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> Your suggestions for Street Sam - 500BP
Cralen
post Feb 21 2010, 07:19 PM
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Any input would be welcomed. I have never played a Street Sam and I have gone through numerous revisions over the last couple of days.

It is a 500 BP game with four players. Game will be players as special unit cops in a mega-sprawl, running from UCAS/CAS border to Corpus Christi. We'll mostly pick our own cases. Mess up and get demoted. Do well and prosper.. professionally, criminally, socially... whatever. Basic cop skills will be added for free if not purchased at a higher value. Pistol, Baton, Knowledge: Law

Usually I go with Adept but we have a player who is playing an Adept who is the "Scout" type. The game will be over the top and we don't have the combat role covered so that is my niche this go around.

Any advice?
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kjones
post Feb 21 2010, 07:36 PM
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QUOTE (Cralen @ Feb 21 2010, 02:19 PM) *
Any input would be welcomed. I have never played a Street Sam and I have gone through numerous revisions over the last couple of days.

It is a 500 BP game with four players. Game will be players as special unit cops in a mega-sprawl, running from UCAS/CAS border to Corpus Christi. We'll mostly pick our own cases. Mess up and get demoted. Do well and prosper.. professionally, criminally, socially... whatever. Basic cop skills will be added for free if not purchased at a higher value. Pistol, Baton, Knowledge: Law

Usually I go with Adept but we have a player who is playing an Adept who is the "Scout" type. The game will be over the top and we don't have the combat role covered so that is my niche this go around.

Any advice?


What kinds of restrictions do you have on your build? (That is, how much can you spend on attributes and gear? I'm guessing 250 and 50, respectively, but that might not be the case. Also, are you bound by the normal availability rules?)

The first big decision is metatype. I'm generally inclined to stick with human for the extra edge.

Gear is very important for a street sam. Get 'ware. Extra IPs are an absolute must - Wired Reflexes are OK but see if you can get your hands on synaptic boosters. Whether or not you want cyberlimbs is really up to you - I am of the opinion that there are more useful things you can spend your Essence and nuyen on, but even I must admit that gyro stabilization (built-in recoil comp, stacks with gas-vent and whatnot) is incredibly useful.

Pick a wide variety of skills. Make sure you pick up Heavy Weapons and Throwing - you'd be amazed at how many people skimp out on those and end up fumbling with an LMG or throwing the pin.

Be a badass. What else is there to say?
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Cralen
post Feb 21 2010, 07:45 PM
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We're going by the book and using half of our build points on Attributes and no more then 50 on Resources. Human you say? I don't like the lowered Agi but I was thinking about Troll for the increased Body.
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Dakka Dakka
post Feb 21 2010, 07:46 PM
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Use 250 BP for normal Attributes.
Ask your GM if you can spend more than 50 BP on Resources. 'Ware isn't that cheap.

You may want to think about buying Heavy MilSpec armor with STR Upgrade, Mobility Upgrade (as needed), Ruthenium Coating etc. thanks to the Restricted Gear quality

Muscle Toner 4 (again with Restricted gear) is a no-brainer IMHO.

I do like the MBW, but this does restrict you to 3IPs at Chargen. It frees up points on Reaction though.

@Recoil Compensation: especially if you use heavy weapons buy a Gyrostabilization Unit (the worn one, not the gyros in cyberarms). With RC5 in the weapon and the harness you can fire full bursts without negative modifiers while running. And you don't even suffer the drawbacks of previous editions.

@Trolls: While they are tough, they are also recognisable large and heavy. This is not always a good thing. Orks are cheaper, less obvious and almost as tough.
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Bugfoxmaster
post Feb 21 2010, 08:31 PM
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I'd say Ork - they're almost as capable in terms of body, cost half as much, and in general are a good choice - I personally back the Synaptic Boosters route rather than MBW, because it's less invasive (less Essence-intense) and while you done get the huge reaction and skillwires, I still think the sacrifice is worth it, for you to be able to fit more random junk into yourself.
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Dakka Dakka
post Feb 21 2010, 09:02 PM
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A valid point, but using an essence hungry piece of initiative enhancement (i.e. cyberware) frees up more essence for nice bioware like synthacardium, suprathyroid gland, Muscle toner/augmentation, orthoskin, bone density augmentation etc.
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Karoline
post Feb 21 2010, 11:15 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Feb 21 2010, 04:02 PM) *
A valid point, but using an essence hungry piece of initiative enhancement (i.e. cyberware) frees up more essence for nice bioware like synthacardium, suprathyroid gland, Muscle toner/augmentation, orthoskin, bone density augmentation etc.


An interesting way to look at it, but true. Since your larger essence is in cyber, it basically cuts the essence cost of all bioware in half.

Edit: Standard limiting to 12 availability too? You should really consider asking the resources to be bumped up to 60 or 75 BP and availability cap up to maybe 16 or so. Otherwise you don't get the power progression that you should with resource intensive builds out of 500 BP (Riggers and hackers especially advance alot more by nuyen expenditure than BP/karma)
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Glyph
post Feb 21 2010, 11:15 PM
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I use synaptic boosters more for adepts, who need to be really Essence-conscious. Street samurai rely on 'ware for everything, so it's not a good idea to blow 160,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) on nothing but a Reaction/initiative enhancement. They also need senseware, Agility and Strength enhancing 'ware, dice pool boosters (such as synthcardium or reflex recorders), and 'ware such as bone lacing, orthoskin, etc. to help them soak damage. For initiative enhancements, I find wired reflexes: 2 (often alphaware) and two levels of reaction enhancers are about the best you can get without using the restricted gear quality.

For 500 points, I would probably be an ork, take the full 250 allowable for Attributes, and 50 for resources. That still leaves 180 points for skills and contacts, enough to be good in combat and a few other areas and know enough useful people (and since they are "legitimate" characters rather than career criminals, they don't need contacts to get jobs, gear, ID, etc. - they will mostly need contacts solely for information gathering).

What books are you using? I ask because there are things in Augmentation and Runner's Companion that aid immeasurably in pimping a street samurai. Mainly the genetic heritage, restricted gear, and born rich qualities.
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Cralen
post Feb 21 2010, 11:16 PM
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I am sorry but what does MBW stand for?
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Dakka Dakka
post Feb 21 2010, 11:18 PM
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Move-by-Wire. The state of the art initiative enhancement&Skillwires&dodge Bonus.
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Karoline
post Feb 21 2010, 11:19 PM
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QUOTE (Cralen @ Feb 21 2010, 06:16 PM) *
I am sorry but what does MBW stand for?


Move-By-Wire. It is in augmentation and is basically Wired reflexes with an extra kick.
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Cralen
post Feb 21 2010, 11:25 PM
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I called the GM and he said that 50 BPs on resources was the max and he was sticking with it. At the moment I only have the main book but I will be picking up the others from my GM.

Unless I am misreading some comments, it seems that for 500BPs and a somewhat limited resources, it seems that Adept might be a better route.
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Karoline
post Feb 21 2010, 11:43 PM
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QUOTE (Cralen @ Feb 21 2010, 06:25 PM) *
I called the GM and he said that 50 BPs on resources was the max and he was sticking with it. At the moment I only have the main book but I will be picking up the others from my GM.

Unless I am misreading some comments, it seems that for 500BPs and a somewhat limited resources, it seems that Adept might be a better route.


Most likely. All the extra BP will make a 5 magic exceedingly easy and a 6 not overly painful. In general mages are going to benefit alot more from the extra BP if resource restrictions aren't lifted at all.
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Glyph
post Feb 21 2010, 11:50 PM
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It depends. I'll give one example:

For a mundane, you will be spending, say, 20 to be an ork, 250 on core Attributes, 40 to soft-max Edge, 50 on resources, and 140 on skills and contacts, assuming that positive and negative qualities are balanced.

For an adept, probably about the same, but you will also be spending 65 points for a Magic of 6, leaving only 75 points for skills and contacts. Since that is not really enough, you will probably have to lower what you spend on Attributes a bit. On the other hand, assuming you get synaptic booster: 2, muscle toner: 4, and two reflex recorders, you will have 4 power points to use to boost this guy up.

So the mundane guy will probably have (for example) wired reflexes (alpha), reaction enhancers: 2, orthoskin: 3, muscle toner: 4, cybereyes with some mods, two reflex recorders, and a bit of other enhancements. So he will have +2 reaction, 3 points of dermal armor, and some enhanced senses compared to the adept - and have 65 more points that he can spend on Attributes, skills, and/or contacts.

So the question is: how do 4 power points compare with all of that? You could get 3 levels of combat sense, 2 levels of improved ability, killing hands, and 4 levels of critical strike, for instance, to make someone who rolls more dice to hit, does more damage, and can hurt things like spirits. The sammie will be more versatile, but the adept will be a better martial artist. Street samurai make better generalists (in the sense of being overall good in combat, rather than the Jack of all trades sense), while adepts make better specialists.
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Udoshi
post Feb 22 2010, 05:39 AM
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Mundage guy? Okay, here you go

Positive Qualities:
Restricted Gear(Move By Wire)
Born Rich 10
Genetic Heritage 10 (Adapsin) Alternatively, Genetic Optimization Reaction or Agility. Its only 1 bp more, and saves that cash from hitting your limit. The sideways Genetic Infusion is also good.
Genecrafted 5
=25 points. 10 left. Options:
Biocompatability for more essence reduction. Black Market Contacts for Implants, which shaves 10% off their cost. More Restricted Gear for a Nanohive or Milspec armor.

This nets you a 20% Cost discount on all genetic treatments, and 20% more on Transgenic EPE's, of which there are some good ones. Because they cost less, you use less of your Cash Limit, and can fit more ware in. You want Synch and Reakt. I'd probably throw in PuSHeD because, with those build points, you might as well snag the cracking group 4 on the cheap.

85000 for the MBW2. 75000, discounted to 45000 for the Genetweaks. 130k nuyen spent, leaving 170000 unspent.

Extra gear:
A Gyroharness - 6 points of recoil comp? Please. Partner that with an Ingram White Knight for a gasvent 5, and you can fullburst all day. Two more points, and you can do it while Running - the gyroharness neutralizes movement penalties too, which is a -2 for running.
Reflex recorders: Dodge
Skillwire expert system. Cheap enough to alphawear.

That's the shortlist. Hope it helps.
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Squinky
post Feb 22 2010, 05:51 AM
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Nanohive doesn't require restricted quality unless you go higher than 2.

Also, it fits well in cyberlimbs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I recommend them all the way.
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Cain
post Feb 22 2010, 06:01 AM
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QUOTE (Udoshi @ Feb 21 2010, 09:39 PM) *
Mundage guy? Okay, here you go

Positive Qualities:
Restricted Gear(Move By Wire)
Born Rich 10
Genetic Heritage 10 (Adapsin) Alternatively, Genetic Optimization Reaction or Agility. Its only 1 bp more, and saves that cash from hitting your limit. The sideways Genetic Infusion is also good.
Genecrafted 5
=25 points. 10 left. Options:
Biocompatability for more essence reduction. Black Market Contacts for Implants, which shaves 10% off their cost. More Restricted Gear for a Nanohive or Milspec armor.

Problem is, he said he only has the core book.

Sticking with that, I personally prefer the Mr. Lucky build: sammie with 8 Edge and 18 dice in Pistols. You've got plenty left over to be decent in the other areas, so you can pick up a social skill or two, as well as rounding out any other areas you might need. Skillwires also help here, although you really need the Skillwire Expert System from Augmentation to compliment the high Edge. Edge doesn't count against the Attribute BP limit, so you'll still have high basic attributes.
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Whipstitch
post Feb 22 2010, 07:01 AM
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Normally I advise against true hard-capping of Edge (or any attribute, for that matter-- Agility and Edge are the only ones I'd even consider) since even 5 or 6 points is usually so powerful that you can afford to grab a whole mess of contacts* and another skill group instead and still have enough exploding dice to be sitting rather pretty in the event of an unforeseen occurrence. But with 500 bps to play with? No objections whatsoever. Go nuts with the Edge.



*I usually try to avoid tacking on a "YMMV" to my posts, but with contacts it's practically mandatory. In my experience no other asset can mean so much or so little depending on the way the GM structures his games.
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Cain
post Feb 22 2010, 08:14 AM
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QUOTE (Whipstitch @ Feb 21 2010, 11:01 PM) *
Normally I advise against true hard-capping of Edge (or any attribute, for that matter-- Agility and Edge are the only ones I'd even consider) since even 5 or 6 points is usually so powerful that you can afford to grab a whole mess of contacts* and another skill group instead and still have enough exploding dice to be sitting rather pretty in the event of an unforeseen occurrence. But with 500 bps to play with? No objections whatsoever. Go nuts with the Edge.



*I usually try to avoid tacking on a "YMMV" to my posts, but with contacts it's practically mandatory. In my experience no other asset can mean so much or so little depending on the way the GM structures his games.

Since he's running a "legit" character, black-market contacts for illegal goods becomes less necessary. He can simply requisition what he needs; no need to go through a fixer or fence contact for specialty ammo or weapons or 'ware. That does free up quite a few points.
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toturi
post Feb 22 2010, 08:25 AM
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Given the quirks of this campaign, Cain, I'd go with Lucky with maxed Longarms, since he is getting Pistols for free. He's a cop, shotguns under the dashboard wouldn't be out of place. In some countries, cops openly walking around with shotguns are commonplace, though I am told European cops tend to favor the SMG.
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Dakka Dakka
post Feb 22 2010, 08:38 AM
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QUOTE (Udoshi @ Feb 22 2010, 06:39 AM) *
Positive Qualities:
Restricted Gear(Move By Wire)
Born Rich 10
Genetic Heritage 10 (Adapsin) Alternatively, Genetic Optimization Reaction or Agility. Its only 1 bp more, and saves that cash from hitting your limit. The sideways Genetic Infusion is also good.
Genecrafted 5
=25 points. 10 left. Options:
Biocompatability for more essence reduction. Black Market Contacts for Implants, which shaves 10% off their cost. More Restricted Gear for a Nanohive or Milspec armor.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

QUOTE (Udoshi @ Feb 22 2010, 06:39 AM) *
Extra gear:
A Gyroharness - 6 points of recoil comp? Please. Partner that with an Ingram White Knight for a gasvent 5, and you can fullburst all day. Two more points, and you can do it while Running - the gyroharness neutralizes movement penalties too, which is a -2 for running.
To do so while running you only need 11 points of Recoil/Movement Compensation: Full Burst -9, Running -2. Two more you would only need if you modded the White Knight to High Velocity. Beats a Minigun everytime IMHO.
QUOTE (Udoshi @ Feb 22 2010, 06:39 AM) *
Skillwire expert system. Cheap enough to alphawear.
I don't think this is useful ware. All it does is allow you to use Edge to re-roll a failed test. No rule of six, no nothing, just another chance. At least that is how I read it.
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Karoline
post Feb 22 2010, 01:38 PM
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QUOTE (Udoshi @ Feb 22 2010, 12:39 AM) *
Genetic Heritage 10 (Adapsin) Alternatively, Genetic Optimization Reaction or Agility. Its only 1 bp more, and saves that cash from hitting your limit. The sideways Genetic Infusion is also good.


Can't get Adapsin with Genetic Heritage. Read the description for Adapsin. Cannot be gotten in CG because it is too new.
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Squinky
post Feb 22 2010, 04:40 PM
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Dakka,

I think only smgs and Assault rifles can be hypervelocity. Which is frustrating since they left out the mod for the miniguns.

Also, I thought on Black market pipeline last night. It seems like a clever idea for a min maxer, but truthfully its a 10 point quality that nets you up to or around 5 points in nuyen at chargen. Now, after chargen it could save you some cash.
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Dakka Dakka
post Feb 22 2010, 05:09 PM
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QUOTE (Squinky @ Feb 22 2010, 05:40 PM) *
I think only smgs and Assault rifles can be hypervelocity. Which is frustrating since they left out the mod for the miniguns.

Right, I forgot about that. Still I prefer a weapon that can fire right away over a potentially more damaging one that needs a simple action to get to speed. being able to use short and long bursts in addition to full bursts is another plus.

Hmm, HV Ares Alpha +GV3(Accessory)+Personalized Grip+Heavy Barrel+ Gyrostabilization Unit Interesting Weapons plattform, if you have both skills to operate it.
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Cralen
post Feb 22 2010, 06:24 PM
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I picked up my copies of Augmentation and Arsonal today and will work out a rough draft and post it here. Thank you for all the helpful advice so far.
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