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> What would the willpower of a fly be?, Magic and Bugs, not the way you think.
Frag-o Delux
post Feb 8 2004, 04:53 AM
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For some reason sitting here bored and with writters block I thought of a very wierd, possibly cool, useless and some may say ultimatly broken idea.

The whole thing hinges on what the Willpower of a common house fly would be. Ok say your mage needs to do some snooping and the rigger is out for the duration. You are sitting in a bar so going astral is not good. You spot a fly landing on your table, you hit it with Control Thoughts, then you hit it with Animal Sense (sight) and Animal Sense (hearing). I know that is a lot of magic, but if the Flys willpower is low that is not really a hard thing to do. I have a character with a Control Thoughts Foci, so that eliminates one +2 Tn# penalty. Now you have Mr. Flying Snoop into the back room with the party you wish to spy on. The FAQ says yo can use control thoughts on an animal and you only need LOS for the initial casting, but if you can't see him then you may not have him go where you wan thim to go. That is why I threw an ANimal Sense (Sight) on the fly so I can see where is going. Then I can also hear what he is listening to. Now if the fly has virtually no Willpower I can do these spells at Force 1 and not really have to worry about drain.

So what do you think? I just thought of it. Never seen anyone say anything about it.

I see some things bad about it now that I think about it. Do flys have ears? Clairvoyance and Clairesudience could do the same thing.

Any other combinations that might be benefical?
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Jason Farlander
post Feb 8 2004, 05:16 AM
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Well, a bat has a willpower of 1. I would imagine that an insect, with a vastly less complex brain, would not have more willpower than a bat. Furthermore, the bat has a strength of 0, providing a canon reference to the fact that animals can have 0 values for their attributes. I would say that its perfectly reasonable to say that a common housefly has a willpower of 0, but if you dont like that then certainly no higer than 1.

Its a nice idea. Clairaudience/clairvoyance seem like a better idea, since seeing through the fly's eyes would certainly be confusing, and their ability to hear is very, very limited.
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John Campbell
post Feb 8 2004, 05:40 AM
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Makes Manaball an effective method of pest extermination, too.

Hmm. Does Mana{bolt,ball} affect plants?
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Jason Farlander
post Feb 8 2004, 05:44 AM
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I would say yes, in that they are alive and have an aura on the astral.
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Zazen
post Feb 8 2004, 05:44 AM
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Most of the pests that we want dead are also ones that hide themselves quite well, so I don't think that manaball would be effective for pest control.

But plants, why not? I guess manabolt could be effective weed control with enough skill and patience :)
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FlakJacket
post Feb 8 2004, 05:49 AM
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What type of eye-sight/hearing capabilities does a fly have anyway?
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Jason Farlander
post Feb 8 2004, 06:16 AM
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QUOTE (FlakJacket)
What type of eye-sight/hearing capabilities does a fly have anyway?

Insects in general are rather bad at distinguishing shapes. Their eyesight is a composite of small images, most or all of which will be out of focus because they have no ability to change the focal points of their eyespots. What they are really good at seeing is motion, because any movement will register in a large number of eyespots. Houseflies, with their large compound eyes, have a 360 degree visual range.

Im not as clear about sound, but, basically, insects percieve sound by the pressure of the air that hits them. They dont have anything like an ear canal, so I dont think they cant really distinguish different frequencies very well. They can distinguish different amplitudes, though, by the amount of pressure. I would imagine that trying to use animal sense (hearing) on a fly would feel like you were being buffeted by wind or something similar.
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Sunday_Gamer
post Feb 8 2004, 06:23 AM
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Using the same logic, should a mage not be able to turn himself into a fly with shapechange? Not sure I'd feel safe as a fly, I almost got smoked last week as a rat... who knew that drone was gonna blow up?!?

Kong
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snowRaven
post Feb 8 2004, 01:52 PM
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As Mr.Farlander said, flies have facet eyes giving them almost 360 degree vision. They see movement, and they also see in the ultraviolet spectrum (that's how they find food - they are attracted to things which reflect (or give off) ultraviolet light). Focusing on anything is out, and I believe most levels of recognition by sight are out too. I don't know about hearing, but I believe that sense is completely out (at least as far as Animal Sense Hearing goes) - from Mr. Farlander's description and my limited knowledge I'd say you only get to 'hear' if you take Animal Sense Touch from a fly, or maybe even a special sense like 'Sound Sense' or something... In either case I think recognizing any speech goes right out the window.

I would definately give flies (and most other insects) a willpower of 1 at most) because they really don't have much in the way of cognitive thinking and sense of self, and hence no 'will' per se. For the same reason, I cannot see a Control Thoughts sell working on a fly; they have no 'thoughts'. In fact, I'd go so far as to say a Control Thoughts spell is useless against any non-sentient being - partly because the magician cannot being to comprehend how to 'think' so that an animal will understand (I might allow it for shapeshifters, which are more 'in-tune' with the animal world). However, there are some excellent spells like Control Animal, Control Pack and Control Actions. Control Actions should work on any living thing, although the mage may have a hard time getting used to controlling the body of a fly. For most cases, since there is an actual spell for it, I'd make the magician stick to Control Animal, or maybe even 'force' him to learn a new spell - Control Insect (there are, after all, vast differences between animals and insects; more so than between animals and humans and you can't control a human with a Control Animals spell)

Canon-wise, the awakened insects that exist have Willpower 3(Ghede fly, Jauchekafer, Wyrd Mantis) or 2(Siberian Bee) and the same goes for most arachnids (except Nova Scorpions, which have 5) so I would definately not give a non-awakened insect a higher willpower than 2.

Basically, the following stats seem to be approperiate for most mundane insects:
B 0, Q 5 x 2, S 0, C -, I 1/3, W 1, E 6, R 5
INIT: 5 + 2D6, Attacks: varies, mostly they're out of luck...
Quickness multiplier 5 for flying.
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FlakJacket
post Feb 9 2004, 01:32 AM
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QUOTE (Sunday_Gamer)
Using the same logic, should a mage not be able to turn himself into a fly with shapechange?

Isn't there a limit to how much you can change, based on the differing body ratings? It's been a while since I played my last shaman.
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Herald of Verjig...
post Feb 9 2004, 01:40 AM
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QUOTE (snowRaven)
Attacks: varies, mostly they're out of luck...

There are plenty of species whose poison is strong enough to affect a human with one injection. A few have strong enough poison to kill most humans in one dose, but most wouldn't go beyond a moderate wound (unless an allergy applies).
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snowRaven
post Feb 9 2004, 09:34 PM
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QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm)
QUOTE (snowRaven @ Feb 8 2004, 08:52 AM)
Attacks: varies, mostly they're out of luck...

There are plenty of species whose poison is strong enough to affect a human with one injection. A few have strong enough poison to kill most humans in one dose, but most wouldn't go beyond a moderate wound (unless an allergy applies).

That is completely true, but only a few of the insects would have any physical attack worthy of a damage code. Quite a few would have the equivalent of the 'Venom' power; some would have the equivalent of the 'Pestilence' power.

In regards to a mage shapechanging to a fly...I personally would not allow it. Partly because a Fly is an insect (I know, the spell description says 'critter', but I think insects are just too different) and partly because I'd be wary of anyone shapechanging into a critter with a Body of less than 1. The threshold of the spell is equal to half the target's body plus the difference in body ratings. It seems easy enough to state that the difference between 1 and 0 is 1, but that also opens up for shapechanging into a virus or something... I think most insects are just too small and too different for it to be feasible. But hey...it's magic! Who knows?

(and it's an easy way to get rid of a mage... "a fly in on the wall you said? Roll reaction... Failed? Sorry dude the guy hits you with the rolled up newspaper. You died. What do you mean roll Body - you have no Body!!!") :grinbig:
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