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> Nanotattoos, And degredation
Teryn180
post Feb 27 2010, 07:27 AM
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So under RAW, from my best understanding. If I get a nanotattoo, especially at Rating 1, I'd have to go in every week to get it touched up, because of the 'transient nature' of Nanoware. Now, I could just get a nanohive, but assume, for the sake of the argument I can't for some reason. Now, I can understand if you have a Nanotat on your arm, and you get cut/shot/whatever, it's going to look bad until you heal and get it touched up. But why would, especially IC, anyone who designed Nanoware develop a high-tech tattoo like that, but that gets ugly after a couple weeks?

Is this just the kinda thing that needs to have some kind of house rule for it?
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Manunancy
post Feb 27 2010, 08:49 AM
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What do you prefer : a one-shot cash infusion or a steady revenue stream ? From a business sandpoint, the need to tune up the tatoo is god.

Commerce isn't about serving the customer, its about milking as much money as possible out of him. Serving him is a mean to that end, not an end in itself.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Feb 27 2010, 09:26 AM
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Seriously, those rules look like they were never playtested - they simply don't add up to something working.
QUOTE (Teryn180 @ Feb 27 2010, 09:27 AM) *
Is this just the kinda thing that needs to have some kind of house rule for it?

Houserule for degradation in general:
Time: 1 point per month
Injuries: none
Nanohives: stops Time, regenerates 1 point per day

There is no point in getting the TCS otherwise, and Nantidote or Nanite Hunters never recover.
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Karoline
post Feb 27 2010, 07:28 PM
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QUOTE (Manunancy @ Feb 27 2010, 03:49 AM) *
What do you prefer : a one-shot cash infusion or a steady revenue stream ? From a business sandpoint, the need to tune up the tatoo is god.

Commerce isn't about serving the customer, its about milking as much money as possible out of him. Serving him is a mean to that end, not an end in itself.


Agreed. Companies have no reason whatsoever to give you a product of any kind that would last forever. Imagine if Honda came out with a car that never needed to be repaired and would never break down? They'd instantly put every mechanic out of business, and while their sales would be great until everyone owned one, after that they'd dry up considerably. Also, since I assume they own a large number of the mechanic shops themselves, they'd really be shooting themselves in the foot.

Same for nanotattoos. The companies that make them would just be cutting into their own profits if they found a way to make them permanent or last (alot) longer.

QUOTE
Houserule for degradation in general:
Time: 1 point per month
Injuries: none
Nanohives: stops Time, regenerates 1 point per day

There is no point in getting the TCS otherwise, and Nantidote or Nanite Hunters never recover.


Not true. TCS and other healing nanites would be inactive and somewhere safe when you don't need them, and so wouldn't bleed out of an injury because the injury would happen before they were in danger. And as things stand, the nanohive already regenerates nanoware, so Nantidote and Nanite Hunters do recover, but I think the rate is a painfully slow 1/week.

What you've suggested is already an optional rule in the book to increase the appeal of nanoware by increasing the degradation time, and improving the regeneration time via nanohives.

As for the OP, yeah, they are kind of expensive, but they are bling like gold chains and such. Sure, you've dropped a ton of cred on something that won't ever actually give you any direct advantage, but people are going to look at you different. Having a dragon tattoo that literally crawls around your body is going to garner way more 'respect' and 'cred' than a regular tattoo, both because it is awesome and is 'proof' that you are rich.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Feb 27 2010, 07:42 PM
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QUOTE (Karoline @ Feb 27 2010, 09:28 PM) *
TCS and other healing nanites would be inactive and somewhere safe when you don't need them, and so wouldn't bleed out of an injury because the injury would happen before they were in danger.

That's one way to read it, sure.
QUOTE (Karoline @ Feb 27 2010, 09:28 PM) *
What you've suggested is already an optional rule in the book to increase the appeal of nanoware by increasing the degradation time, and improving the regeneration time via nanohives.

The rule tweaks are more like houserule suggestions than optional rules. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

And no, it' not - those only suggest making Nanoware even crappier.
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Daylen
post Feb 27 2010, 11:24 PM
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QUOTE (Karoline @ Feb 27 2010, 07:28 PM) *
Imagine if Honda came out with a car that never needed to be repaired and would never break down? They'd instantly put every mechanic out of business, and while their sales would be great until everyone owned one, after that they'd dry up considerably. Also, since I assume they own a large number of the mechanic shops themselves, they'd really be shooting themselves in the foot.


bulldreck.

many many people get rid of their vehicles after 50k or 100k miles. Not much has started to wear out at that point. People will buy new cars as often as they want a new one and can afford a new one. also the fact that vehicles can reguraly get to 300k miles and beyond and there are still plenty of mechanic shops and plenty of auto makers. quality products being bad for business is progressive marxist bs.
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Karoline
post Feb 27 2010, 11:59 PM
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QUOTE (Daylen @ Feb 27 2010, 06:24 PM) *
bulldreck.

many many people get rid of their vehicles after 50k or 100k miles. Not much has started to wear out at that point. People will buy new cars as often as they want a new one and can afford a new one. also the fact that vehicles can reguraly get to 300k miles and beyond and there are still plenty of mechanic shops and plenty of auto makers. quality products being bad for business is progressive marxist bs.


Sure, you just keep believing that having a product that never broke, needed fixing, or needed replacing, would be desirable to a businessman in the long term.

You are right though, people do tend to trade up their car for the latest and greatest before it starts to break down, but that isn't just because they must have the newest shiniest toy out there (Though this is for some people) it is also because it is right at the point where they can still get a good price for selling the old one, and haven't had to pay to repair anything yet, and thus get rid of it before those costs start cropping up.

If the cars lasted forever though, there would be no desire to get rid of it before it started to break, and the second hand market would quickly be so overflooded that they wouldn't be able to sell their old car to anyone, because everyone would already have one that worked perfectly because they all work perfectly all the time. I mean, maybe cars would then move into something like the fashion industry where they don't sell you something that is better in any way shape or form, but something that is simply different, and is declared to be 'fashionable' by some people. Still, with a price tag of 30k instead of 300, I think it would be much harder to push car fashion onto the masses.
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zergloli
post Feb 28 2010, 02:25 AM
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I've been thinking about getting some kind of nano-stuff for disguise purpose. Would the tattoos work in that capacity, or should I go for something else?
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Karoline
post Feb 28 2010, 02:29 AM
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QUOTE (zergloli @ Feb 27 2010, 09:25 PM) *
I've been thinking about getting some kind of nano-stuff for disguise purpose. Would the tattoos work in that capacity, or should I go for something else?


Rating 3 nannotattoos are sophisticated enough to replicate chameleon suits, so I'd imagine they could convincingly change your skin to any color you wish, as well as add fake shadows and such to make your face seem slightly thinner or fatter or your cheeks hollow. Basically I'd imagine you could do anything with them that you could do with makeup at the very least.
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zergloli
post Feb 28 2010, 02:32 AM
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QUOTE (Karoline @ Feb 27 2010, 09:29 PM) *
Rating 3 nannotattoos are sophisticated enough to replicate chameleon suits, so I'd imagine they could convincingly change your skin to any color you wish, as well as add fake shadows and such to make your face seem slightly thinner or fatter or your cheeks hollow. Basically I'd imagine you could do anything with them that you could do with makeup at the very least.
All I really want is to go from being a guy who has blatant, distracting facial tattoos (when on a criminal run) to being a guy who looks clean & trustworthy. Anything beyond that is delicious gravy.

Thanks!
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Karoline
post Feb 28 2010, 02:35 AM
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QUOTE (zergloli @ Feb 27 2010, 09:32 PM) *
All I really want is to go from being a guy who has blatant, distracting facial tattoos (when on a criminal run) to being a guy who looks clean & trustworthy. Anything beyond that is delicious gravy.

Thanks!


Oh, yeah, that'd take about half a second and a rating 1 nanotattoo.
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Teryn180
post Feb 28 2010, 06:44 AM
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I'm not saying it should never degrade, sorry if it sounded like that. I'm just saying that a week seems like a little much. There's a fine line between having something need regular maintenance to keep it working good, and something that needs maintenance so often that it's not worth having, and loosing a rating point every week, at least to me, seems to be on the more-trouble-then-it's-worth side of the line.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Feb 28 2010, 10:55 AM
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QUOTE (zergloli @ Feb 28 2010, 04:25 AM) *
I've been thinking about getting some kind of nano-stuff for disguise purpose. Would the tattoos work in that capacity, or should I go for something else?

Color? Nanotattoos are the way to go.

Shape? That's why I created the Facial Template Nanocybernetic.
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Daylen
post Feb 28 2010, 02:32 PM
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like with any business as long as there is competition companies will have to deliver a better product. part of that is making products that last longer and need less service and are cheaper; yes this looks like it has the potential to hurt an industry, but only in an otherwise static world. with the price on nanotatoos as it is I expect not many would get them, too pricy. Now if they were made cheaper or more durable the maket would expand as more people would spend money on them.

However, without getting a nanite factory installed there is a big technical hurdle to get past on making nanomachines last longer in the body; Your body destroys them and filters them out as they would viruses, toxins, vitamens and just plain foreign matter. Also, consider how long nanites have been availible on the market, since early 2060s? at best late 2050s? so in cars we would be in http://americas-classic-cars.com/Year/1910.htm . in high tech military aircraft it would be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Boeing_FB-5(2).jpg .

Also, cyber and kinda bioware is the common tech, SR I think is still supposed to be a cyberpunk setting not an RPG of the neutronium alchemist.
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hobgoblin
post Feb 28 2010, 02:54 PM
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QUOTE (Karoline @ Feb 28 2010, 12:59 AM) *
I mean, maybe cars would then move into something like the fashion industry where they don't sell you something that is better in any way shape or form, but something that is simply different, and is declared to be 'fashionable' by some people. Still, with a price tag of 30k instead of 300, I think it would be much harder to push car fashion onto the masses.

i would say that cars have already become fashion...
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Feb 28 2010, 03:36 PM
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QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Feb 28 2010, 07:54 AM) *
i would say that cars have already become fashion...



That is a funny concept for me... Cars are tools, I could care less what they actually look like, and Would never spend crazy amounts of money for a "Fashion" vehicle...

Now, that being said, I might change my mind if I had Millions of dollars to flitter about with... Afterall, I have always wanted a Rolls Royce Phantom II...

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Daylen
post Feb 28 2010, 03:51 PM
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30-40k hybrid cars are fashion statements. many people buy them.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Feb 28 2010, 03:54 PM
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QUOTE (Daylen @ Feb 28 2010, 08:51 AM) *
30-40k hybrid cars are fashion statements. many people buy them.



Indeed, but I am not one of them...

And I would call them more Status Symbols ("Look at me, I am so Green") rather than Fashion Statements

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hobgoblin
post Feb 28 2010, 03:54 PM
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fashion statements, status symbols, is there really a diff?
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Feb 28 2010, 03:55 PM
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QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Feb 28 2010, 08:54 AM) *
fashion statements, status symbols, is there really a diff?



In the long term... Probably not...

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Daylen
post Feb 28 2010, 04:07 PM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Feb 28 2010, 03:54 PM) *
Indeed, but I am not one of them...



I would not insult you by assuming you were. I like to try and see how many miles I can put on a truck before getting a new one.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Feb 28 2010, 04:10 PM
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QUOTE (Daylen @ Feb 28 2010, 09:07 AM) *
I would not insult you by assuming you were. I like to try and see how many miles I can put on a truck before getting a new one.


Most definitely... and then I tend to buy another used one after that point...

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Draco18s
post Feb 28 2010, 04:22 PM
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QUOTE (Daylen @ Feb 28 2010, 11:07 AM) *
I would not insult you by assuming you were. I like to try and see how many miles I can put on a truck before getting a new one.


The honda I grew up in (and eventually drove for a while) is still running and humming along fine post 300k.
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Daylen
post Feb 28 2010, 04:28 PM
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unfortunetly I dont usually see what I want in a truck as used. I can only assume people that buy the simplest trucks dont sell them for used after a year or so, they are probably gona be used by the same owner for 10+ years.
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Daylen
post Feb 28 2010, 04:32 PM
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I just wish my addiction to walnut dressed high pressure tubes was less expensive, least they last many lifetimes.
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