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> Wild Card Nano Prototype, What is it good for?
zergloli
post Feb 28 2010, 05:12 AM
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The limits of this Quality elude me.

Can you use it (+ a Nanohive) to manufacture weaponized nanites?
Can you manufacture construction nanites?
Are you limited to defensive stuff?
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Squinky
post Feb 28 2010, 06:54 AM
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Essentially, hard nanites normally can be reprogrammed to do other tasks, and lose some strength in the process.

With this quality, you can reprogram them and not lower their rating. Thats about it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Thats said, I'm pretty sure you can reprogram them into any nanite system, given enough time.
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Jaid
post Feb 28 2010, 08:35 AM
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QUOTE (Squinky @ Feb 28 2010, 01:54 AM) *
Essentially, hard nanites normally can be reprogrammed to do other tasks, and lose some strength in the process.

With this quality, you can reprogram them and not lower their rating. Thats about it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Thats said, I'm pretty sure you can reprogram them into any nanite system, given enough time.


actually, you'd be much better off buying a rating 6 hard implant medic nanosystem for a set of protective eye covers (technically, this will cost you 5 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) , but i'll assume that by 5% of the implant cost they meant 5% per rating point, making it 30 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ) which you can then reprogram into a rating 2-4 nanite system of your choice, GM's discretion (which, if your GM actually lets you pull this off, could wind up being rating 20-40 because clearly your GM has no spine to speak of)

note that if you try this, you will want to wear a hard hat and steel toe boots to the gaming session. probably a jockstrap wouldn't be a bad idea either. because your GM will most likely want to hurt you.

(note: i would suggest the universal nantidote option at rating 9 and costing 22,500 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) but you're limited to rating 6 in chargen anyways, so you may as well go with the cheapest nanites you can find; after all, any GM who's actually going to allow you to pull this stunt isn't exactly the sort of GM who restricts things at his/her table)
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Feb 28 2010, 03:44 PM
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QUOTE (Jaid @ Feb 28 2010, 01:35 AM) *
actually, you'd be much better off buying a rating 6 hard implant medic nanosystem for a set of protective eye covers (technically, this will cost you 5 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) , but i'll assume that by 5% of the implant cost they meant 5% per rating point, making it 30 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ) which you can then reprogram into a rating 2-4 nanite system of your choice, GM's discretion (which, if your GM actually lets you pull this off, could wind up being rating 20-40 because clearly your GM has no spine to speak of)

note that if you try this, you will want to wear a hard hat and steel toe boots to the gaming session. probably a jockstrap wouldn't be a bad idea either. because your GM will most likely want to hurt you.

(note: i would suggest the universal nantidote option at rating 9 and costing 22,500 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) but you're limited to rating 6 in chargen anyways, so you may as well go with the cheapest nanites you can find; after all, any GM who's actually going to allow you to pull this stunt isn't exactly the sort of GM who restricts things at his/her table)



Actually, it does not quite work that way... The Wild Card Prototype is a Hard Nanite System (supportable by a Hive) that can be ANY Hard Nanite System rated at 3... It will always be rated 3, you cannot reprogram them to be any higher than that. The benefit is that you just need to feed the hive its feed stock, and you will always have a rating 3 "Whatever" that you choose to program it with... now, if you think about it, you have already paid out the 150,000 Nuyen (30 BP) to have such a device, so the GM should not really care what rating 3 system you have at any given time.

Of course you are going to want to be able to program it yourself, otherwise you will be spending even more nuyen to do so...

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The Jake
post Mar 1 2010, 12:01 AM
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What sucks is you need a very limited use Knowledge Skill to make the changes needed.

Very costly, very useful but also very, very situational.

- J.
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Karoline
post Mar 1 2010, 12:10 AM
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QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Feb 28 2010, 10:44 AM) *
Actually, it does not quite work that way... The Wild Card Prototype is a Hard Nanite System (supportable by a Hive) that can be ANY Hard Nanite System rated at 3... It will always be rated 3, you cannot reprogram them to be any higher than that. The benefit is that you just need to feed the hive its feed stock, and you will always have a rating 3 "Whatever" that you choose to program it with... now, if you think about it, you have already paid out the 150,000 Nuyen (30 BP) to have such a device, so the GM should not really care what rating 3 system you have at any given time.

Of course you are going to want to be able to program it yourself, otherwise you will be spending even more nuyen to do so...

Keep the Faith


What Jaid was talking about was the fact that you can do this with any hard nanite system, only with other kinds it is its normal rating-2 for the new rating. A rating 6 hard nanite is potentially very cheap (Far less than 30 BP), and can then be turned into a rating 4 anything. Essentially it is cheaper and works better. And out of chargen you can grab rating 9 hard nanites which can then turn themselves into rating 7 anything.

Basically the way the rules are set up, the wild card prototype is utterly worthless, other than the fact that the GM isn't going to be annoyed at you using that, but likely will be if you turn your rating 9 nantidotes into rating 7 whatever you wants.
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zergloli
post Mar 1 2010, 12:13 AM
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QUOTE (Karoline @ Feb 28 2010, 07:10 PM) *
Basically the way the rules are set up, the wild card prototype is utterly worthless, other than the fact that the GM isn't going to be annoyed at you using that, but likely will be if you turn your rating 9 nantidotes into rating 7 whatever you wants.
Agreed, unfortunately.

My first time through the rules, I missed that you can only make "internal" systems of rating 3.

So yeah: Wild Card Prototype sucks utterly. Very sad, it would have been a cool concept.

Thanks everyone.
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Squinky
post Mar 1 2010, 12:23 AM
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Something I have wondered.

If you have a nanohive, and have it set up to produce nantidotes or whatever, could you use it on others instead of yourself? Just leave it pooled up in your hive and inject it somehow?

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zergloli
post Mar 1 2010, 12:28 AM
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QUOTE (Squinky @ Feb 28 2010, 07:23 PM) *
Something I have wondered.

If you have a nanohive, and have it set up to produce nantidotes or whatever, could you use it on others instead of yourself? Just leave it pooled up in your hive and inject it somehow?
I'd assume you need some kind of injector system, plus the cost of whatever nanites you want to inject. But once you've paid for the nanites & the delivery system, I think you're free to use dormant nanites on yourself or anyone else.
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Daylen
post Mar 1 2010, 12:31 AM
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or do such for cutters and have some real fun...
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Draco18s
post Mar 1 2010, 01:28 AM
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QUOTE (Daylen @ Feb 28 2010, 07:31 PM) *
or do such for cutters and have some real fun...


Nanohive + Cutter Nanites + cyberspurs = deadly fun.
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Karoline
post Mar 1 2010, 01:50 AM
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QUOTE (Draco18s @ Feb 28 2010, 08:28 PM) *
Nanohive + Cutter Nanites + cyberspurs = deadly fun.


How do you get them onto the spurs though? I don't know that they're properly designed and programed to run up your arm, crawl onto your spur, and wait for you to hit someone with them.
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Squinky
post Mar 1 2010, 01:57 AM
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I personally was considering if a person could have the hive not connected to his system at all. Like a cyber-arm nano-hive equipped to run a line directly to spurs, or a modified autoinjector or something. My intent was to be able to dose someone up with nana symbiotes or nantidotes.

I could see it though.

One thing I wonder though, it reads that you can change the nanoware, and that nano hives support nanoware. I don't think nano weaponry was meant to be supported or altered by a nanohive. If it was, then can we support nanotech or other nano gear with the hive?
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The Jake
post Mar 1 2010, 02:56 AM
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By RAW yes, you can use the wild card prototype to create literally any form of hard nanites from nanosymbiotes to cutters.

As to how it works with spurs, the precident already exists - albeit through liberal application of handwavium.

- J.
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Karoline
post Mar 1 2010, 03:02 AM
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QUOTE (The Jake @ Feb 28 2010, 09:56 PM) *
albeit through liberal application of handwavium.


SR4A + supplements, now with 38% more handwavium!
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Squinky
post Mar 1 2010, 03:18 AM
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QUOTE (The Jake @ Feb 28 2010, 10:56 PM) *
By RAW yes, you can use the wild card prototype to create literally any form of hard nanites from nanosymbiotes to cutters.

As to how it works with spurs, the precident already exists - albeit through liberal application of handwavium.

- J.


Yep, it even states so in the description. Wow, suddenly nanoware seems pretty cool.

With this thought process, could a cyberlimbed character produce altskin for his limb in the same manner?
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Draco18s
post Mar 1 2010, 03:30 AM
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QUOTE (Squinky @ Feb 28 2010, 08:57 PM) *
I personally was considering if a person could have the hive not connected to his system at all. Like a cyber-arm nano-hive equipped to run a line directly to spurs, or a modified autoinjector or something. My intent was to be able to dose someone up with nana symbiotes or nantidotes.


That's how my friend would have done it. The hive in a cyberarm that just put the nanites on his cyberspur.
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zergloli
post Mar 1 2010, 03:40 AM
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QUOTE (The Jake @ Feb 28 2010, 09:56 PM) *
By RAW yes, you can use the wild card prototype to create literally any form of hard nanites from nanosymbiotes to cutters.
Really? Huh. Here's what Augmentation says (p.20-21):

QUOTE
Wild Card is a Rating 3 non-specialized nanoware system (p. 108) that can be reprogrammed to perform as any internal nanoware systems also at Rating 3 (circumventing the normal limitations on reprogramming hard nanites).
(emphasis mine)

I figured the limitation ("any internal nanoware systems") precluded weapons, unless of course you were using them on yourself... which would be of limited utility.
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Squinky
post Mar 1 2010, 03:56 AM
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Page 107 augmentation, under reprogramming nanites. Right at the end it uses the example of changing oxyrush to cutters.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Mar 1 2010, 04:01 AM
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As odd as this is going to sound, though, the vast majority of Nanites are "Internal" in nature... even the weaponized ones tend to work "Internally" as opposed to "Externally."

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zergloli
post Mar 1 2010, 04:34 AM
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QUOTE (Squinky @ Feb 28 2010, 10:56 PM) *
Page 107 augmentation, under reprogramming nanites. Right at the end it uses the example of changing oxyrush to cutters.
Nobody doubts you can change a normal Hard nanite system into any other Hard nanite system.

I'm saying that you can't get your Wild Card Prototype benefit on nanites which aren't internal, and the passage you cite does not contradict this.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Mar 1 2010, 07:38 PM
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QUOTE (zergloli @ Feb 28 2010, 07:12 AM) *
The limits of this Quality elude me.

That's because it's not really a Quality by the main book definition – it's gear.

Personally, if anyone would choose to dump 30BP on this one, I'd make it a never-degrading system that can be controlled mentally, is able to mimic any nanite system (even systems only available as soft nanites and including Nanocybernetics) and the character can't get rid of it unless using hard radiation that would kill him.

That would make it a Quality, IMHO. Not a good one, though - it's still just Rating 3. (Yes, that means he could use it as essence-cost free SmartSkin. I don't see a problem there, as SmartSkin sucks anyway.)
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X-Kalibur
post Mar 1 2010, 08:01 PM
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Didn't they have injection spurs in previous editions? Surely you could modify that somehow.
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The Jake
post Mar 1 2010, 10:57 PM
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QUOTE (zergloli @ Mar 1 2010, 04:40 AM) *
I figured the limitation ("any internal nanoware systems") precluded weapons, unless of course you were using them on yourself... which would be of limited utility.


So whats stopping you connecting it to a cybergland (which is also "internal")?

- J.
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Udoshi
post Mar 2 2010, 01:49 AM
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If I was going to use the wild card nanohive, I'd end up burning my last 5 quality points on a Restricted Gear(nanohive), and getting a highest rating one I can. Due to availability limits, that's rating 4. Buy some extra feedstock, get the right knowledge skill, a nanite shop, and from there convince the GM that I ought to be able to let my wild card nanites make more of themselves.

Four rating 3 wildcard nannies stops being useless, and starts being amazing.

Edit: also, at least in my printing of augmentation, its the only way to conveniently get taggant nanities - which don't have a listed price/availability. S'missing from the table. Otherwise, they'd be pretty sweet to have for a deckless hacker. Example: "What? No officer, it couldn't have been me. I don't have a commlink, just an RFID sin chip in my arm."
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