Movement speeds, I guess that's why they call them RUNNERS Options

[kjones]

The average, un-augmented human can move 10 meters per round if walking, or 25 meters per round (minimum) when running. That's about 12 kph (7.5 mph) or 30 kph (18.5 mph) respectively.

In both cases, this is really fast. I realize that walking speed isn't a causal stroll, but for me (I went and timed this) moving at that speed is more of a medium jog. And 30 kph is faster than I am physically capable of moving - perhaps this reflects more on my physical abilities than on the rules, and I'm no sprinter, but again, that's the baseline number.

So, are 'runners faster than normal people, do people walk faster in the future, or are the rules just wonky?

[DireRadiant]

Did you notice they all move at the same speeds? Or in 6 increments of speed... And did you see what happens when you add athletics skill checks in? And what happens when you start getting magic effects and cyberware added?

All I care about is if X is faster then Y, and that neither can outrun bullets.

For real World modeling of people running... I would use the real world, but that's not where I play Shadowrun.

Why does a world filled with magic and incredible technology and Dragons need to have to have running speeds modeled on your personal time measurements?

[Karoline]

So, are 'runners faster than normal people, do people walk faster in the future, or are the rules just wonky?

I would guess it is a combination of the two. Given all the augmentations available, and the fact that health in general increases with time due to medical advances, I could see the average person in 2072 walking slightly (though perhaps not generally noticeably faster) than a person of today. It could also be an asumption of people are walking in very purposeful manner. Taking long, quick strides can make you move faster than you might think.

I think there is also a small wonkyness of the rules. I'm guessing they decided to round up from 8.X m/s in order to make it easy to remember that humans (the baseline) move at a nice round 10m/turn walking and 25m/turn running.

[Muspellsheimr]

The movement speeds in Shadowrun are fucked up. It's a low priority, however, compared to a number of other issues with the game.


Average human walking speed is 4.5-4.75 km/h, while the fastest running rate (100m dash by Bolt) recorded is 37.58 km/h (rounded to 2 decimals).

Keep in mind that with the rules for sprinting, even unaugmented individuals can easily equal or exceed Bolts record.



If it is a significant issue for you, the simplest "effective" solution would be to cut movement rates by half (including sprinting).

[D2F]

I'm guessing they decided to round up from 8.X m/s in order to make it easy to remember that humans (the baseline) move at a nice round 10m/turn walking and 25m/turn running.

That is most probably exactly why they did it.

[Warlordtheft]

I'd call it combat movement and leave it at that. If some one tried to run or walk at those speeds for an hour, I'd go by a different rate.

[Muspellsheimr]

That is most probably exactly why they did it.

Except a base walking rate of 5m per turn is still higher than normal human walking rate, while at least being believable. So I doubt it.

[Karoline]

Except a base walking rate of 5m per turn is still higher than normal human walking rate, while at least being believable. So I doubt it.

6KPH vs your number of 4.75KPH?

I don't have any problems envisioning 'walking' rating during combat as being at least a light job, which easily accounts for the fairly small difference.

So yeah, if you want more realism, go ahead and halve all movement speeds. Do keep in mind that this will make melee combatants much weaker because it will take them twice as long to close in on enemies.

[D2F]

Except a base walking rate of 5m per turn is still higher than normal human walking rate, while at least being believable. So I doubt it.

5m/ct is pretty much exactly regular walking speed. (that's 6kph, which means 10m walking time per 1,000m, which is roughly the same time I need to get to my university, which happens to be roughly 1km away from my house).

Using 5m/ct as a base has some other problem, though: you cannot easily adjust for other metavariants, without leaving the 5 step increment area.

Of they could either not give a damn about it in the first place (also, likely), or they were too stupid to calculate the proper m/ct walking speed for a 3s combat turn (highly unlikely). In the end, though: does it matter?

[kjones]

I don't really care, one way or another - as DireRadiant said, I have no trouble with dragons and magic, so it's not a realism thing. I just hadn't thought about it until recently, when I actually did the math, and realized that it seemed a little strange.

It's not a big deal, it's just another way the world of Shadowrun is different from ours. Think of it this way - what if, in Shadowrun, the average height of a human was 3 meters, instead of whatever it is now? You'd have to change the way you thought about some things - buildings would be taller, vehicles would be bigger, crawling around in ventilation shafts would be harder - but it's not really a big deal, it's just different.

It's the same with movement speed. Say you're designing a prison, and you want to know how far apart to space the inner and outer perimeter. In real life, you might decide to put them 25m apart - in SR, you'd need more of a buffer to buy your guards the same amount of time.

It just requires a bit of perspective change, that's all. I'm not going to houserule it, for convenience as much as anything else. (Which I suspect is the real-life justification for these numbers. Was it different in previous editions?)

[JoelHalpern]

Is the confused walking and running rate a big issue? No.
But it is annoying. For me, very annoying.
For example, it means that when you say that the corp guards are about a block away, people's gut feel for how much time that means is simply completely wrong. The guards can cover that block in half the time you would expect, or even less.

One of the reasons I like using our world as a base for things is that it means we have reasoanble understandings of what fast, slow, big small, etc mean. This distorts taht.

can I cope? Yes. Mostly by just not being precise about where things are.

Yours,
Joel

[Dixie Flatline]

Is the confused walking and running rate a big issue? No.
But it is annoying. For me, very annoying.
For example, it means that when you say that the corp guards are about a block away, people's gut feel for how much time that means is simply completely wrong. The guards can cover that block in half the time you would expect, or even less.

One of the reasons I like using our world as a base for things is that it means we have reasoanble understandings of what fast, slow, big small, etc mean. This distorts taht.

can I cope? Yes. Mostly by just not being precise about where things are.

Yours,
Joel

"How far away are the guards?"

"About a block away"

"How long before they get into short-range combat?"

"Maybe 3-5 combat turns if they haul ass"

Seems simple enough for me. Usually I give actual numerical distances... "A hundred meters" instead of "oh about a block" if I want them to take 3 turns to get into combat. I'll ballpark it otherwise and fudge. In the middle of a firefight, nobody's mentally ticking off exact distances while getting shot. In fact, if someone *does* want to know this, they have to spend a turn contemplating it. Most of the time my players are willing to take ballpark figures.

[Larsine]

Was it different in previous editions?

Everything was different in previous editions. In SR1 you could at most get 4 actions in a turn. In SR2 and SR3 there was no cap on the number of actions you could get, it all depended on how high you could roll on your Initiative test.

Also there was nu cap on your skill ratings, it all depended on how much Karna you would spend on increasing the skill.

If you don't know anything about the SR1-3 rules, then I guess it doesn't make much sense.

SR1 page 64:

On any action, a character gets to move a number of meters equal to his quickness.
Instead of a normal move, a character can run. A character with multiple actions can run only once in a turn, but he can squeeze out some more meters with regular movement. A character cannot combine running with other actions. When running, multiply movement by the run modifier for the character's race, per the following table.
RUNNING TABLE
Race Modifiers
Human x4
Dwarf x3
Elf x4
Ork x4
Troll x3

SR1 also had the Athletics skill with a Running concentration, but no rules for how to use the skill.

SR2 page 83:

When walking, characters may move at a pace equal to their Quickness rating in meters during that Combat Phase.
Characters who are running may move a number of meters equal to their Quickness Rating multiplied by the appropriate running modifier from the table below. The result is in meters per Combat Phase.
Characters with Running Skill may attempt to increase their running distance by spending a Complex Action (Use Skill). Each success against a Target Number 4 increases the character's effective Quickness by 1 point for that Combat Phase.
RUNNING TABLE
Race Modifier
Human x3
Dwarf x2
Elf x3
Ork x3
Troll x2

SR3 page 108 basically had the same rules as SR2, but the table was changed:

RUNNING TABLE
Race Running Modifier
Human x3
Dwarf x2
Elf x3
Ork x3
Troll x3

You do the math to compare to Real Life.

Lars

[Hagga]

The average, un-augmented human can move 10 meters per round if walking, or 25 meters per round (minimum) when running. That's about 12 kph (7.5 mph) or 30 kph (18.5 mph) respectively.

In both cases, this is really fast. I realize that walking speed isn't a causal stroll, but for me (I went and timed this) moving at that speed is more of a medium jog. And 30 kph is faster than I am physically capable of moving - perhaps this reflects more on my physical abilities than on the rules, and I'm no sprinter, but again, that's the baseline number.

So, are 'runners faster than normal people, do people walk faster in the future, or are the rules just wonky?

Wonky. Running speed is a function of your weight and the strength of your legs and hips. Most people can hold a 15km/h pace, which is 12.5 metres a turning, with a bit of training. Beyond that (as a rough number) you start to run into problems.

[Warlordtheft]

I'll spare the math, but the human running speed of 25m per combat turn is:

13% slower than the current 60m world record.
25% slower than the current 100m and 200m world records.
11% slower than the current 400m world record.

From this point of view, it might make the spead seem more realistic. But then what is your average human speed?

I think these speeds seem reasonable from this perspective, if you want to keep the game mechanics down.

[Creel]

Keep in mind that in general runners are going to be more athletically inclined. even the mages and hackers know the value of being able to run away. Also, as has been stated, the speeds are on the upper end of average but they aren't at all extraordinary. 10Ks are routinely run in under an hour, and sprinters have been known to run more than 40kph in the 100m.

[X-Kalibur]

SR3 Elves with jacked up quickness and cyber skates could move faster than cars, couldn't they?

Something to the effect of 9quick x4 for skates x3 if you made a "running" action, yes? SR2 and 3 materials are at my GMs house, so no reference on hand if I'm totally off.

[pbangarth]

Years ago, I lived 6 miles (9.6 and-a-bit km) from my girlfriend's place. I walked it in an hour. But I was ... motivated.

[Karoline]

Years ago, I lived 6 miles (9.6 and-a-bit km) from my girlfriend's place. I walked it in an hour. But I was ... motivated.

And runners are motivated to not get hit with bullets. I think it works out reasonably well. A small compromise between real world movement rates and convince. Maybe they would be more accurate with 9m/ct and 23m/ct, but that's harder to remember. Just roll with it, and if it bugs you, remember that your character can throw a car and shoot the wings off a fly without killing the fly.

[hobgoblin]

as these numbers are mostly about "can i make it to the nearest cover?" then "can i set a new world record on the 100 meter sprint?" i suspect they are "close enough".

[Axl]

Way too much analysis of a trivial matter. If this rule is seriously bothering you, you need to get a job as an accountant or a rocket scientist.

[Karoline]

Way too much analysis of a trivial matter. If this rule is seriously bothering you, you need to get a job as an accountant or a rocket scientist.

Nah, rocket scientists aren't allowed to convert units, remember?

[cndblank]

Motivations (both positive and negative) works wonders. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I'd write it off to that.


Now I'm wondering how fast security guards would run towards a disturbance.

Seems to be me they would be worried about an ambush or a diversion.

Or as the saying goes, people always run faster going away from the sound of gun fire than going towards it.



SR4 is pretty generous to running targets.

I mean Partial Cover is +2 defense and gives you a -2 to hit for firing from Cover.
Running is +2 defense and gives you a -2 to hit for firing while running.

But I guess if you take aimed shots, suppression fire, and just the ability to drop out of sight, it is not that bad.

[Dakka Dakka]

I'll spare the math, but the human running speed of 25m per combat turn is:

13% slower than the current 60m world record.
25% slower than the current 100m and 200m world records.
11% slower than the current 400m world record.

This is what a human can run, while firing a gun(at -2), or doing whatever he wishes. Dedicated Sprinting is considerably faster, if you are talking about athletes. Joe Average won't be much quicker, but with a high STR and Running you will easily beat the world records. And I'm not talking about Augmentation yet.

Nah, rocket scientists aren't allowed to convert units, remember?

Lol

[Saint Sithney]

Strangely, the term "jogging" is used only in the Fatigue Damage section of the Core book. I suppose that is what they consider the "base run rate" of 25m/3s? I'd probably rate a jog as about 15m/3s.

Something that always struck me as dumb is how skimmer disks double movement rate. How is a troll going to glide faster than anyone else?