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> Do these exist?, Or were they just forgotten in the books?
Caadium
post Feb 11 2010, 07:22 AM
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Here are a couple of unrelated things I have noticed are absent from the books. I am wondering if there is a reason that they would have been left out, or were they simply overlooked?

1. The Microscopic Eye Magnification enhancement listed in Augmentation (pg. 38) does not seem to have a non-cyber counterpart. Is there a reason that you couldn't get that as a mod to goggles or even contacts? If it was available as a mod, what would be a fair price?

2. How come Technomancers don't have a version of the positive quality "Focused Concentration" to help them with fading? Should there not be one for some reason I can't think of? Should "Focused Concentration" be amended to include Technos and Fading?

Neither are big deals, but both just sort of caught my attention recently and I was wondering what people thought.
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Surukai
post Feb 11 2010, 07:40 AM
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QUOTE (Caadium @ Feb 11 2010, 08:22 AM) *
2. How come Technomancers don't have a version of the positive quality "Focused Concentration" to help them with fading? Should there not be one for some reason I can't think of? Should "Focused Concentration" be amended to include Technos and Fading?


They resist Fading with Resonance + streamstat instead of two other stats like mages. This gives them more fading dice when submerging (and raising resonance) while a mage is stuck at 12 dice (or 13-14 if you're Dwarf/Elf). That is one reason. They can easily get high fading dice pools compared to mages.

If you want I guess you can let technomancers take Focused Concentration and have it work the same way but since you already get extra fading dice when you raise resonance I didn't see the need for the quality. Besides, Analytical Mind, More than Metahuman, Codeslinger etc. are far better qualities for Technomancers and Focused Concentration puts you too close to the positive qualities cap (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Jaid
post Feb 11 2010, 07:43 AM
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1) presumably because optical microscopes tend to be kind of largish. larger-than-your-eye-ish even.

2) it's called "resonance". magicians don't add their magic to drain resistance. technomancers do add their resonance to fading resistance. therefore, technomancers who wish to have superior fading resistance pools simply boost their resonance.
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Caadium
post Feb 11 2010, 07:59 AM
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QUOTE (Jaid @ Feb 10 2010, 11:43 PM) *
1) presumably because optical microscopes tend to be kind of largish. larger-than-your-eye-ish even.

2) it's called "resonance". magicians don't add their magic to drain resistance. technomancers do add their resonance to fading resistance. therefore, technomancers who wish to have superior fading resistance pools simply boost their resonance.


See, I tend to disagree with the microscope. Modern microscopes are bigger than the eyes. The cyber version is an example of tech advancing beyond ours. By its stats it takes 3 capacity (the same as a smartlink), or .2 essence by itself (the same as rating 3 cyber-eyes or retractable hand-razors for comparison). If the same tech that allows for the smartlink modification can be but 1 part of what fits into modified contacts, why wouldn't there be a microscopic version? I honestly think its because Augmentation came out later and they never added it to the normal vision sensor lists.

I suppose the argument that a submerged techno can eventually get more fading resist dice makes sense. The argument that technos have more useful qualities is something I don't buy into. I don't think all technos need to have Analytical Mind; sure the benefits can be nice, but they aren't needed for all characters.
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Surukai
post Feb 11 2010, 08:08 AM
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If it fits in cybereyes it should fit in goggles at least..

I didn't mean that the codeslinger (etc) positive qualities is an argument by itself for not having focused concentration. I just added that as a little thought. I remain at saying that resonance for fading is the reason.
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DireRadiant
post Feb 11 2010, 02:44 PM
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Why does everything have to be the same?
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Neraph
post Feb 11 2010, 04:35 PM
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QUOTE (Caadium @ Feb 11 2010, 01:59 AM) *
See, I tend to disagree with the microscope. Modern microscopes are bigger than the eyes. The cyber version is an example of tech advancing beyond ours. By its stats it takes 3 capacity (the same as a smartlink), or .2 essence by itself (the same as rating 3 cyber-eyes or retractable hand-razors for comparison). If the same tech that allows for the smartlink modification can be but 1 part of what fits into modified contacts, why wouldn't there be a microscopic version? I honestly think its because Augmentation came out later and they never added it to the normal vision sensor lists.

In that same vein, why is there no "normal" version of Sound Dampers? It only exists as Cyber/Adept.

I'd guess for the same reason, and I usually don't ask questions, I just roll with the rules.
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EKBT81
post Feb 11 2010, 05:26 PM
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QUOTE (Neraph @ Feb 11 2010, 05:35 PM) *
In that same vein, why is there no "normal" version of Sound Dampers? It only exists as Cyber/Adept.

I'd guess for the same reason, and I usually don't ask questions, I just roll with the rules.


The German edition of the SR3 Cannon Companion had electronic earmuffs which were explicitly described as equivalent to the sound damper (and could be fitted with a micro transceiver). However these seem to have been an addition of FanPro Germany. I'd allow a player to add the damper to the headphones in the SR4A BBB, even if it isn't strictly RAW. If you look at present-day products like the Walker's Game Ear, one could also argue for allowing dampers fit in earbuds.
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wind_in_the_ston...
post Feb 12 2010, 03:05 AM
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Could you imagine trying to keep your eye steady enough to look at something microscopic?
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Headshot_Joe
post Feb 12 2010, 06:34 AM
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QUOTE (wind_in_the_stones @ Feb 11 2010, 07:05 PM) *
Could you imagine trying to keep your eye steady enough to look at something microscopic?

This is the future. There must be some sort of more advanced image stabilization, be it optical or digital, than what we have in modern cameras and telescopes. I'm sure it would work for a microscope too, especially an electronically enhanced one in a cyber-eye, or as an add-on to goggles, glasses, or perhaps even contact lenses.
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Da9iel
post Feb 14 2010, 09:23 AM
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Like these?
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Caadium
post Feb 15 2010, 07:24 PM
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QUOTE (wind_in_the_stones @ Feb 11 2010, 07:05 PM) *
Could you imagine trying to keep your eye steady enough to look at something microscopic?


Augmentation, page 38, says, "To magnify an object, it should be within 15 centimeters of the character’s eyes and the character should be able to steady his head (resting it upon his arm, leaning it against a wall or using a small support for his chin and forehead available for 50¥ at every optometrist) to prevent his vision from blurring."

If that is true for a cyber version, why wouldn't there be a modification to goggles or whatnot as well?
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Doc Byte
post Feb 15 2010, 08:10 PM
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QUOTE (Caadium @ Feb 11 2010, 08:22 AM) *
Here are a couple of unrelated things I have noticed are absent from the books. I am wondering if there is a reason that they would have been left out, or were they simply overlooked?


Another question:

3. Why's there no external version of the enhanced rangefinder?
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Trillinon
post Feb 16 2010, 02:01 AM
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I'm sure it's perfectly possible to build goggles with a high power microscope in them, but perhaps nobody makes them because the microscope market is dominated by desktop microscopes that are more stable, can have more or larger lenses, and cost a lot less. It's not like an external microscope can't send the magnified image to your goggles, contacts, or cybereyes. But if you really want to have them, I'm sure there's somebody willing to charge you a premium for some custom goggles.
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