IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Tradition., hows does one get one?
Ophis
post Feb 7 2010, 12:28 PM
Post #1


Mystery Archaeologist
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,906
Joined: 19-September 05
From: The apple tree
Member No.: 7,760



Okay I'm running an SR game (natch) and one of the characters has just awakened as a Mystic Adept, the player is new to the game and so has no set ideas about how it all works or what she wants the character to be. She has a mentor spirit (moon maiden) and has so far only expresses adept powers, when she learns "proper" magic how does she/I determine her tradition I figure that it is determined by training/upbringing and she's a hispanic ex gang girl in Denver, she has had no real spiritual guidance in her life. Should it just be down to who trains her new talents?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Stahlseele
post Feb 7 2010, 12:42 PM
Post #2


The ShadowComedian
**********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 14,538
Joined: 3-October 07
From: Hamburg, AGS
Member No.: 13,525



Magic is shaped by it's users belief.
If (s(he believes it works because bugs bunny allows her to do it, then so be it.
Most stumble upon magic in an accidental manner.
Waving their hands around agitated and suddenly stuff happens.
Hmm, wonder if there's a connection here? I think i waved my hands like so, and i was in this kinda mood and thought like this and . . oh, it works if i get really into it O.o
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Karoline
post Feb 7 2010, 02:08 PM
Post #3


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,679
Joined: 19-September 09
Member No.: 17,652



As Stahlseele said, it depends entirely on the user. If she is christian she might believe that her powers are a sign from God and thus become whatever that Tradition is called. Or if she is christian and is 'evil' she might think that Satan is taking an interest in her.

It could also be that she reads up on some of the different schools of magic and more or less decides that she wants to follow one of them, and gee howdy it would work for her. Or maybe she figures the moon has something to do with her powers (Being guided by the moon maiden and all) and so has her own tradition (Which I imagine would realistically be exceedingly common), perhaps with a 'only cast spells at night' geas.

Also, if the character isn't very spiritual, she might lean towards Hermetic or Chaos magic, as those two traditions have the least spirituality around them and both basically feel that you're talking about a new form of science.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ophis
post Feb 7 2010, 02:23 PM
Post #4


Mystery Archaeologist
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,906
Joined: 19-September 05
From: The apple tree
Member No.: 7,760



As it stands the character is in shock at being mystic...
The other party member is a (varient) Chaos Mage and may end up teaching her a bit, but I suspect she will be hooked up with a suitable teacher at some point.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Daylen
post Feb 7 2010, 02:32 PM
Post #5


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,424
Joined: 7-December 09
From: Freedonia
Member No.: 17,952



Karoline: you make me think of a pratchett quote(paraphrased); wizards don't believe in gods, they know the gods exist, but BELIEVING in the gods would be like BELIEVING in Larry the blacksmith down the street.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
wind_in_the_ston...
post Feb 8 2010, 03:17 AM
Post #6


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 560
Joined: 4-March 06
From: Pueblo Corporate Council
Member No.: 8,332



Interesting that nurturing Moon Maiden chose the ganger. I guess that's why she's an ex-ganger.

As has been said, tradition is very much dependent on one's beliefs in how magic works. Those beliefs can certainly be influenced by one's teacher, but that can only go so far. There can be some drama when the student's path diverges from the teacher's. Or they might be incompatible from the start.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Stry
post Feb 8 2010, 05:16 AM
Post #7


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 34
Joined: 5-January 10
Member No.: 18,013



UMT could be another path that may work as well.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Hagga
post Feb 8 2010, 11:47 AM
Post #8


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 825
Joined: 21-October 08
Member No.: 16,538



Paths could shift over time - there might be a tradition that most people shift to after a certain period because they learn and improvise more and more until "oh, holy shit. when did I turn into a chaos mage/hermetic/shaman/insect magician/rasta?"

I suppose mentor spirits would vastly shift the way that someone thinks about their tradition, too. They might not know of their tradition, until someone finally takes a look and goes "oh, look, ANOTHER Aesyr." Or things might just.. come to them. A slightly easier way to do things. Etc.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Patrick the Gnom...
post Feb 8 2010, 05:38 PM
Post #9


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 419
Joined: 10-February 09
Member No.: 16,863



Keep in mind that a tradition is like (or in fact most of the time is) a religion for most mages. Finding a tradition should be a matter of figuring out for herself how she uses magic. If she's initiating, the things she sees on the metaplanes should both be heavily influenced by and heavily influence her ideas about the way the world works.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DireRadiant
post Feb 8 2010, 07:20 PM
Post #10


The Dragon Never Sleeps
*********

Group: Admin
Posts: 6,924
Joined: 1-September 05
Member No.: 7,667



In Shadowrun, tradition gets you!

Little Denver Adept Grrrl, "I don't believe in Moon Maiden."
Moon Maiden, "That's ok, Moon Maiden believes in you."
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Zolhex
post Feb 8 2010, 07:47 PM
Post #11


Project Terminus: Soul Hunters
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,052
Joined: 6-November 03
From: Casselberry, Florida U.S.A.
Member No.: 5,798



I did some research a while back and made several magic groups they are posted over in the Missions thread someplace. (ya can follow the link in my sig to them as well)

Out of all the ones listed I found that this tradition has some involvement with the moon in its belifes:

Hedge Witches (I named my group Havamal Incantations)

Feel free to to look them all over use what ya want you could maybe use the Wicca or Hermetic one I have too the Wicca one has nothing about the moon but the hermetic does it also is interested in the stars and sun so that's you or your players choice.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ophis
post Feb 8 2010, 08:03 PM
Post #12


Mystery Archaeologist
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,906
Joined: 19-September 05
From: The apple tree
Member No.: 7,760



QUOTE (Casazil @ Feb 8 2010, 07:47 PM) *
I did some research a while back and made several magic groups they are posted over in the Missions thread someplace. (ya can follow the link in my sig to them as well)

Out of all the ones listed I found that this tradition has some involvement with the moon in its belifes:

Hedge Witches (I named my group Havamal Incantations)

Feel free to to look them all over use what ya want you could maybe use the Wicca or Hermetic one I have too the Wicca one has nothing about the moon but the hermetic does it also is interested in the stars and sun so that's you or your players choice.


Many Wiccans/pagans I know work with moon deities, as these are very common most of the religious linked traditions will have some possibility.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ophis
post Feb 8 2010, 08:04 PM
Post #13


Mystery Archaeologist
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,906
Joined: 19-September 05
From: The apple tree
Member No.: 7,760



QUOTE (DireRadiant @ Feb 8 2010, 07:20 PM) *
In Shadowrun, tradition gets you!

Little Denver Adept Grrrl, "I don't believe in Moon Maiden."
Moon Maiden, "That's ok, Moon Maiden believes in you."


I can see that conversation happening, she's already almost told the to mentor spirits that approached her to leave her alone.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nezumi
post Feb 8 2010, 09:10 PM
Post #14


Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet;
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 6,546
Joined: 24-October 03
From: DeeCee, U.S.
Member No.: 5,760



DireRadiant is correct. While the story is 'your belief shapes your magic', it's really the other way around. And why not? People believe what they see. If you happen to be successful doing hermetic magic, it's what you believe works. If your guardian spirit comes down and tells you straight out 'this is how things are work' and goes on to prove it, clearly then THAT is what you believe.

It doesn't matter what the character believes in. Many are touched by traditions they feel are false or wicked. The spirits are wise in their ways, and sometimes give their unlikely gifts with the intent of teaching. Don't be afraid to give her a tradition which is in conflict with her own morals and upbringing. No one said magic would be easy.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kanislatrans
post Feb 8 2010, 09:18 PM
Post #15


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 602
Joined: 2-December 07
From: The corner of Detonation Boulevard and Fascination Street
Member No.: 14,464



QUOTE (nezumi @ Feb 8 2010, 04:10 PM) *
DireRadiant is correct. While the story is 'your belief shapes your magic', it's really the other way around. And why not? People believe what they see. If you happen to be successful doing hermetic magic, it's what you believe works. If your guardian spirit comes down and tells you straight out 'this is how things are work' and goes on to prove it, clearly then THAT is what you believe.

It doesn't matter what the character believes in. Many are touched by traditions they feel are false or wicked. The spirits are wise in their ways, and sometimes give their unlikely gifts with the intent of teaching. Don't be afraid to give her a tradition which is in conflict with her own morals and upbringing. No one said magic would be easy.



QFT...Grandfather Coyote says "I told you it'd be fun...I never said it would be fun for you!"(grin)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Udoshi
post Feb 8 2010, 09:52 PM
Post #16


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,782
Joined: 28-August 09
Member No.: 17,566



Choosing a tradition is simple.

Out of character: The player chooses one. Simple. Ideally, it should be one appropriate for the character concept.

In character: A tradition is the character's way of rationalizing their gift, working with it, and making magic happen. It should fit the character, or be compatable with the character's morals enough to grow into. As a GM, you should absolutely NOT be afraid to throw away the fluff and the background of a tradition(The character's not norse? Oh no! that doesn't work! Fuck that.) if it fits. Borrow a page from latent emerging from unwired, and have your character use double their magic to resist drain until they find a tradition.(Its still 1, right? Just tell them two dice for now. Now they have an incentive to find a tradition) Perhaps have the character's mentor spirit introduce various spirits. Fire, earth, air and the like. See which one the player is drawn too, and have the maiden show the character how to summon one. Do this again a little later, and compare those two spirit types and one of the character's stats to the traditions in street magic and the digital grimoire. Suddenly, you're going to have a real short list of fitting traditions for your player. Pick one, and you're good to go. The rites and teaching of that tradition can come later, as the character discovers their talent.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Patrick the Gnom...
post Feb 8 2010, 10:07 PM
Post #17


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 419
Joined: 10-February 09
Member No.: 16,863



QUOTE (Udoshi @ Feb 8 2010, 04:52 PM) *
Choosing a tradition is simple.

Out of character: The player chooses one. Simple. Ideally, it should be one appropriate for the character concept.

In character: A tradition is the character's way of rationalizing their gift, working with it, and making magic happen. It should fit the character, or be compatable with the character's morals enough to grow into. As a GM, you should absolutely NOT be afraid to throw away the fluff and the background of a tradition(The character's not norse? Oh no! that doesn't work! Fuck that.) if it fits. Borrow a page from latent emerging from unwired, and have your character use double their magic to resist drain until they find a tradition.(Its still 1, right? Just tell them two dice for now. Now they have an incentive to find a tradition) Perhaps have the character's mentor spirit introduce various spirits. Fire, earth, air and the like. See which one the player is drawn too, and have the maiden show the character how to summon one. Do this again a little later, and compare those two spirit types and one of the character's stats to the traditions in street magic and the digital grimoire. Suddenly, you're going to have a real short list of fitting traditions for your player. Pick one, and you're good to go. The rites and teaching of that tradition can come later, as the character discovers their talent.


Sounds good except for the "double your magic" part. Willpower is the global drain resist stat, magic is never used to resist drain
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ophis
post Feb 8 2010, 10:10 PM
Post #18


Mystery Archaeologist
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,906
Joined: 19-September 05
From: The apple tree
Member No.: 7,760



Thanks for the ideas so far guys.

I think I may go with Udoshi's ideas, the player should enjoy that.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Udoshi
post Feb 8 2010, 10:14 PM
Post #19


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,782
Joined: 28-August 09
Member No.: 17,566



QUOTE (Patrick the Gnome @ Feb 8 2010, 03:07 PM) *
Sounds good except for the "double your magic" part. Willpower is the global drain resist stat, magic is never used to resist drain


Oops. My bad. Easy fix, tho. Just use straight willpower until another stat is decided upon.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Udoshi
post Feb 8 2010, 11:13 PM
Post #20


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,782
Joined: 28-August 09
Member No.: 17,566



Also - since your character is awakening as a mystic adept, you should consider houseruling mystic adepts. Have them split their magic into two distinct Magic stats. Adept Magic and Spellcasting Magic. Start each at one, and have the player raise them seperately.

In 4th anniversary, which I assume you're playing, magic is -seriously- expensive to raise. 6->7 is 35 karma. And thats not even counting initiation. Mysadepts raise their magic, and then choose which point to devote it too. Skip that shit, or you may find your player losing interest in things arcane because it advances so slow, and they're starting from -one- anyway. Throw the player a bone. Yes, they need to raise them seperately, but it will save headaches with recordkeeping/ keeping the adept side and the spell side seperate. But the player will, overall, be happier and more in control of how they develop. Yes, they could potentially have both at 5, but that's a hundred and forty karma. So simply limit their total points to the usual Magic(6)-essence+initiation limit - or don't worry about it. They're unlikely to get that far.

Its basically to limit the 'Ugh. I need to spend 45 karma AND initiate to get one more dice on spellcasting tests? Eff that. *gets automatics 7 and aptitude for cheaper*'. Rating x 5 attributes in 4thA kind of hose awakened characters, and its something to be mindful for your newly awakened.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ophis
post Feb 9 2010, 12:13 AM
Post #21


Mystery Archaeologist
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,906
Joined: 19-September 05
From: The apple tree
Member No.: 7,760



QUOTE (Udoshi @ Feb 8 2010, 11:13 PM) *
Also - since your character is awakening as a mystic adept, you should consider houseruling mystic adepts. Have them split their magic into two distinct Magic stats. Adept Magic and Spellcasting Magic. Start each at one, and have the player raise them seperately.

In 4th anniversary, which I assume you're playing, magic is -seriously- expensive to raise. 6->7 is 35 karma. And thats not even counting initiation. Mysadepts raise their magic, and then choose which point to devote it too. Skip that shit, or you may find your player losing interest in things arcane because it advances so slow, and they're starting from -one- anyway. Throw the player a bone. Yes, they need to raise them seperately, but it will save headaches with recordkeeping/ keeping the adept side and the spell side seperate. But the player will, overall, be happier and more in control of how they develop. Yes, they could potentially have both at 5, but that's a hundred and forty karma. So simply limit their total points to the usual Magic(6)-essence+initiation limit - or don't worry about it. They're unlikely to get that far.

Its basically to limit the 'Ugh. I need to spend 45 karma AND initiate to get one more dice on spellcasting tests? Eff that. *gets automatics 7 and aptitude for cheaper*'. Rating x 5 attributes in 4thA kind of hose awakened characters, and its something to be mindful for your newly awakened.


One house rule I use mostly fixes the higher magic problem, I treat racial mods and initiation as bonuses that you basically ignore for advancement so you have maxed magic and initiate you are effectively buying it up to 6 again each time. Thankfully most of my players don't min-max and play to concept, sure even with the educed costs they moan about the cost of increasing magic, but still they just save. "Hey get this other skill, you can afford it." I say helpfully. They just shake their heads and demand bigger rewards or more games.

I actually gave (well I charged her karma for it) her 2 magic as an adept to start with so she can have some nice tricks,including Astral Sight (I give MAs Astral sight for 0.5 as a bone for their karma sink nature) as she awoke during her first tempo high. She'll pick up her first spell casting point when she picks up her next magic.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
wind_in_the_ston...
post Feb 9 2010, 03:47 AM
Post #22


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 560
Joined: 4-March 06
From: Pueblo Corporate Council
Member No.: 8,332



QUOTE (Ophis @ Feb 8 2010, 08:13 PM) *
you are effectively buying it up to 6 again each time.

Um, not quite sure what you're saying here, but just in case... the extra cost for raising an attribute to 6 only applies during character generation.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
wind_in_the_ston...
post Feb 9 2010, 03:49 AM
Post #23


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 560
Joined: 4-March 06
From: Pueblo Corporate Council
Member No.: 8,332



QUOTE (DireRadiant @ Feb 8 2010, 03:20 PM) *
In Shadowrun, tradition gets you!

Little Denver Adept Grrrl, "I don't believe in Moon Maiden."
Moon Maiden, "That's ok, Moon Maiden believes in you."


Don't confuse tradition with totem. You gain a mentor spirit because that's who you are. Your tradition is defined by your understanding of the workings of the universe.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Karoline
post Feb 9 2010, 03:50 AM
Post #24


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,679
Joined: 19-September 09
Member No.: 17,652



QUOTE (wind_in_the_stones @ Feb 8 2010, 10:47 PM) *
Um, not quite sure what you're saying here, but just in case... the extra cost for raising an attribute to 6 only applies during character generation.


*snicker* Yeah, because coming up with 15 BP outside of character creation would be a real pain.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Draco18s
post Feb 9 2010, 05:10 AM
Post #25


Immortal Elf
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,289
Joined: 2-October 08
Member No.: 16,392



A character's understanding of magic could come from mass media too. If they watch a lot of "fantasy flicks" they'll be more inclined towards the traditional wizard (wands, books, and incantations, and such).

I myself prefer the "reality hacker" method,* because I'm such a code nut.

Also, XKCD.

*A GM I knew once modified a game to include magic and I tried more than one to get him to explain how magic worked in a fluff sense. How did my character think about magic? How do the NPCs think about magic, what sort of structure does it have? And all I got back was "you roll d10s, like any other skill."
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 24th July 2024 - 08:44 AM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.