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> The death penalty in Shadowrun
Penta
post Feb 6 2010, 01:34 AM
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Quick, stupid question:

Does the UCAS have the death penalty?

Has that even been stated anywhere, either way?
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Karoline
post Feb 6 2010, 01:37 AM
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QUOTE (Penta @ Feb 5 2010, 08:34 PM) *
Quick, stupid question:

Does the UCAS have the death penalty?

Has that even been stated anywhere, either way?


Given that the UCAS has (As far as I can tell) basically the old USA constitution and everything else, I'd say that they would have it, but they'd likely make fairly rare use of it.
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nezumi
post Feb 6 2010, 01:39 AM
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Why not? Death penalty is legal under the constitution, and it's awfully cheap when you don't have to worry about all that fair trial stuff.
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Karoline
post Feb 6 2010, 01:41 AM
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QUOTE (nezumi @ Feb 5 2010, 08:39 PM) *
Why not? Death penalty is legal under the constitution, and it's awfully cheap when you don't have to worry about all that fair trial stuff.


Well, you do have to worry about all that fair trial stuff, which is the problem and why it is rarely used. You have to jump alot of extra hoops to get a death sentence conviction over a life imprisonment. Now UCAS could have upturned plenty of the laws that make this the case, but my understanding has always been that UCAS basically kept all the old laws as well, which means that death penalty would still be a pain.

And actually death penalty is way more expensive than regular prison because death row inmates get tons of special concessions and everything.
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Muspellsheimr
post Feb 6 2010, 01:48 AM
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I think he was referring to those lacking a System Identification Number. But still, for those who do have a SIN, you are correct - to much legal jargon to make any significant use of it.
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Karoline
post Feb 6 2010, 01:56 AM
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QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Feb 5 2010, 08:48 PM) *
I think he was referring to those lacking a System Identification Number. But still, for those who do have a SIN, you are correct - to much legal jargon to make any significant use of it.


Oh, yeah, for SINless they resisted arrest and had to be shot.
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Penta
post Feb 6 2010, 02:00 AM
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I was actually asking for those who had SINs.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Karoline
post Feb 6 2010, 02:07 AM
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QUOTE (Penta @ Feb 5 2010, 09:00 PM) *
I was actually asking for those who had SINs.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


Which is why I answered along SINner lines (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

It can happen but will be rare.
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nezumi
post Feb 6 2010, 03:29 AM
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QUOTE (Karoline @ Feb 5 2010, 08:41 PM) *
Well, you do have to worry about all that fair trial stuff, which is the problem and why it is rarely used. You have to jump alot of extra hoops to get a death sentence conviction over a life imprisonment. Now UCAS could have upturned plenty of the laws that make this the case, but my understanding has always been that UCAS basically kept all the old laws as well, which means that death penalty would still be a pain.


I am in fact referring to SINners. While you assume that the laws all more or less match the current laws, I assume this is a dystopia so given two reasonable options, you choose the worst one.

Pick which general philosophy you run by and use it.

(I'm pretty sure it will be common in the CAS because, while the CAS sticks closer to the US Constitution than the UCAS did, it also stuck closer to the laws and practics of the south, which has plenty of executions to go around.)
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TheOOB
post Feb 6 2010, 03:58 AM
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I imagine the death penalty still exists, but how much it is used varies greatly by area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punis...e_United_States

The number of executions performed varies widely by state(texas having over 4 times as much as the next highest state, Virginia, and over a hundred times that of my home state. While the lines and who does a lot of who doesn't may have changed, the general rule is that rural areas tend to exercise the death penalty far more often than urban areas.
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KarmaInferno
post Feb 6 2010, 04:39 AM
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A dead prisoner is a prisoner that isn't making money for the privately-run prisons.

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Ascalaphus
post Feb 6 2010, 06:27 AM
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I like the idea of the guv'mint keeping all the likely suspects SINless so they won't have any inconvenient civil rights when you want to shoot them.
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Kurious
post Feb 6 2010, 06:45 AM
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QUOTE (TheOOB @ Feb 6 2010, 03:58 AM) *
The number of executions performed varies widely by state(texas having over 4 times as much as the next highest state, Virginia, and over a hundred times that of my home state.


"Texas has the death penalty and we use it! Other states are trying to abolish the death penalty. My state's putting in an express lane."

-Ron White

(Sorry, just had too).
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Professor Evil O...
post Feb 6 2010, 08:46 AM
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"Some jurisdictions maintain the Death Penalty for Murder One. Seattle does not." Shadowtech, pg. 108.

Yes it's an old reference, but I doubt the situation has changed much since late 2052. Many of the old (SR1 and SR2 era) location source books have a chart listing the penalties for a variety of crimes, including the legality of gear, that section usually mentions if that nation has capital punishment.

Regarding the Death Penalty in the UCAS, keep in mind that it is made up of both the old USA and old Canada. Each state probably decides for itself weather or not to have capital punishment.
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LivingOxymoron
post Feb 6 2010, 09:21 AM
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QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Feb 5 2010, 08:39 PM) *
A dead prisoner is a prisoner that isn't making money for the privately-run prisons.

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-karma


My thoughts exactly. Its probably still legal under the UCAS and the CAS constitutions, but I'll bet that the corrections corps (like Lone Star) have lobbied it out of practical existence, or even secretly fund the appeals for death row inmates.
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Heath Robinson
post Feb 6 2010, 10:26 AM
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QUOTE (LivingOxymoron @ Feb 6 2010, 09:21 AM) *
or even secretly fund the appeals for death row inmates.

Why would they need to secretly fund these appeals? They simply need to spin it as being interested in justice. Recent events demonstrate that a not-insignificant number of people detained for execution are so detained on false grounds. When you have a record as bad as two thirds of death sentences being overturned in appeals because of misconduct or incompetance, I think it's valid for even a good-ole-boy corp like Lone Star to say that they are seriously concerned by the possibility of the execution of an innocent.
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Sengir
post Feb 6 2010, 12:47 PM
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QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Feb 6 2010, 05:39 AM) *
A dead prisoner is a prisoner that isn't making money for the privately-run prisons.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Great point (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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LurkerOutThere
post Feb 6 2010, 02:53 PM
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QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Feb 5 2010, 10:39 PM) *
A dead prisoner is a prisoner that isn't making money for the privately-run prisons.


Yes but their also not costing the government money into the above privately run prisons. Don't think for a second that your government (especially in SR) won't kill you to save a buck.
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Daylen
post Feb 6 2010, 03:32 PM
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I would imagine most places would have it legal to use the death penalty but would not use it. Why kill a prisoner when you can just charge more taxes to keep em in jail. with or without a SIN. And if its cheaper to keep them alive because of lawyer costs then why bother killing them? They are a serial killer of babies and toddlers perhaps? well that would be like an insurance policy that makes money. who would want to shut down the prisons if serial killers would be released? I think the only way to keep a good dystopian feel with a oft used death penalty would be if the soon to be executed were sent to a chop shop for human spare parts. That works even better if there are SINless around to not even need a real trial to go to the chop shop. The SINers would like to have cheap transplants availble to those who dont get caught violating the law.
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nezumi
post Feb 6 2010, 07:07 PM
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QUOTE (Daylen @ Feb 6 2010, 10:32 AM) *
well that would be like an insurance policy that makes money. who would want to shut down the prisons if serial killers would be released?


I like that line of thought because the next step is that the only case where the death penalty would be considered is in white collar crime cases (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Imagine the trial of the Enron execs if capital punishment was a possibility?
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Daylen
post Feb 6 2010, 07:35 PM
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or go Niven style and consider that every crime might warrent the death penalty to keep the supply of organs moving. all depends on who is running things I guess, if the corps are in charge as is usually standard it might not be a death penalty.
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'Sconnie
post Feb 6 2010, 08:42 PM
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QUOTE (Penta @ Feb 6 2010, 02:34 AM) *
Quick, stupid question:

Does the UCAS have the death penalty?

Has that even been stated anywhere, either way?


This thread reminds me of one of the pictures in SOTA 2064. The troll with the "Cleaning Crew" shirt hauling out a couple of freshly killed inmates as the man next in line watches.
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Stahlseele
post Feb 6 2010, 08:47 PM
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Hmm, now i wanna play a rogue LS cop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itmNiTwHOsM
Mix with Robocop and call it a Day ^^
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TBRMInsanity
post Feb 6 2010, 09:06 PM
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I think it was in either the Denver Source Book or Neo-Anarchists Guide to North America, that stated the UCAS only has the death penalty for high treason only. The CAS still has it for most capitol crimes (including 2nd degree murder) though.
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Daylen
post Feb 6 2010, 09:20 PM
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I bet Aztland isnt so nice as to let everyone serve out their term or go with a nice electric chair. I would suspect they harvest organs and use inmates no good for that as guinea pigs.
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