Astral vs. Physical, Using "Physical" spells from the Astral Options

[thepatriot]

Scenario #1: I am Astrally Projected. My teammate (not dual-natured, but with a familiar aura) is physical. I wish to use Physical Camouflage on this person.

Scenario #2: I am Astrally Projected. I wish to toss a Physical Barrier around my meat bod (or anything else for that matter) while I poke around the Astral.

Question: Can I do these things?

The theory is that physical things have a "shadow" in the Astral. Area affects such as Physical Barrier do not really need a "target" per se. If the target is just LOS, I should be able to use the astral impressions made by physical objects to cause an Area affect in the physical world. The same theory applies to an aura, which is inherently an Astral form (it does not manifest on the Physical, so it is an Astral form, even if it is not dual-natured). If I am sufficiently familiar with a teammate's aura, I should be able to use it as a target... just like using the astral shadows to LOS a physical barrier.

Your thoughts?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Scenario #1: I am Astrally Projected. My teammate (not dual-natured, but with a familiar aura) is physical. I wish to use Physical Camouflage on this person.

Scenario #2: I am Astrally Projected. I wish to toss a Physical Barrier around my meat bod (or anything else for that matter) while I poke around the Astral.

Question: Can I do these things?

The theory is that physical things have a "shadow" in the Astral. Area affects such as Physical Barrier do not really need a "target" per se. If the target is just LOS, I should be able to use the astral impressions made by physical objects to cause an Area affect in the physical world. The same theory applies to an aura, which is inherently an Astral form (it does not manifest on the Physical, so it is an Astral form, even if it is not dual-natured). If I am sufficiently familiar with a teammate's aura, I should be able to use it as a target... just like using the astral shadows to LOS a physical barrier.

Your thoughts?

No, it will not work... You cannot cast a Phsyical Spell in Astral Space... Only Mana Based spells will work...

Keep the Faith

[thepatriot]

I'm not casting a physical spell on Astral Space. I'm using an aura as a target for a physical spell while astrally projecting.

[Karoline]

I'm not casting a physical spell on Astral Space. I'm using an aura as a target for a physical spell while astrally projecting.

You cannot use an aura for a target from astral space.

If you are in astral space you cannot cast physical spells. Ever. Period. End of conversation. No, not even then. Nope, not then either. Keep trying all you want, it won't happen.

[BishopMcQ]

SR4A, p. 183 Spell Targeting -- A magician in Astral Space can only cast spells on targets that have an astral form. (Auras alone cannot be targeted)

[thepatriot]

So... even if I am using a mana-based spell (ie: Physical Camouflage), I cannot use it on someone who isn't dual-natured?

(...but I can if the target IS dual natured, such as a Physical Adept)

[BishopMcQ]

Correct. (The Physical Adept would only be dual natured, if they took the Astral Perception power and were using it actively.)

[NeoJudas]

aaahhhhh for the days of Grounding.....

[Falconer]

Physical camouflage is a physical spell I thought... (the physical version of the mana spell camouflage, just as improved invisibility is the physical version of invisibility). As such, no you cannot cast it while astral, only mana spells may be used on the astral. Here's where it gets wierd... The spell itself has an aura of it's own seperate from your own... so the 'camouflage' spell cast on the astral will yes help conceal you FROM ASTRAL OBSERVERS, but the spell itself will be blatantly obvious to any astral! The only way to get around this is to go through 2 initiations and obtain the masking, and extended masking powers. (and here masking already gives you the ability to hide and alter your auras appearance like an illusion... though not the special abilities of something like camouflage).

Edit: just looked... they're both listed as Mana in street magic... this strikes me as blatantly wrong as all other illusions are either mana and don't affect tech sensors or physical and do. This is probably an errata. Even though... even if it is mana... it still doesn't do anything more than camouflage on the astral. (tech sensors don't look into the astral, and an astral spell only exists on the astral and only affects astral viewers... who still see the spell itself).


"An astral target can only be affected by mana spells..."
Even though the adept in your example is dual natured... you as astral can only target his astral presence. So you are limited to mana spells only.


How to explain... even though spells are visible on the astral, their effects don't cross boundaries. It's like las vegas... what happens on the astral stays on the astral. (there's one wierd exceptions like mana static... it increases the background count of the area it is cast in by intentionally polluting the magical fabric). Even the wards section makes it clear, when the mana barrier spell is cast it's either on the physical or astral plane, not both. (while magical lodges/wards are dual natured and exist on both, however those aren't cast on the fly deals).

Another good example would be combat spells. You can't cast a fireball while astral no matter what. It's a physical spell, it doesn't matter if you have a dual natured anchor to cast it through. The fact you're trying to use a relatively harmless illusion doesn't change this.

Manaball though is a direct mana combat spell (as opposed to powerbolt which is a direct PHYSICAL combat spell, and the only one of them which can affect drones and non-living targets... it's drawback is it can't be used on the astral). Now, IF I am dual natured at the time of casting... I must choose. The spell is either on the astral or physical plane, not both. This actually can works in the mages favor... lets say a pack of spirits are attacking your allies... you can cast an AOE spell on the astral and only nail the dual natured spirits in the zone w/o touching your meat only physical friends.



Grounding out (which was the process of casting spells into 'reality' while astral) was taken out after 2nd edition for VERY GOOD CAUSE. A mage on the astral can choose to go or stay pretty much at whim, and there is generally nothing mundanes in meat can do about his spectral form. Under those old rules, said mage could materialize a spirit in the room, then use the spirit to ground out a fireball and wipe out all the targets in a room. Without putting himself in any significant danger. Or he could use the weapon focus the adept without astral perception activated unknowingly and use it to blow up the adept and his surroundings. Again w/ astral movement speeds and no gravity/wall limitations...

[Rystefn]

Yeah... The rules are pretty clear: you just can't cast across the planar barrier.

[Squinky]

You can get a great form guidance spirit with Astral gateway though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Rystefn]

You can get a great form guidance spirit with Astral gateway though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

...hilarity ensues.