IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

5 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 5 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Played Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines videogame, Got it off Steam...
Critias
post Feb 18 2010, 04:50 AM
Post #51


Freelance Elf
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 7,216
Joined: 30-September 04
From: Texas
Member No.: 6,714



A Gangrel without claws, is just...just...*twitches*...that's like a Street Samurai without a Smartlink, man!

But yeah, they're solely for asskicking time, in the video game. Not so great for hauling butt, but terrific for making big slashy tears in people you don't like. Toss in a decent Brawl skill and a little Blood Buff, and you're golden.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Crusher Bob
post Feb 18 2010, 08:12 AM
Post #52


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,598
Joined: 15-March 03
From: Hong Kong
Member No.: 4,253



Another thing worth mentioning that isn't obvious is that claws do aggravated damage. The soak pools of monsters also determine how much damage they take, and everything have a much lower aggravated damage soak pool. That's why the sword that does agg damage is usually a better choice than the bushhook (which has a higher base damage) but only does lethal damage. That's also why the knife is a step above your hands when it comes to the killin' it changes the damage you do to lethal, while your hands only do bashing damage.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hobgoblin
post Feb 18 2010, 09:00 AM
Post #53


panda!
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,331
Joined: 8-March 02
From: north of central europe
Member No.: 2,242



end result is that the owod system had 3 damage tracks, but stacked into one.

iirc, bashing could be overwritten by lethal while aggravated overwrite bashing and pushed lethal ahead of it.

bashing and lethal goes byebye with a bit of blood for a vampire, even aggravated goes away for a werewolf, while anything but bashing was a death sentence for a careless mage...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Crusher Bob
post Feb 18 2010, 09:11 AM
Post #54


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,598
Joined: 15-March 03
From: Hong Kong
Member No.: 4,253



Eh? It was vampires that had trouble with aggravated damage, as they couldn't soak it normally, and could only heal 1/level a night (iirc). A mage that takes aggravated damage just slaps some life magic on and is fine. If you don't have life then any sort of damage is bad, as you don't heal any faster than a normal guy. From what I remember, mages soaks aggravated damage as normal, and most of the interesting combat effects tended to produce aggravated damage by default
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hobgoblin
post Feb 18 2010, 09:17 AM
Post #55


panda!
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,331
Joined: 8-March 02
From: north of central europe
Member No.: 2,242



note the careless part (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

btw, i did a bit of checking, and magical healing of aggravated damage was vulgar, inviting all kinds of additional problems...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Professor Evil O...
post Feb 18 2010, 09:40 AM
Post #56


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 129
Joined: 1-February 10
From: CalFree State
Member No.: 18,103



QUOTE (Crusher Bob @ Feb 18 2010, 01:11 AM) *
Eh? It was vampires that had trouble with aggravated damage, as they couldn't soak it normally, and could only heal 1/level a night (iirc). A mage that takes aggravated damage just slaps some life magic on and is fine. If you don't have life then any sort of damage is bad, as you don't heal any faster than a normal guy. From what I remember, mages soaks aggravated damage as normal, and most of the interesting combat effects tended to produce aggravated damage by default


Post mage 1st ed, mages couldn't soak aggro or even lethal without using magic to give them the ability to do so, ie grow armor with life. As mortals, they can only soak bashing without using magic or armor. Since pretty much everything in the game is lethal or aggro, combat could get really deadly. Mages are just about the only supernatural that is worse off than a vamp (the other big one being hunters). Of course, any group of mages would include a couple of life capable casters who could just buff the whole group, unlike vamps who would each have to invest in fortitude (or one of the other disciplines that allowed aggro soaking at higher levels).

The changes to how damage was tracked was one of the biggest difference between the earlier white wolf games and the later 2nd/3rd (ok, revised) ones. It was an attempt to try and shore up a completely unrealistic damage system, where average people could shrug off small arms fire with minimal injuries. So they shifted from normal/aggro for damage to bashing/lethal/aggro. They then "fixed" combat by taking the soak test away from mortals for lethal damage, and rolled mages into the category of mortals. This made them very squishy, because, as you pointed out, pretty much everything magical is aggro or at least the also unsoakable lethal.

On the other hand it didn't really fix all that much because the problem really tended to crop up because a poor shot couldn't really boost up the low base damage all that much, especially for firearms. If a bad shot was coupled with a low damage roll people could literally take no damage before soaking. It was even worse in dark ages games where ranged weapons were even weaker. In dark ages vampire I've seen arrows bounce off of peasants far too often for my taste (damage 2 from a short bow, so a 25% no damage unless you had net successes to hit!). The group I played with were RAW up until then but we quickly adopted the GM's house rules after a few incidents like that.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
tete
post Feb 18 2010, 05:44 PM
Post #57


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,029
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Seattle Wa, USA
Member No.: 1,139



So when I play bloodlines I pick a single discipline to upgrade first then I spend 1/2 my XP on that and 1/2 on everything else. I also save my everything else XP until I need it for some reason. Always go for the cheapest route to get your +1. Once my one discipline is at 5 then I pick a second one to start upgrading. You may want to try this method if you decide to play through it again, I find it works really well. There are 5 endings to go through, plus about 4 game types though some can be combined (malk, nos, phys, social). Personally after playing the gangrel I would go for a social character next, that would be someone with dominate or presence. Then play the malk and lastly the nos. The nos I find is a VERY different game just by being soo limited on the social.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Critias
post Feb 18 2010, 05:49 PM
Post #58


Freelance Elf
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 7,216
Joined: 30-September 04
From: Texas
Member No.: 6,714



In a (fairly) recent Vampire game, my Anarch-turned-Scourge Brujah got into a scrap with five Sabbat. At once. By himself (but that's okay, the rest of the coterie wouldn't have been much help). I should point out, by the way, that this guy was a Social then Physical sort of character -- despite being an Anarch Brujah Biker type, he was the sort that was a charismatic, would-be-freedom-fighter, sort, with more points in Empathy and Leadership than Brawl and Dodge. He had respectable combat stats, but he wasn't your min/maxed combat monkey.

Luckily -- for me, not the Sabbat -- our ST wasn't really "up" on the damage system. We played by the Rule of Cool quite a bit in that short-lived campaign, and it carried over into fighting. My character drew his WWII veteran father's lucky old Ka-Bar, and commenced to slaughtering. Two Sabbies unloaded Uzis at him, one grew Black Talons, one (in a velvet suit) came at him with a rapier, and their resident Brujah Anti snarled and tore the fender off a nearby truck to start swinging at me like a bat.

I boosted Stamina, and then didn't bother to dodge or parry a damned thing except the one with the claws, because frankly he was the only one I was scared of.

Bullets do "bashing" damage to Vampires, which means Licks not only get to soak it, but it gets cut in half after the soak. Likewise, a fender -- even one wielded by a character with a little Potence -- is obviously bashing damage. They nickled and dimed me a bit with all the guns and such, and the whip-thin Toreador Anti with his rapier stung a little, but every hit I landed with my knife (lethal damage, with Potence to back it up), they were feeling (compared to his own rapier, which I was able to soak away to nothing thanks to spending blood heavily on Stamina).

Ah, good times, good times. The rest of the Coterie rounded the corner on about Round 4 or 5 of my aborted recon stealth mission, to find Elijah the Scourge battered and bloody, with a headless Toreador Anti on the ground, a blood-slick knife next to the corpse, and with my mouth latched onto the neck of the Sabbat Gangrel, who I grappled and drank dry (in the opposed Str vs. Str tests that ensue), with the rest of the Sabbat pack high-tailing it out of there.

Damage type, in other words, is VERY important in determining the outcome of a combat. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Crusher Bob
post Feb 19 2010, 04:06 AM
Post #59


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,598
Joined: 15-March 03
From: Hong Kong
Member No.: 4,253



I don't like what the revised damage system did to mage. It leads too much to mages having the adventure from teh safety of their couches (which mages are mostly capable of doing)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Crusher Bob
post Feb 19 2010, 04:06 AM
Post #60


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,598
Joined: 15-March 03
From: Hong Kong
Member No.: 4,253



I don't like what the revised damage system did to mage. It leads too much to mages having the adventure from teh safety of their couches (which mages are mostly capable of doing)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Professor Evil O...
post Feb 19 2010, 09:00 AM
Post #61


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 129
Joined: 1-February 10
From: CalFree State
Member No.: 18,103



QUOTE (Crusher Bob @ Feb 18 2010, 08:06 PM) *
I don't like what the revised damage system did to mage. It leads too much to mages having the adventure from teh safety of their couches (which mages are mostly capable of doing)


Personally, I don't like the revised damage rules period. The distinction between bashing and lethal is counter intuitive at best. Why can mortals suddenly not soak anything other than fists and clubs? A weedy 100 pound teenager was suddenly just as tough against a knife as a pro boxer. Really? Aggro and lethal were exactly the same for soaking for fae, mages, shapeshifters, and mortals. They could either soak everything or nothing at all. You could be killed just as easily by bashing/lethal/aggro. For fae and shapeshifters all three types of damage were exactly the same when it came to soaking. You rolled the exact same number of dice against the same difficulty. Once your damage track filled up you were just as helpless and just as dead. It was just a silly way to make mages and mortals stupidly weak in combat.

The distinction between the three only really made a difference for vampires, who took half damage from bashing and couldn't soak aggro without using disciplines (fortitude was the easiest, but not the only way). For some reason, they decided guns were bashing against vamps. I guess they wanted melee to be better. So much better that you stood to do more damage with a knife (STR+1 lethal) than most firearms (3-8 bashing). Especially since you could use blood and potence to massively raise HTH damage anyways. Things were skewed enough already, and now guns did half damage on top. The best part was that arrows did lethal. You were actually better off with weapons that were several hundred years out of date.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hobgoblin
post Feb 19 2010, 09:46 AM
Post #62


panda!
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,331
Joined: 8-March 02
From: north of central europe
Member No.: 2,242



i suspect this shows that vampire was the focus of owod fully, with the other branches a nice account filler, but nothing really important to the company.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
tete
post Feb 19 2010, 03:55 PM
Post #63


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,029
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Seattle Wa, USA
Member No.: 1,139



While Vampire was a big portion (especially of the LARP community). Werewolf and Mage were very successful lines.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Critias
post Feb 19 2010, 06:21 PM
Post #64


Freelance Elf
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 7,216
Joined: 30-September 04
From: Texas
Member No.: 6,714



Yeah, the big damage change pretty much made Mages into glass cannons.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Wounded Ronin
post Feb 20 2010, 12:34 AM
Post #65


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 6,340
Joined: 6-June 04
Member No.: 6,383



QUOTE (Professor Evil Overlord @ Feb 19 2010, 05:00 AM) *
You were actually better off with weapons that were several hundred years out of date.


I also noticed and was amused by how in the video game the hunters tended to run around with crossbows.

So crossbows, which do the same thing as rifles in terms of piercing flesh with a pointy high velocity object, somehow do a lot more damage...because the bolt doesn't spin? Because the velocity is lower?

By that logic I should be able to cold-load some .45 ACP cartridges and slow them down enough to make them do crossbow bolt damage, or maybe cold load some shotgun slugs and fire them out of a short-barrelled shotgun. Or maybe I should use a 50 caliber blackpowder flintlock pistol for uber damage because it'd be slow and large.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hyzmarca
post Feb 20 2010, 01:45 AM
Post #66


Midnight Toker
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 7,682
Joined: 4-July 04
From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop
Member No.: 6,456



I imagine that the logic behind that is in the fact that arrowheads are usually sharp and sharp things do lethal damage. Though I could be wrong.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hobgoblin
post Feb 20 2010, 08:06 AM
Post #67


panda!
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 10,331
Joined: 8-March 02
From: north of central europe
Member No.: 2,242



also, there is the wood issue (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Wounded Ronin
post Feb 20 2010, 06:43 PM
Post #68


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 6,340
Joined: 6-June 04
Member No.: 6,383



So, wait, in WOD, werewolves are, like, immune to everything?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Karoline
post Feb 20 2010, 10:32 PM
Post #69


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,679
Joined: 19-September 09
Member No.: 17,652



So, skipping over reading all the stuff about WOD games in general and getting to the OP:

I've played the game before (Got it two or three years ago Halloween from steam at like 75% off) and very much suggest getting the unofficial patches. It's been so long that I very much don't remember what the changes where, but I remember that I liked them.

Malkavian is definitely worth a playthrough. Maybe not the first time (Because you won't know what the options mean sometimes), but definitely before you start skipping through all the chat, because actually reading the options and getting all the jokes and such is great.

Nosforatu is also cool to go through and see all the things they've actually gone through the trouble to change, but it can get somewhat confusing as to when letting people see you does or doesn't count as an infraction.

Say hi to Cain for me.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Wounded Ronin
post Feb 20 2010, 11:31 PM
Post #70


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 6,340
Joined: 6-June 04
Member No.: 6,383



QUOTE (Karoline @ Feb 20 2010, 06:32 PM) *
So, skipping over reading all the stuff about WOD games in general and getting to the OP:

I've played the game before (Got it two or three years ago Halloween from steam at like 75% off) and very much suggest getting the unofficial patches. It's been so long that I very much don't remember what the changes where, but I remember that I liked them.

Malkavian is definitely worth a playthrough. Maybe not the first time (Because you won't know what the options mean sometimes), but definitely before you start skipping through all the chat, because actually reading the options and getting all the jokes and such is great.

Nosforatu is also cool to go through and see all the things they've actually gone through the trouble to change, but it can get somewhat confusing as to when letting people see you does or doesn't count as an infraction.

Say hi to Cain for me.


How can you apply unofficial patches to a Steam version? Also, are there any mods or patches you'd recommend over the others? There seem to be a few out there.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Critias
post Feb 21 2010, 02:23 AM
Post #71


Freelance Elf
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 7,216
Joined: 30-September 04
From: Texas
Member No.: 6,714



QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Feb 20 2010, 01:43 PM) *
So, wait, in WOD, werewolves are, like, immune to everything?

Not necessarily. They just tend to always be wolfed out and sporting huge soak pools, plus they regenerate in a few of their forms (one health level a turn is pretty awesome on a seven-health-level scale). Silver will fuck their shit up, though, being impossible for them to soak AND hard for 'em to heal.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Karoline
post Feb 21 2010, 02:30 AM
Post #72


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,679
Joined: 19-September 09
Member No.: 17,652



As I recall you have to go into your C:\program files\Steam\steamapps\vampire folder and just run or unzip or whatever the patch there and it should work fine. You might have to change a .ini file slightly, but I don't recall it being a particularly difficult process. Remember that there are steam forums for all the different games, I wouldn't be surprised if someone has posted instructions.

I haven't tried any mods beyond the unofficial patches, so no idea on any of them. Oh, and I do remember that the patch changes something in the hotel and possibly the hospital as well... maybe in the castle, where some items are and such. Mostly just makes the game more stable as I remember a couple of crashes and glitches before patching and no troubles afterwards.

Like I said, got it.. guess it would be two and a half years ago almost now and haven't played it in a while. Very good game though, as I still remember large chunks of it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Professor Evil O...
post Feb 21 2010, 04:07 AM
Post #73


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 129
Joined: 1-February 10
From: CalFree State
Member No.: 18,103



QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Feb 19 2010, 05:45 PM) *
I imagine that the logic behind that is in the fact that arrowheads are usually sharp and sharp things do lethal damage. Though I could be wrong.


Let's be clear here. Fire arms were lethal damage to everyone except vampires. For some reason vampires took bashing damage, which was halved after soaking, from guns. No justifiable explanation was ever given. They just seemed to want to slant things even more in the favor of melee. The best explanation I've heard was that it helped to make vampires more competitive in a mixed modern WOD game. They are, hands down, the weakest of the big three (vamp/werewolf/mage).

QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Feb 20 2010, 12:06 AM) *
also, there is the wood issue (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


Definatly icing on the cake. Get enough extra success and you got to stake (paralyze) the vamp.

QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Feb 20 2010, 10:43 AM) *
So, wait, in WOD, werewolves are, like, immune to everything?



QUOTE (Critias @ Feb 20 2010, 06:23 PM) *
Not necessarily. They just tend to always be wolfed out and sporting huge soak pools, plus they regenerate in a few of their forms (one health level a turn is pretty awesome on a seven-health-level scale). Silver will fuck their shit up, though, being impossible for them to soak AND hard for 'em to heal.


Sort of. They could soak silver while in their breed form. So werewolves born as humans were ok in human form, those as wolves in wolf form. The nasty thing was that the metis (born as a werewolf) could shrug it off in werewolf form (they suffered over flaws to compensate). Oh, and there was a merit that let you soak silver in any form.

They healed 1 level of lethal or bashing per round. Aggro took longer to heal. They soaked both the same. They could also use rage to heal several levels at once, even from silver but were limited to how often they could do it (once/scene IIRC). Keep in mind though that basically anything that could stand up to a werewolf for more than a round was probably also able to inflict aggro and could soak aggro themselves.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
tete
post Feb 21 2010, 04:09 AM
Post #74


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,029
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Seattle Wa, USA
Member No.: 1,139



QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Feb 20 2010, 12:34 AM) *
So crossbows, which do the same thing as rifles in terms of piercing flesh with a pointy high velocity object, somehow do a lot more damage...because the bolt doesn't spin? Because the velocity is lower?


In the PnP it doesnt actually do more damage (not entirely true as a bow with the right arrow tip does lethal rather than bashing like guns) you just have a chance of staking the vampire thus paralyzing it. I can't recall if the video game reflects this or not.

The reasoning (if you want one) is guns do a lot of trama to organs through kinetics. Vampires are dead thus the only thing that matter is the brain and the heart, the rest of the organs don't do anything. Blades rip through muscle (they assume you are slashing) and sometimes bone, thus destroying the ability to manipulate the body part. Your claws are "mystical" which means they do agro for being "mystical".

I'm not saying it is great reasoning but it is the reasoning.

QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Feb 20 2010, 06:43 PM) *
So, wait, in WOD, werewolves are, like, immune to everything?


Think D&D Troll, they regen like they weren't even hit unless the damage is the right type (aggravated).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Crusher Bob
post Feb 21 2010, 04:18 AM
Post #75


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,598
Joined: 15-March 03
From: Hong Kong
Member No.: 4,253



The patch adds some stuff with your ghoul, changes where you get the agg damage sword, and changes around the hospital quests a little, iirc.

But yes, the malk dialogue is great, since you can say things that are true, but you don't know in character. For example, (iirc) when you first meet Jack in the alley, one of your dialogue choices is "and here's the plot of the game!"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

5 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 5 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 31st October 2014 - 10:42 AM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.