible to put it on a version control server of favourite type (SVN maybe) to let others help out but there might be a lot of work just describing the current design so it becomes easy for other developers to add to the code.

However, something that really needs assistance is ideas and monkey-work on entering stuff into XMLs. I've used Arphie so far but more paws on that would be awesome!
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Surukai
post Feb 3 2010, 11:04 PM
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New test version to show that there is still some activity on this project.

We've been a bit slow lately, sorry for that. New so far is a skeleton for Bioware (And more general, augmentations). Bioware supports different ratings and have availability, cost and essence costs accordingly. The bioware effects are done similarly to how qualities are done. You can't actually add bioware yet but you can see the dialogue for grade, rating etc.

We also splitted the character page into tabs to make it easier to see instead of having to scroll around. Feel free to explore the XMLs in Resources/Data.

Physical and stun boxes now working properly. Download link in Original Post.
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Surukai
post Feb 11 2010, 10:29 PM
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A little minor update, not posting a new Exe yet because it's been mostly stuff under the hood that has been fiddled with. Bioware is addable and has effects but I have found a slightly annoying design flaw where changing the character's race will "forget" about augmentations and changes to the stats. I'll need to fix that (probably by either removing all augmentations and qualities then readding them again but that sounds like more work than it is worth).
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Delarn
post Feb 12 2010, 12:11 AM
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Do a class that "Reset" the character while updating the whole thing again.
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Surukai
post Feb 12 2010, 06:54 AM
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I did sketch such a class to support reloading all classes into a character because you might also want to "reset and reapply" everything if the list XMLs have been updated so that is a good idea. I just paused the feature because it was a lot to implement >.<

Thanks for pointing it out, it was weeks since I wrote the IRevalidatable interface <.<
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Fireleaf
post Feb 19 2010, 10:03 AM
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QUOTE (Surukai @ Feb 3 2010, 05:47 PM) *
The program is written in C# (VS 2005), it would of course be possible to put it on a version control server of favourite type (SVN maybe) to let others help out but there might be a lot of work just describing the current design so it becomes easy for other developers to add to the code.

However, something that really needs assistance is ideas and monkey-work on entering stuff into XMLs. I've used Arphie so far but more paws on that would be awesome!


As I am not fond of languages that use pointers and a bunch of semicolons I'll work on data entry/conversion. Daisybox offered his data in the "Standardized character data" thread IIRC so I'll start generating schemas and data files from it.
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Surukai
post Feb 20 2010, 12:36 PM
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If it is of any use, here is the xsd for the data files used. You can autogenerate the classes representing this with xsd.exe in the vs bin directory.

[ Spoiler ]


Ignore "Class1", it snuck in there to be annoying <.<

Several classes are rather incomplete (i.e. gear, upgradable stuffs, cyberware etc.). I'll post updates once I'm there. Any thoughts, suggestions and ideas are warmly welcome (and will of course be properly credited!)
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