I have got to take Krav Maga, Am I reading this right? |
I have got to take Krav Maga, Am I reading this right? |
Feb 5 2010, 04:38 AM
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#1
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 186 Joined: 14-May 05 From: Riverside CA Member No.: 7,394 |
Krav Maga
Advantages: Take Aim becomes a Free Action. Sooooo... Two Aimed Shots at one Target. •Spend your first Simple Action to Aim •Take your Aimed Shot •Take your Free Action to Aim once more. •Take your Second Shot. |
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Feb 5 2010, 04:39 AM
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#2
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
Krav Maga Which is... three Simple Actions and one Free Action in a single pass?
Advantages: Take Aim becomes a Free Action. Sooooo... Two Aimed Shots at one Target. •Spend your first Simple Action to Aim •Take your Aimed Shot •Take your Free Action to Aim once more. •Take your Second Shot. |
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Feb 5 2010, 04:41 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 186 Joined: 14-May 05 From: Riverside CA Member No.: 7,394 |
You can fire a Semi-Automatic Weapon twice in One Simple Action and a Free Action can be taken at any time IIRC
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Feb 5 2010, 04:42 AM
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#4
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,587 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Berkeley, CA Member No.: 7,014 |
You can fire a Semi-Automatic Weapon twice in One Simple Action and a Free Action can be taken at any time IIRC Each shot takes a Simple Action, and you have two Take Aim actions there. I suppose it's Two Simple Actions and Two Free Actions, but you are still using too many actions.EDIT: p 153, SR4A: "SEMI-AUTOMATIC MODE Guns that fire in semi-automatic mode can be fired twice in the same Action Phase. Each shot requires a Simple Action and a separate attack test. The first shot is unmodified; the second shot, if fired in that same Action Phase, takes a –1 recoil dice pool modifier. Recoil compensation can cancel out this modifier." This has been true in all Shadowrun editions, as far as I know. |
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Feb 5 2010, 04:49 AM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 186 Joined: 14-May 05 From: Riverside CA Member No.: 7,394 |
Each shot takes a Simple Action, and you have two Take Aim actions there. I suppose it's Two Simple Actions and Two Free Actions, but you are still using too many actions. EDIT: p 153, SR4A: "SEMI-AUTOMATIC MODE Guns that fire in semi-automatic mode can be fired twice in the same Action Phase. Each shot requires a Simple Action and a separate attack test. The first shot is unmodified; the second shot, if fired in that same Action Phase, takes a –1 recoil dice pool modifier. Recoil compensation can cancel out this modifier." I guess you are right, I still thinking about a Gunfighter Adept that that I created for someone wileding Two weapon with the SA and # of shots per action. My Bad (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarrassed.gif) Either to much or To little Coffee. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) |
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Feb 5 2010, 04:52 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 604 Joined: 1-December 08 From: Sacramento, California Member No.: 16,646 |
If you have more than 1 initiative pass what you can do is this:
IP 1 Take Aim (Free) Fire (Simple) Take Aim (Simple) IP 2 Fire (Simple, with Aim from last IP) Take Aim (Free) Fire (Simple). An adept with Nimble Fingers and a Smartlink can do something similar IP 1 Fire (Simple) Fire (Simple) Drop Clip (Free due to Smartlink) IP 2 Reload Pistol (Free due to Nimble Fingers) Fire (Simple) Fire (Simple) Sometimes the beauty of turning some simple actions into free actions is most noticeable when you think in terms of multiple IP. In the above examples, you can get 3 aimed shots in 2 IP, or 4 non-aimed shots while changing a clip over 2 IP; handy and helpful, but not "required." Besides, many of the martial arts are nice. I suggest picking based on what best fits the character concept. |
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Feb 5 2010, 07:25 AM
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#7
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,575 Joined: 5-February 10 Member No.: 18,115 |
Here's another neat trick.
"An extra Free Action may be taken in place of a Simple Action (so the character would get two Free Actions and one Simple action, or three Free Actions, instead of one Free and two Simple Actions)." <SR4, p.136> This means Krav Maga makes it possible to Take Aim three times per IP, which is another excellent efficiency boost. Of course, do remember that... "The maximum number of sequential Take Aim actions a character may take is equal to one half the character’s skill with that weapon, rounded down." <SR4, p.137> ~Umidori This post has been edited by Umidori: Feb 5 2010, 07:38 AM |
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Feb 5 2010, 08:06 AM
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#8
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Runner Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,946 Joined: 1-June 09 From: Omaha Member No.: 17,234 |
Yes, Jew-fu is pretty amazing.
I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would ever take gun ka....i mean fire fight in a world where Krav mage exists. |
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Feb 5 2010, 10:53 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 386 Joined: 28-November 08 From: Germany Member No.: 16,638 |
Krav Maga is the best style by a very large margin, simply because of that bonus. "Take Aim as a free action" is basically identical to "+1 die to all offensive actions", (which, incidentally, is the same as +1 damage) which is already better than most other styles.
Add that to the fact that Krav Maga works for ranged combat and you can now "Take Aim" a whole lot in a single IP for hefty dice pool bonuses and there's no reason to every take any other style over it, which sadly kills diversity. |
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Feb 5 2010, 10:59 AM
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#10
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Forget about the bonus dice of Take Aim. It allows you to use Image Magnification, which eliminates range penalties that are a lot bigger.
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Feb 5 2010, 01:18 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 186 Joined: 4-May 08 From: Brazil Member No.: 15,955 |
i thought you could only do one free action per IP.
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Feb 5 2010, 01:33 PM
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#12
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 15-December 09 Member No.: 17,968 |
"Take Aim as a free action" is basically identical to "+1 die to all offensive actions", (which, incidentally, is the same as +1 damage) It's only the same as +1 damage if that bonus die hits, so it's really only +1/3 damage. There is also the added bonus of a reduced glitch probability (though that's mostly applicable to low DPs). This is all based on the assumption that the character has nothing better to do with his free action. For most groups (especially in a raging firefight) this will be true, but free actions have many uses that players may take for granted like speaking, running and sending commands to your smartgun. |
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Feb 5 2010, 01:42 PM
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#13
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,536 Joined: 13-July 09 Member No.: 17,389 |
i thought you could only do one free action per IP. You get either... 1 Free Action + 2 Simple Actions 1 Free Action + 1 Complex Action Simple Actions can be used as a Free Action. No matter what, you can only take 3 actions per IP at best. Meaning you could take 3 free actions. Assuming you are attempting to attack every round, this allows you to do.... FA- Take Aim SA- Take Aim SA- Shoot However, unless you actually need +2 from take aim to hit the target reliably, the best benefit from Krav Maga is likely... FA- Take Aim SA- Shoot SA- Shoot For 1 IP or the last IP when you have odd numbers of IPs -or- FA- Take Aim SA- Shoot SA- Take Aim SA- Shoot FA- Take Aim SA- Shoot For even numbers of IPs. The other, perhaps unmentioned thing, is that with a Free Action take aim, you could do the following unless the rules strictly prohibit it. FA- Take Aim CA- Long Burst/Full Auto |
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Feb 5 2010, 02:35 PM
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#14
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 10,289 Joined: 2-October 08 Member No.: 16,392 |
My drake gun adept had Krav Maga. I abused the hell out of it too, well sorta. I still only had 13 and 12 dice to each shot, of course, so the free action was much appreciated. I also had dual clips in my P93, so I could switch ammo types pretty much at will (and I never once changed a clip,* not with 60 rounds in each one and never fired anything but short bursts and tended to only get in a coupler per combat--I spent more time strategically using cover and letting my teammates get shot at).
*Actually, I did finally change near the end of that game, where I took out ~15 rounds from one clip and filled back up to 60 during downtime. |
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Feb 6 2010, 03:09 AM
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#15
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,705 Joined: 5-October 09 From: You are in a clearing Member No.: 17,722 |
I prefer Wildcat's +1 die when calling shot to increase Damage.
Makes a Take Aim action turn into at least 1 more guaranteed hurtbox. |
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Feb 6 2010, 05:13 AM
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#16
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,542 Joined: 30-September 08 From: D/FW Megaplex Member No.: 16,387 |
WARNING: LINKS MAY NOT BE APPROPRIATE FOR MINORS!
Yes, you need to take krav maga. EDIT: And personally, I prefer the Ready weapon as a free action bonus available. It will speed up archery or throwing attacks about 50%. |
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Feb 6 2010, 05:45 AM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 992 Joined: 2-August 06 Member No.: 9,006 |
WARNING: LINKS MAY NOT BE APPROPRIATE FOR MINORS! Yes, you need to take krav maga. EDIT: And personally, I prefer the Ready weapon as a free action bonus available. It will speed up archery or throwing attacks about 50%. *looks at the video* So....you really think subdue and/or runaway is why one should take it? Those were not finished fights...the guys they subdued will just be out on a technicality, and then come for the people that beat them up. Or are you saying people need to take Krav Maga because most thugs are going to be stupid? |
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Feb 6 2010, 05:48 AM
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#18
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
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Feb 6 2010, 06:10 AM
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#19
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Runner Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,946 Joined: 1-June 09 From: Omaha Member No.: 17,234 |
Oh boy oh boy oh boy, this might become a real world martial arts thread. I've got my tranq rifle and my tracking collars ready, can finally complete that paper i wanted to do on the habits and migration patterns on internet tough guys.
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Feb 6 2010, 06:13 AM
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#20
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Runner Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,946 Joined: 1-June 09 From: Omaha Member No.: 17,234 |
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Feb 6 2010, 07:10 AM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 129 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 400 |
I have a semi-related question. Does adept centering require a free action like regular centering? The text doesn't mention it, but it seems to be a variant of regular centering. If it doesn't take an action you could, you could double your cheese factor. Center for range/visual/wound penalties, then aim for +1 die, that sort of thing.
Thoughts? |
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Feb 6 2010, 09:47 PM
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#22
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Oh boy oh boy oh boy, this might become a real world martial arts thread. I've got my tranq rifle and my tracking collars ready, can finally complete that paper i wanted to do on the habits and migration patterns on internet tough guys. Seriously? I didn't think anyone took Krav seriously anymore. Whatever merit it may have had as a pretty straightforward and conventional military hand to hand combat cirriculum has since been utterly teabagged by soulless marketing and commercialism in the United States. The fact that you can now buy a Krav Maga sports bra pretty much says it all. |
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Feb 6 2010, 09:49 PM
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#23
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
Seriously? I didn't think anyone took Krav seriously anymore. Whatever merit it may have had as a pretty straightforward and conventional military hand to hand combat cirriculum has since been utterly teabagged by soulless marketing and commercialism in the United States. The fact that you can now buy a Krav Maga sports bra pretty much says it all. Commercialization does not invalidate the effectiveness of the Martial Art though... Keep the Faith |
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Feb 7 2010, 04:41 PM
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#24
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Neophyte Runner Group: Validating Posts: 2,283 Joined: 12-October 07 Member No.: 13,662 |
Glancing through here... Biggest problem.
1. way too many actions, you can only do 3 things per combat pass. You're always limited in combat to 1 free & 2 simple, or 1 free & 1 complex. 2. You can substitute a free action for a simple action. 3. Multi-tasking gives you 2 free actions, but only out of combat. I disagree a bit on the availability of free actions. I find myself always running out of actions. And take aim IMO is outdone by called shot (already a free action). Though I disagree on the use of a free action, especially for an adept. A free action for an adept is adept-centering, ignoring dice penalties equal to your initiate grade. Especially for the dual wielding pistol adept above. Given the choice of firing twice and taking aim, called shot, adept centering... or numerous other free actions (such as communicating w/ your teammates!!!). Take aim is pretty far down that list... (barring the case of scoped combat! where first take aim uses the scope). |
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Feb 7 2010, 05:01 PM
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#25
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Any martial art video you find on Youtube is going to make that martial art look like the best thing ever, because top instructors (and the occasional token woman) are going to beat all kinds of Hell out of obligingly slow thugs in five-and-six move combos, often accompanied by exciting music.
There's nothing wrong with Krav as a basic martial art that will teach you how to react to stressful situations, take a hit, get your fitness level up, and will show you a small sampling of very simple, very effective, strikes. If you train hard in Krav, you'll get just as much from it as if you train hard in anything else. That said, it's YOU that counts, not the martial art. You won't get anything from Krav -- unlike in-game -- that you can't get at any other reputable school, if you put in the time. It's not a magical school of automatic win, it's not a worthless school of automatic lose. It comes down to how much work you put in, how seriously you take it, and the quality of instructor more than anything else. Which, of course, isn't easily quantifiable in an RPG, so instead martial arts all grant you cool special abilities you couldn't get other places, or augment the cool special abilities you've already got from magic or cyber, etc, etc, which tends to differentiate between the various arts to an unnecessary degree. Real life Krav Maga (or the genuine martial arts that work hard on integrating pistols into close-combat) don't magically teach you to draw and aim and fire any faster...YOU do that yourself. The simple fact is most martial arts have a lot more things in common than things that set them apart from one another. The human body only works in so many ways, and every martial art in the world has designed itself to work along those lines -- your leg swings this way, your arm moves this way, your body can take damage here but not here so you block this way -- in order to make us more efficient at combat. Everyone wants their style to be the best, but it's the artist, not the art, that really makes the difference. |
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