Betaware/deltaware; how often do your PCs see it? Options

[MadDogMike]

Given the general expense of a lot of high end cyberware and the like, it seems like by the book PCs will be a long time gathering the kind of cash needed for the really good stuff (and contacts too, but really if you're making enough per job to afford deltaware Wired Reflexes (or God help you, synaptic booster) and the like you're good enough to get said contacts pretty much by being that good and living that long). Have your PCs ever made the upgrade to the true top-end gear? If so, was it in-game rewards, actually slapping down a pile of cash, or some other way they got it? Or have they never gone beyond standard/alpha levels of gear? Include other ridiculously expensive modifications like leonization if desired.

[Rystefn]

In our game, we saw some Delta-grade... It was several years of play-time into the game, after accidentally saving the world from bug spirits and being gang-pressed in a special black-ops division of the the UCAS military called "Gamma Teams," and around half a k worth of karma built up on each character. By then, we also had an attack helicopter, a LAV and a cargo plane in the group, as well as several laser weapons. Our next plan was taking over a small west African nation (Burkina Faso, if you're curious).

[ColdEquation]

See it? All the time, usually screaming toward them in the form of my latest batch of enemy shock troopers.

Actually GET? Well...that's a different story. Nobody in any of my games has ever gotten anything better than stock 'ware. Why? Because by the time they can afford the good stuff, they're either running full-bore along the essence tightrope or too high in initiation grade to risk losing any of their precious life force.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Given the general expense of a lot of high end cyberware and the like, it seems like by the book PCs will be a long time gathering the kind of cash needed for the really good stuff (and contacts too, but really if you're making enough per job to afford deltaware Wired Reflexes (or God help you, synaptic booster) and the like you're good enough to get said contacts pretty much by being that good and living that long).

Funny thing is, by RAW, there need to be no contacts involved getting access to a delta clinic. Sure, you can make them search, but that's just delegating.

And it really was about that pile of cash - delta is a premium product that needs selling. No point in spending all those tons of money on the best of the best to develop, build and implant that stuff, if you refuse to actually sell it to someone.

Actually GET? Well...that's a different story. Nobody in any of my games has ever gotten anything better than stock 'ware. Why? Because by the time they can afford the good stuff, they're either running full-bore along the essence tightrope or too high in initiation grade to risk losing any of their precious life force.

So nobody told them about essence hole rules?

[The Jake]

My PCs have access to a ghoul cybersurgeon that operates out of a high grade black clinic in Bellevue who can do up to betaware. They have heard of deltaware - but nobody they know of has it, let alone seen it in action. Some of the PCs have betaware implants but these are few and far between, usually things like cybereyes IIRC.

To paint a picture, they've completed the first story arc in Ghost Cartels so they are already well seasoned runners (we started at 450BP) and I would say some of the best in Seattle (but not the best). They definitely have a rep but they are not up there with Dodger, Ghost-Who-Walks, or anyone else on that scale.

- J.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Well... we are approaching the 300 Karma Point... and at least I have about half of my Cybersuite done in Beta Grade Cyberware... I am still trying to amass the nuyen to allow me to upgrade everything to Deltaware, but it is slow going... I may end up refitting the rest of my Alphaware to Beta before I actually get there though... I have several leads on the Delta Clinic (I am even pretty sure where it is located), but the clinic is stilll inaccessible to me due to finances...

Maybe if we can finally complete the "Big Score" we have been pursuing I will have the funds to finally purchase what I need...

Keep the Faith

[ColdEquation]

So nobody told them about essence hole rules?

I guess not...somebody ought to show them sometime, I suppose.


Sometime. I suppose.

[The Jake]

My players are limited by cash (although they still don't know of anyone with access to Deltaware). I also ascribe to Blackjack's Law of Money generally - which means I ensure they don't have infinite sums to spend it on (or it goes FAST!).

Yes I'm evil.

- J.

[Hagga]

Betaware semi-regularly - it turns up in most upper level corp grunts. Deltaware, sometimes. The last time they were dumb enough to pick a fight with the Red Samurai. That ended very well for them.

They're just like lemmings. I've started visualising gming as playing the old VGA game Lemmings. My self destruct tool is giving them high explosives. They're sure to dsetroy themselves.

[StealthSigma]

They're just like lemmings. I've started visualising gming as playing the old VGA game Lemmings. My self destruct tool is giving them high explosives. They're sure to dsetroy themselves.

And now I've visualized runners walking around and a 5 pops up over their heads... then it goes to 4, then 3, then 2, then 1, then they shake violently and explode into a shower of pixels.

[Doc Byte]

My charcter had the money and I've spend it on beta and (very few) delta ware. However I'm my own GM as I'm playing in no regular group. (mostly conventions)

[Ophis]

It happens... eventually. You upgrade when you're one of the big boys (300+ karma). I had one campaign (3rd) where the teams sniper spent months of play time saving to afford his delta upgrade and get 1(!) extra point of Reactions by fitting in more tech.

[wind_in_the_ston...]

My current character just made a big score and picked up several beta bioware items. Beta cyber is more common, since cyberware is already nuyen-cheap, and essence-expensive. I can't recall any of our group getting delta anything.

[Professor Evil O...]

Most of the players in my campaigns have eventually gotten a hold of custom cyber, mostly to allow for a higher rating at the same essence cost. There really hasn't been as much of a push to get high quality bio implants, other than for the awakened, since even max rating implants don't eat up that much essence/bio index.

I've found that availability, as opposed to cost, is usually the biggest restriction on custom chrome, especially if downtime between runs is limited to a few days or weeks. After a few small runs, or one big one, PCs can usually afford to get a cheap implant replaced at beta or even delta grade and can save a surprising amount of essence with custom sense ware and head ware - all those .1s ands .2s add up to really fast, especially if the player keeps upgrading every two or three runs. One player in my group actually sat down and worked out the nuyen cost per essence point for all his implants and has upgraded accordingly.

[The Jake]

Most of the players in my campaigns have eventually gotten a hold of custom cyber, mostly to allow for a higher rating at the same essence cost. There really hasn't been as much of a push to get high quality bio implants, other than for the awakened, since even max rating implants don't eat up that much essence/bio index.

I've found that availability, as opposed to cost, is usually the biggest restriction on custom chrome, especially if downtime between runs is limited to a few days or weeks. After a few small runs, or one big one, PCs can usually afford to get a cheap implant replaced at beta or even delta grade and can save a surprising amount of essence with custom sense ware and head ware - all those .1s ands .2s add up to really fast, especially if the player keeps upgrading every two or three runs. One player in my group actually sat down and worked out the nuyen cost per essence point for all his implants and has upgraded accordingly.

Comes back to the payout structure vs. how readily you grant out access to contacts with their own Deltaware clinic. The reverse is true in my game. Players make big cash but I make sure they don't get to blow it on permanent luxury lifestyles, etc. They keep getting hit with all sorts of expenses (e.g. NPC hackers, NPC riggers to complement their structure, etc).

Then again I'm going out of my way to keep them at the upper level of professional but definitely not demigod status yet.

- J.

[Platinum]

In our campaigns beta was rare, delta was so hard to get to. Both required campaigns to get into clinics. Only chars of 150 -200 karma got in. It was a matter of money and networking our contacts.

[Ascalaphus]

I'm reminded of Neuromancer.. the protagonist needs a medical procedure that sounds like Delta clinic work. Someone pays the shadow Beta clinic by showing them how to do it; the surgeon registers patents for these secret, cutting edge procedures and becomes an instant millionaire.


I think I'll admit the existence of shadow betaware clinics; deltaware is corp-only for me.

[Dumori]

I'm reminded of Neuromancer.. the protagonist needs a medical procedure that sounds like Delta clinic work. Someone pays the shadow Beta clinic by showing them how to do it; the surgeon registers patents for these secret, cutting edge procedures and becomes an instant millionaire.


I think I'll admit the existence of shadow betaware clinics; deltaware is corp-only for me.

The thing is sure you can get the delta datajack with the ease of finding the clinic and asking it legal if you got the nuyen they really wouldn't care much. Getting the Move by wires installed of any R or god forbid F implant is harder R if you got the cash and a licence that will pan otu same boat as a datajack now having a licence for an F implan that will have to be legal to pan out and even then you migt be in hot water same with and R but much much harder to pull off.

[Ascalaphus]

I think delta clinics would be so valuable, by the time you get access, F and R are meaningless. There's no such thing as "legal" or "illegal" access - these things aren't meant to have a paper trail.

[Dumori]

Delta is a product ti shoudl be made availiable too many such as those rich idiots that go more money better goods or mages wanting to cram in ware but not lose too much power. legal itesm woudl be relatively easy to get in delta harder than beta but still easy.

[Ascalaphus]

So what IS the availability on alpha/beta/delta anyway? The same multiplier as the nuyen cost?

[Dumori]

same as base cyber the clinics have avail delta is avail 24

[Professor Evil O...]

Custom cyber availability has changed a lot between editions...In the days of the Street Sam Catalog, alpha cyber was about as hard to get as delta is now, and beta was in the realm of not gonna happen. Under SR2, Cybertechnology made beta about as hard to get as alpha was in the SSCat, with delta taking betas place. And so on for SR3 and 4. Prices have also dropped for custom ware - alpha was originally x3, beta x7, and delta x10 (first rules in cybertech), they have since slowly dropped. Call it the tech curve if you want.

[ker'ion]

Well... we are approaching the 300 Karma Point... and at least I have about half of my Cybersuite done in Beta Grade Cyberware... I am still trying to amass the nuyen to allow me to upgrade everything to Deltaware, but it is slow going... I may end up refitting the rest of my Alphaware to Beta before I actually get there though... I have several leads on the Delta Clinic (I am even pretty sure where it is located), but the clinic is stilll inaccessible to me due to finances...

Maybe if we can finally complete the "Big Score" we have been pursuing I will have the funds to finally purchase what I need...

Keep the Faith

This is Shadowrun to the core. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

This is Shadowrun to the core. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Appreciate it.... Thanks ker'ion

Keep the Faith