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> Baby, you can drive my car, But can you drive it in AR?
kjones
post Feb 21 2010, 03:27 PM
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Consider your normal, everyday, run-of-the-mill automobile. My understanding is that you usually don't need to actually be touching the wheel in order to drive it - you can drive it through AR by subscribing to the car's node (I remember some book talking about a sort of Chinese fire drill that rich corp kids play where they switch drivers at high velocities) or, if you're in Seattle, you can turn over control to GridGuide. But on your standard, no-frills automobile, can you remote-control it through AR? Does this mean that every car on the road can be hacked?
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Feb 21 2010, 03:36 PM
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It means that most cars on the road can be hacked.
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Neowulf
post Feb 21 2010, 03:42 PM
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Older cars from pre-crash 2.0 should still be around and incapable of remote controlling, particularly the low pilot models.
And I would suspect there to be a couple cars out there with the manual override mod turned on 24x7. Especially ones owned by people who have a vested interest in no one taking their car.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Feb 21 2010, 03:48 PM
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Actually, even the onboard computer of pre-crash vehicles allows for remote control.
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otakusensei
post Feb 21 2010, 04:50 PM
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Also consider safety laws that may require that cars be automated and connected to grid guide. Also that most of the vehicles on the road are paid for and have insurance. You'd be amazed what people forget to do to protect their car IRL because they want convenience and rely on insurance and society to protect them. Also don't underestimate the negligence of community owned and operated vehicles. When something doesn't belong to anyone one person, people have even less of a reason to be careful with it.

In Shadowrun I can't tell you how many times we've stolen a nice low key U-haul type vehicle because the security was crap and it offered the best in cargo area and cover. Sometimes we'd swipe one and load other vehicles in it, or a whole strike team. No questions when the opposition initially see these things, they're ubiquitous. And most corps aren't going to cry over the loss of one van, they just cash in the insurance.

But watch out for the adjusters. Those guys are real bastards.
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Neowulf
post Feb 21 2010, 05:09 PM
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Low pilot models lacked the ability to do anything but provide mapping and route calculation/suggestion. I don't remember anything, rules or fluff, stating a pilot 1 or 2 car could be made to drive itself at all without upping the rating to atleast 3. And weren't there cars with pilots of 0, meaning it lacks any sort of electronic control, in 3 and 2?

Then you could also get really pre-crash, and someone could be driving around a 200x/201x model.



Basically, any car driven by mr wageslave will be hackable. But the people who will be of more interest to a runner will have a chance of having a car you can't hack and take over remotely, even if it's 1 in 1000 has a manual only car.
The moral? Don't rely on hacking cars remotely, the GM has ways to stop you, even if you had Deus as your person hacking AI.
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DireRadiant
post Feb 21 2010, 05:11 PM
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Why wouldn't you use the safety and convenience of ARO assisted driving for billions of kilometers of daily traffic in spite of the occasional mile of Runner Road rage?

Sure for that one vehicle the runners assault, it's a tough day, but all the rest of the commuter corp wage slaves it's really convenient and safe.

After all, there aren't enough runners to Hack every vulnerable vehicle... is there?
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Feb 21 2010, 05:17 PM
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QUOTE (Neowulf @ Feb 21 2010, 07:09 PM) *
I don't remember anything, rules or fluff, stating a pilot 1 or 2 car could be made to drive itself at all without upping the rating to atleast 3.

QUOTE (Shadowrun, Third Edition @ p. 133)
Rating 1 autonav consists of basic radar and ultrasound proximity detectors. Rating 2 autonav is capable of self-navigation and communication with traffic-control grid systems. Ratings 3 and 4 come with GPS systems (see p. 294) and can navigate off-road areas if provided with map chips. Rating 4 systems can also program their own routes.

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Neowulf
post Feb 21 2010, 05:34 PM
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...
Yes you can hack cars remotely, just don't expect it to work 100% of the time on every single solitary vehicle out there.

If every single vehicle on the road is hackable and drivable as long as you can get a signal to it, then why would runners ever enter chase combat?
Someone comming after you? Hack their car and drive it into a wall.
Their car's signal turned off or faraday cage on it? Launch a flying mini drone with camo and a cable tap to get you into it.
Target is fleeing in a '57 charger from his personal collection of restored antique muscle cars? Hack it! If it's on the road and after crash 2.0, it obviously has to have a auto-drive you can hack.
Mil-spec APC with max armor, camo, laser turrets, and pilot 8? Thread exploil to twice resonance, summon an overpowered paladin, and hack it! Then open the doors, fling everyone out, and enjoy your new ride.


If your GM decides it's relevant, there WILL be vehicles you can't hack. Be Prepared.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Feb 21 2010, 05:48 PM
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QUOTE (Neowulf @ Feb 21 2010, 07:34 PM) *
If your GM decides it's relevant, there WILL be vehicles you can't hack.

Thank You, Captain Obvious! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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hobgoblin
post Feb 21 2010, 05:55 PM
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or just mess with the sensors so that vehicle A fails to see vehicle B, and then watch the sparks fly (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Neowulf
post Feb 21 2010, 05:57 PM
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Bah, I'm not Captain Obvious.
Damn name was already taken at the superhero registry, I had to settle for First Lieutenant Obvious...
Though I shouldn't complain, Not as bad as Chief Warrant Officer 4 Obvious. By the time he's done announcing himself the bank robbers are usually in Costa Rica.
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AndyZ
post Feb 22 2010, 03:51 AM
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Remote Control through AR is generally done via the Command program. Checking this program out may answer a lot of your questions.
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Garou
post Feb 22 2010, 02:45 PM
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In my Games, all vehicles that are security level have at least a rigger adaptation OR touchlink. All military actually have BOTH, and the touchlink is programmed to always have priority on commands.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Feb 22 2010, 03:28 PM
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You mean Skinlink.
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Garou
post Feb 22 2010, 04:59 PM
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QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Feb 22 2010, 03:28 PM) *
You mean Skinlink.


Yes i do. Thanks for the correction.
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kjones
post Feb 22 2010, 05:28 PM
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I seem to recall reading somewhere that if a rigger is jumped into a vehicle, that vehicle won't take Commands from anyone else. Is that what the rigger adaptation is for? Or is it just so, you know, a rigger can drive it?
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Aerospider
post Feb 22 2010, 06:56 PM
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QUOTE (kjones @ Feb 22 2010, 05:28 PM) *
I seem to recall reading somewhere that if a rigger is jumped into a vehicle, that vehicle won't take Commands from anyone else. Is that what the rigger adaptation is for? Or is it just so, you know, a rigger can drive it?

It's just so a rigger can pilot it.
Note, it is unnecessary for drones which are designed with the purpose in mind.

It is true, though, that jumping in locks out remote control attempts.
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kjones
post Feb 22 2010, 07:45 PM
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QUOTE (Aerospider @ Feb 22 2010, 01:56 PM) *
It is true, though, that jumping in locks out remote control attempts.


Could you elaborate on that statement, please? If I hack into a drone that is currently piloted by a jumped-in rigger, I can't send false commands to the drone, but I can still kick the rigger out of the node by destroying his icon or something, right?
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KarmaInferno
post Feb 22 2010, 07:46 PM
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It should be possible to set up a fake gridguide box so the system THINKS the car is 'logged in' while on the road, when it reality the car is built so that only the manual controls work for driving, no?



-np
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zzyxzs
post Feb 22 2010, 08:31 PM
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You would think, realistically, that the basic security systems on vehicles would at least require the use of a physical passkey, like your car keys today.
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Professor Evil O...
post Feb 23 2010, 01:13 AM
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QUOTE (kjones @ Feb 21 2010, 07:27 AM) *
Consider your normal, everyday, run-of-the-mill automobile. My understanding is that you usually don't need to actually be touching the wheel in order to drive it - you can drive it through AR by subscribing to the car's node (I remember some book talking about a sort of Chinese fire drill that rich corp kids play where they switch drivers at high velocities) or, if you're in Seattle, you can turn over control to GridGuide. But on your standard, no-frills automobile, can you remote-control it through AR? Does this mean that every car on the road can be hacked?


Yes anything, even vehicles, with wireless connection can be hacked. Of course, this isn't emphasized to the general populace. They just hear the good news - that vehicles can also be overrided by security/law enforcement. Just don't let them know there isn't really a cop watching every stretch of highway. Instead tout things like no more high speed chases on freeways - the cops just subvert the vehicle controls and force it off the road.

Of course, if you've disabled the override system, or disconnected your wireless connection they can't do that, but you can't rig remotely either. That's why it's sometimes a good idea to actually have a rigger/driver in the getaway car.

The down side is that 2070s law probably* requires you to have your vehicle wirelessley enabled at all times, for your own safety of course. You can bet that automated traffic systems are constantly checking for wireless access the same way they watch for people running red lights and driving too fast. So you'd better have a way to spoof the system, or a permit for an older vehicle that can be grandfathered in.

*I'm not aware of a reference to this, but it's how I've run things in my games. It's a lot less safe to just steal any old vehicle for a run this way.
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