Technomancers and Sensor Software, another annoying Empathy software post? Options

[Achsin]

According to Unwired, Technomancers can learn Complex forms to emulate other kinds of software, specifically stated are sensor software. So a Technomancer with Resonance 6 can learn a rating 6 Empathy Complex form but can he use it by himself, or does he have to route it through some other kind of sensor?

It would be much better than pulling out the old emotitoy for the meet. Completly undetectable.

Also, for Lie Detection, could I just look through some Thermovision glasses to get the +2 bonus?

And would I be limited to just the software rating for the dice pools, or could I use my own skills/attributes? (for things like Vehicle ID for example, which uses Rating for a perception test)

[Neowulf]

Require them to have external sensors of some sort. It's not hard to get contact lenses and headphones.
Though I would allow it without external sensors if they had the simrig CF as well. Use it's recording capability to bridge the gap between the odd meat sensors and the emulated software.


As long as the thermo glasses also had an image link, sounds good.
I see the image link as the actual wireless link that connects the glasses to your pan, mainly because the only other vision mod that connects to an external source (smartlink) also requires the image link.


Sensor software is meant to be a Little Buddy type program, that sits on your commlink and runs continuous specialized perception checks so you don't have to. Keep it to software + sensor.
Again, go with external sensors required, unless you want to allow the simrig as a valid sensor input.

[Jaid]

the tacnet software allows you to use the mk 1 eyeball as a sensor, iirc. i don't see why it couldn't work the same for other software.

just remember, you can only emulate up to the rating of the software you have access to (ie, you cannot thread it up to rating 12, unless you have access to rating 12 software to emulate)

[Surukai]

just remember, you can only emulate up to the rating of the software you have access to (ie, you cannot thread it up to rating 12, unless you have access to rating 12 software to emulate)

Can't you? I know the Biowire echo have such limitations for skillsofts to prevent threaded monster skills but I can't recall seeing that on regular Complex Forms. I thought the whole idea of technomancers was to run around with 10+ exploit and stealth for speedy and completely invisible entry anywhere...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Can't you? I know the Biowire echo have such limitations for skillsofts to prevent threaded monster skills but I can't recall seeing that on regular Complex Forms. I thought the whole idea of technomancers was to run around with 10+ exploit and stealth for speedy and completely invisible entry anywhere...

That is the Idea... Except Emulation is not the Same as Threading... Jaid was actually talking about Emulate... He can Emulate the Software and buy it as a CF... at that point, he can then augment the CF using Threading... 2 Different Things entirely...

Keep the Faith

[Neowulf]

Ya know, actually looking this up, Unwired specifically states all of this. Under adopting software, pg. 136.
So yes they're limited to emulating based on an already possessed program, and they need connections to external sensors.
And a couple pages back under tacnets it states you can use natural sensors with a simrig, so the simrig CF should work.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Ya know, actually looking this up, Unwired specifically states all of this. Under adopting software, pg. 136.
So yes they're limited to emulating based on an already possessed program, and they need connections to external sensors.
And a couple pages back under tacnets it states you can use natural sensors with a simrig, so the simrig CF should work.

Indeed...

Keep the Faith

[Jaid]

That is the Idea... Except Emulation is not the Same as Threading... Jaid was actually talking about Emulate... He can Emulate the Software and buy it as a CF... at that point, he can then augment the CF using Threading... 2 Different Things entirely...

Keep the Faith

even a (paid-with-karma) emulated soft cannot be threaded further. once you've made it like the original, you can't make it *more* like the original.

thus, you can't thread an emulated program. it simply doesn't have any meaningful effect.

[Sengir]

just remember, you can only emulate up to the rating of the software you have access to (ie, you cannot thread it up to rating 12, unless you have access to rating 12 software to emulate)

But emulating is only used for skillsofts, everything (except agents and autosofts) else can be threaded if the GM approves.

[Jaid]

In theory, a technomancer can adapt any piece of
software by mimicking the program with a complex
form that he shapes (by threading or learning) based
on the original.

it isn't explicit, but if you're mimicking and adapting (from the title, it should probably be adopting) a piece of software, that implies you have said piece of software and are trying to duplicate it. you can't duplicate it so well that it works better than the original.

[Sengir]

Well, what does an Exploit CF do if it's not mimicking an Exploit program? I realize that this is open to interpretation, though.

[Neowulf]

Adopting software does say the form can be threaded, it also says "based on the original". It also, right at the bottom, says "Individual gamemasters may choose whether to allow this in their games."
So it comes down to the GM, and mow powerful they want technos to be.

If they allow sensor software CFs, allow them to be threaded above what the TM has access to, and allows empathy to straight up add to the social skill rolls, then technos become way overpowered. A resonance 5 elf techno, with 6 cha and a 4 social skill, could thread a known 5 empathy to 10. So 6 cha + 10 emapthy + 4 skill. 20 dice our of chargen as an afterthought.
Out of chargen with 6 resonance, 8 cha, 6 con with specialization, 6 empathy, and idoru paragon. 8cha + 12 empathy + 8 con + 2 idoru, 30 dice base con test. There's a techno that could worm his way onto the next rocket up to ZO.

If they allow sensor software CFs, but only up to a level currently or previously observed, they can keep technos from tacking on huge bonuses to social and perfection skills whenever they feel like it.

Not allowing sensor software CFs keeps them from add one more bonus to their already decent repertoire.

[Ascalaphus]

I think it makes sense for a technomancer to be able to learn sensor software as a complex fom, or perhaps to thread it from an example. I'd just limit it to the same maximum of regular sensorsofts. Why?

- Game balance

- The standard CFs are all matrix-oriented, while sensorsofts are focused on the material world. Different maximums make sense.