Militaries in the Shadowrun World Options

[KnightVeritas]

I've picked up the 4th Edition Shadowrun core book, as well as the Runner's Companion, Augmentation, and Arsenal, and while I love the information that has been provided on the world of Shadowrun, I haven't found a whole lot of info on non-corporate military groups, especially specialty or elite groups. If I were to, say, create an elven character born or turned in the earliest UGE expressions (2011, was it?), would there be a particular military group suitable for an elf who enlisted? Are the old US special forces groups still active in the UCAS and CAS? What kind of elite forces might the NAN have, or Tir Tairngire? Are there books from previous editions that have this kind of information, and if so, where might I find them? Thanks for any information you can provide.

[Professor Evil O...]

There is a limited amount of information about the 6th world armed forces in the various "Shadows of" books for SR3. The information is pretty much limited to special forces groups. Most of the present day special forces groups are still active under there original names in both the CAS and UCAS. For the NAN, each nation has its own group, the most famous being the Sioux Wildcats, though the Salish Rangers might be interesting for a Seattle game, as they are local. Both Tirs have their own groups - Tir T has the Ghosts (who work for the government) and also paladins, which serve individual nobles but aren't really the military; Tir NN has the TRC (Tir Republican Corp) and the Garda who both contain special ops groups, both Tir NN groups contain followers of the Northern Way if you are interested in unusual magic. If you want to track down REALLY old books you can try to find the original Native American Nations Books (there were 2) or the individual Tir books (again 2). Most (if not all) of these books are available as PDFs, though hard copies can be hard to come by.

As for character options - keep in mind that pretty much every type of warfare is conducted by 6th world armed forces - so characters with magical, rigging, and even hacking skills are not unreasonable for a military background. Be sure to take a few ranks in appropriate backgrounds along with some stealth, athletics, and firearms skills. Special forces soldiers who enter the shadows have the advantage that they are already used to similar types of jobs, and may have mercenary and criminal contacts from working black ops.

Hope that helps.

[Method]

First, welcome to Dumpshock!

Second, Professor Evil Overlord has covered most of the basics. There is a good discussion on the various special forces in this thread. This recent thread has a nice discussion on 6th World military composition. There are many others as well. Check out the link in my sig for tips on how I found these (the search engine is not very user friendly).

Third (and most excitingly) the Catalyst crew are working on a forthcoming source book tentatively called "War" which will update and expand on the information available on 6th World militaries. There might be some tidbits in the forthcoming "Sixth World Almanac" as well.

[TBRMInsanity]

I think in the past why SR never really touched the military was because, the average shadowrunner would be slaughtered when facing a military unit. It can be assumed any military unit is better funded, equipped, and trained then your character will ever be.

[Doc Byte]

I think in the past why SR never really touched the military was because, the average shadowrunner would be slaughtered when facing a military unit. It can be assumed any military unit is better funded, equipped, and trained then your character will ever be.

In 2008 Italy's military was deployed for fighting the mafia in Naples. Pretty silly idea if you ask me.

[PBTHHHHT]

In 2008 Italy's military was deployed for fighting the mafia in Naples. Pretty silly idea if you ask me.

In the past few years, Mexico's military have/are deployed for fighting the drug cartels all throughout Mexico and even then...

[TBRMInsanity]

In the past few years, Mexico's military have/are deployed for fighting the drug cartels all throughout Mexico and even then...

They have had an impact. You may not see it directly in Mexico, but here in Canada, drug gangs in BC have had their suppliers cut off and as a result they are at each other's necks for whatever is left. It is turning into a major problem for Canada to stop the violence from spreading to the rest of the population.

You never really understand the impact of the drug war around the world till you shut down major portions of it.

[hobgoblin]

I think in the past why SR never really touched the military was because, the average shadowrunner would be slaughtered when facing a military unit. It can be assumed any military unit is better funded, equipped, and trained then your character will ever be.

there have been some writing about mercenary activity tho, the latest being sota63.

and there may be a military focused book in the works.

but in general the large standing armies have been dismantled. Or thats at least my impression so far.

[MYST1C]

If I were to, say, create an elven character born or turned in the earliest UGE expressions (2011, was it?), would there be a particular military group suitable for an elf who enlisted?

Elves (and dwarves) do not goblinize! You are either born one or not.

[TBRMInsanity]

there have been some writing about mercenary activity tho, the latest being sota63.

and there may be a military focused book in the works.

but in general the large standing armies have been dismantled. Or thats at least my impression so far.

Where did you get that impression? I would say the reverse has happened. Countries around the world are turtling trying to protect their sovereignty with physical, technological, and magical defences. Heck war has picked up around the world now that nukes are effectively de-funked. Now the only way to take over your neighbour is to invade with a new type of combined arms (tanks, troops, mages, drones, and coordinated matrix attacks).

[Stry]

I think some one forgot to mention the Aztlan's Jaguars.

I think all major nations with militaries and some large mercenary companies would have would have their own spec-ops forces even it is not mentioned in the books. Stats for most spec-ops types would have ratings equal to Tir ghosts or red samurai, depending on the nation they may favor a lot of cyberware, implants, adapts, magic, and/or some combination.

If you have the Cooperate Punishment book they have a squad of TT ghosts in there so you can figure out how they would be put together.

[hobgoblin]

Where did you get that impression? I would say the reverse has happened. Countries around the world are turtling trying to protect their sovereignty with physical, technological, and magical defences. Heck war has picked up around the world now that nukes are effectively de-funked. Now the only way to take over your neighbour is to invade with a new type of combined arms (tanks, troops, mages, drones, and coordinated matrix attacks).

real life or SR? i was talking very much SR, where about the only nations fielding armies are where big corp and government is basically joined at the hip (imperial japan, aztelan).

for real life, i say all bets are off.

[LivingOxymoron]

real life or SR? i was talking very much SR, where about the only nations fielding armies are where big corp and government is basically joined at the hip (imperial japan, aztelan).

for real life, i say all bets are off.

The Sioux Nation has been depicted as being a universal conscription nation similar to Israel, so expect them to still have a large standing army, backed up by the ability to mobilize every able bodied man and woman into the reserves.

The UCAS seems to still have a large standing Army, though they are supported by Ares (though not as much as Japan or Aztlan). The CAS, by all accounts, probably has a higher percentage of men and women under arms than the UCAS by virtue of their hostile border with Aztlan. Additionally, they are depicted as having the single largest sub fleet in the world, and are probably the only group on earth with submersible aircraft carriers. The PCC's military is probably pretty robust, given the fact that the Army and Police are part of the same domestic organization (the PCC doesn't have 3rd party law enforcement), their large border with Aztlan, and the amount of territory they've swallowed up in the last 15 years of game time.

[hobgoblin]

seems i have not payed enough attention then. Thanks for bringing me up to speed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[TBRMInsanity]

It is foolish to think that any country would not protect itself when there are both perceived and real threats all around them. The only nations in the 6th world that I can see not having national militarises would be nations that are 100% corporate owned (the Allied German States come to mind). Some city states may also contract their militarises to corporations or some other paramilitary group, and this would be one of the main reasons war corps would engage in Desert Wars (among testing new equipment).

[PBTHHHHT]

They have had an impact. You may not see it directly in Mexico, but here in Canada, drug gangs in BC have had their suppliers cut off and as a result they are at each other's necks for whatever is left. It is turning into a major problem for Canada to stop the violence from spreading to the rest of the population.

You never really understand the impact of the drug war around the world till you shut down major portions of it.

But we're talking about Mexico, the situation is still unstable with lots of bodies turning up. They've hit and taken some cartel groups and others move in. The one cartel who was taken out by the Mexican Marines, one of the marines who died, after his funeral, his mother and some other relatives get gunned down. It's a vicious fight down there even after the military has been called in. Plus, my post was in response to doc byte's post about the silliness to call in the military for the mob in Naples. I don't think it's silly and it was probably needed.

[KnightVeritas]

There is a limited amount of information about the 6th world armed forces in the various "Shadows of" books for SR3. The information is pretty much limited to special forces groups. Most of the present day special forces groups are still active under there original names in both the CAS and UCAS. For the NAN, each nation has its own group, the most famous being the Sioux Wildcats, though the Salish Rangers might be interesting for a Seattle game, as they are local. Both Tirs have their own groups - Tir T has the Ghosts (who work for the government) and also paladins, which serve individual nobles but aren't really the military; Tir NN has the TRC (Tir Republican Corp) and the Garda who both contain special ops groups, both Tir NN groups contain followers of the Northern Way if you are interested in unusual magic. If you want to track down REALLY old books you can try to find the original Native American Nations Books (there were 2) or the individual Tir books (again 2). Most (if not all) of these books are available as PDFs, though hard copies can be hard to come by.

As for character options - keep in mind that pretty much every type of warfare is conducted by 6th world armed forces - so characters with magical, rigging, and even hacking skills are not unreasonable for a military background. Be sure to take a few ranks in appropriate backgrounds along with some stealth, athletics, and firearms skills. Special forces soldiers who enter the shadows have the advantage that they are already used to similar types of jobs, and may have mercenary and criminal contacts from working black ops.

Hope that helps.

It does indeed help, thanks! What books in specific might have information on the Tir Ghosts and Paladins, the Sioux Wildcats, or the Salish Rangers? Do they have any particular specialties, abilities, or signature weapons that they are known for? I'm really just trying to build a background for a character, sot looking to start a discussion over whether militaries have comparatively grown or shrunk in the Sixth World. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Professor Evil O...]

Shadows of North America covers all of those groups as well as their respective nations, it is out of print but the PDF is available. The very out of print Native American Nations Vol 1 covers the Sioux and Salish nations, and has some stats in but they are for SR1 and not easy to adapt/convert, I'm not aware of it being available as a PDF. Tir Tairngire: The Land of Promise talks about the Ghosts and paladins but has no game stats, it is out of print but the PDF is available. Of those, I'd say Shadows is the most useful, the other books are very dated, and in the case of the Native American Nations have been partly retconned. Stats on Tir Ghosts are in SR4A to give you an idea of what they would look like, but again individuals will vary greatly. If you decide to go with the Tir, keep in mind that the government was overthrown between the time of Shadows and the current SR4A date, which can be a good way to explain why your PC is running the shadows (the rebels won IIRC).

[Professor Evil O...]

Sorry to double post but I had to find my old books...

*Blows dust off of some VERY old and some not so old source books*

It looks like your best bet by far is going to be Shadows. It covers each of the countries you are interested in and covers all of the relevant military units. The only thing it doesn't mention is that the Rangers are or at least were considered just a step down from the Wildcats, or at least they were in the early 2050s. Shadows actually has more information than the original sources, and its recent enough you could get a print copy if you really wanted one. The section on the Ghosts is under the Paladins section in the Tir writeup.

It doesn't specify specific weapon load outs, but real world special forces tend to use whatever they need for a specific mission. I'd say you should have at least a minimal ability in a couple of vehicles, demolitions, outdoor skills, throwing, stealth, athletics, HTH combat (both armed and unarmed), and a variety of firearms. Take high levels in whatever skills were your specialty. Take some military knowledge skills as well. Real world special forces cross train in all of their squad mate's skills, so feel free to take a wide variety of skills outside your specialty. Both the Wildcats and the Ghosts are specifically mentioned as including lots of the awakened in their forces, if magic is your thing, though that isn't to say the Rangers don't have awakened members.

All three countries have recently had some upheavals and had conflicts with their neighbors or within their own borders. This is great fodder for PC background and is a great way to justify things like enemies, restricted equipment, contacts, and the like. Don't forget that your PC could know people on both sides of the conflict, weather they are friend or foe. Be sure to determine the nature of your separation from your government. Were you framed for a crime, A-team style? Were you kicked out after you killed an insane officer? Or are you still working for them as a mole in the shadow community? Did you leave at the end of your tour of duty and decide to become a merc? Pick qualities to match.

An elven Ghost is easy enough to justify, since that's pretty much all they'll take. The Salish have an entire tribe of elves called the Sinsearach (the Salish tends to have tribes along meta type), which are in minority in the Rangers, but are represented. The Sioux Wildcats aren't picky about racial type.

If your GM is into the immortal elf meta plot, being a Ghost or Paladin loyal to a particular noble can be an easy way to kick start its inclusion in the campaign. Ditto for a Sinsearach elf, as many of its members split off to form the Tir in the first place (with members on both sides still pretty bitter about it). Either way, an appropriate contact should work its way into your background.

Hope that is useful.

[MYST1C]

The only nations in the 6th world that I can see not having national militarises would be nations that are 100% corporate owned (the Allied German States come to mind).

Actually, the good old Bundeswehr still exists in the SR days! It's a well-trained and -equipped force of 250,000 men and women that transformed from conscription-based to all-volunteer in the early 2060s.
In addition, every AGS member state has the right to maintain a State Militia (weekend warriors with outdated equipment) limited in size to 1/1000th of the respective population - some states have their militia at full capacity, others have none at all, most are somewhere in between.

On top of that comes the army-for-hire MET2000 that has to keep 40% of their forces ready for use by the AGS government at all times.

(All information as of 2062.)

[TBRMInsanity]

But we're talking about Mexico, the situation is still unstable with lots of bodies turning up. They've hit and taken some cartel groups and others move in. The one cartel who was taken out by the Mexican Marines, one of the marines who died, after his funeral, his mother and some other relatives get gunned down. It's a vicious fight down there even after the military has been called in. Plus, my post was in response to doc byte's post about the silliness to call in the military for the mob in Naples. I don't think it's silly and it was probably needed.

On that point I fully agree with you.