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> Cybereyes for a Mage, Let's Fight About Them
Nifft
post Mar 3 2010, 05:23 PM
Post #1


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It seems to be a popular opinion that mages can do great things with cyber eyes. The only thing in the rules that allows cyber-eyes to be used at all is p.183 ("Physical cyber- or bio- enhancements paid for with Essence can be used to spot targets"). At least, this is the only thing I can find. If you know of a better rule, please tell me!

- - -

The argument for using cyber-enhancements seems to be:
1/ Base cybereyes have Capacity; and
2/ You paid for your base cybereyes with Essence; therefore
3/ Anything you stick in the base cybereyes -- whether you pay Essence or Capacity -- is fair game.

This is used to justify thermographic & low-light vision enhancements, which might be fine, but it seems that this argument works just as well for commlinks and ocular drones -- and that can't be right.

- - -

A simpler line of reasoning takes the rule on p.183 at face value. The test for a mage being allowed to use a cyber- or bio-enhancement for targeting would simply be:
- Is it an enhancement to your senses?
and
- Did you pay for it with Essence?

For the base cybereyes, it's obvious:
- Enhancement? [✓]
- Paid Essence? [✓]

For vision enhancements, it's equally obvious:
- Enhancement? [✓]
- Paid Essence? [ ... ]

You can pay Essence for thermographic & low-light vision, so you could pay for those separately, and use your excess Capacity for things that don't involve magic -- like flare compensation, smartlink, retinal duplication, etc. -- which would allow you to use your thermo + low-light for targeting magic. Just like if you'd kept your real eyes, and paid for those two enhancements with Essence.

Note that my interpretation does NOT allow magical targeting through ocular drones -- they can't be paid for with Essence, only Capacity.

Does yours? If so, is that desirable?

Cheers, -- N
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Posts in this topic
- Nifft   Cybereyes for a Mage   Mar 3 2010, 05:23 PM
- - D2F   The key word here is enhancement. The occular dron...   Mar 3 2010, 05:32 PM
|- - Nifft   QUOTE (D2F @ Mar 3 2010, 12:32 PM) The ke...   Mar 3 2010, 05:46 PM
|- - D2F   QUOTE (Nifft @ Mar 3 2010, 06:46 PM) Ther...   Mar 3 2010, 05:57 PM
|- - Nifft   QUOTE (D2F @ Mar 3 2010, 12:57 PM) I assu...   Mar 3 2010, 06:26 PM
|- - D2F   QUOTE (Nifft @ Mar 3 2010, 07:26 PM) Cybe...   Mar 3 2010, 06:28 PM
||- - Nifft   QUOTE (D2F @ Mar 3 2010, 01:28 PM) It was...   Mar 3 2010, 06:44 PM
||- - D2F   QUOTE (Nifft @ Mar 3 2010, 07:44 PM) I...   Mar 3 2010, 06:49 PM
||- - Draco18s   QUOTE (D2F @ Mar 3 2010, 01:49 PM) occula...   Mar 3 2010, 07:01 PM
|- - Doc Byte   QUOTE (Nifft @ Mar 3 2010, 07:26 PM) Cybe...   Mar 3 2010, 06:48 PM
- - LurkerOutThere   Even cyber eyes your still limited to what is in y...   Mar 3 2010, 05:43 PM
- - Karoline   The real question here is "Does paying for so...   Mar 3 2010, 06:43 PM
|- - Nifft   QUOTE (Karoline @ Mar 3 2010, 01:43 PM) T...   Mar 3 2010, 06:47 PM
|- - Karoline   QUOTE (Nifft @ Mar 3 2010, 01:47 PM) Well...   Mar 3 2010, 06:56 PM
|- - Nifft   QUOTE (Karoline @ Mar 3 2010, 01:56 PM) M...   Mar 3 2010, 07:15 PM
- - X-Kalibur   They've already lost a point of magic from get...   Mar 3 2010, 06:51 PM
|- - D2F   QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Mar 3 2010, 07:51...   Mar 3 2010, 06:59 PM
- - X-Kalibur   OH REALLY?!?! (sorry, had to do that) Cap...   Mar 3 2010, 07:04 PM
- - X-Kalibur   If you absolutely have to make it idiot-proof... d...   Mar 3 2010, 07:20 PM
- - Socinus   I think if you're going after different vision...   Mar 3 2010, 07:35 PM
- - Delarn   I've seen pictures of mages in shadowrun that ...   Mar 3 2010, 07:36 PM
|- - Caadium   QUOTE (Delarn @ Mar 3 2010, 11:36 AM) I...   Mar 3 2010, 07:51 PM
- - Kraegor   It is my opinion, any battle mage that needs to be...   Mar 3 2010, 07:44 PM
|- - Nifft   QUOTE (Delarn @ Mar 3 2010, 02:36 PM) I...   Mar 3 2010, 07:54 PM
|- - Doc Byte   QUOTE (Kraegor @ Mar 3 2010, 08:44 PM) It...   Mar 3 2010, 07:57 PM
- - Caadium   Nifft, one thing to consider is the history of cyb...   Mar 3 2010, 07:49 PM
|- - Nifft   QUOTE (Caadium @ Mar 3 2010, 02:49 PM) Ni...   Mar 3 2010, 08:09 PM
- - Umidori   Here's my take on things. Your normal eyes ar...   Mar 3 2010, 10:33 PM
- - tagz   Ahh, this one again. I really wish we could dig u...   Mar 4 2010, 12:43 AM
- - Umidori   No worries. I actually agree with you on the ultra...   Mar 4 2010, 12:52 AM
|- - Karoline   QUOTE (Umidori @ Mar 3 2010, 07:52 PM) No...   Mar 4 2010, 01:56 AM
|- - Tanegar   QUOTE (Karoline @ Mar 3 2010, 08:56 PM) Y...   Mar 4 2010, 10:52 PM
|- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Tanegar @ Mar 4 2010, 05:52 PM) On...   Mar 4 2010, 10:57 PM
|- - Mordinvan   QUOTE (Tanegar @ Mar 4 2010, 03:52 PM) Ul...   Mar 4 2010, 11:08 PM
|- - Tanegar   QUOTE (Mordinvan @ Mar 4 2010, 06:08 PM) ...   Mar 5 2010, 01:49 AM
- - Sponge   QUOTE (Caadium @ Mar 3 2010, 02:49 PM) Fu...   Mar 4 2010, 02:39 AM
- - Umidori   It just doesn't make sense. Cybereyes work eit...   Mar 4 2010, 02:49 AM
- - KCKitsune   Guys, if you pay for cybereyes then anything that ...   Mar 4 2010, 04:49 AM
|- - X-Kalibur   QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Mar 3 2010, 08:49 PM) ...   Mar 4 2010, 06:29 AM
|- - Mordinvan   QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Mar 3 2010, 09:49 PM) ...   Mar 4 2010, 08:11 PM
|- - tagz   And because I like to argue when I'm board... ...   Mar 5 2010, 12:01 AM
|- - Mordinvan   QUOTE (tagz @ Mar 4 2010, 05:01 PM) And b...   Mar 5 2010, 03:44 AM
|- - tagz   QUOTE (Mordinvan @ Mar 5 2010, 04:44 AM) ...   Mar 5 2010, 04:04 AM
|- - Mordinvan   QUOTE (tagz @ Mar 4 2010, 09:04 PM) Sound...   Mar 5 2010, 08:42 AM
|- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Mordinvan @ Mar 5 2010, 03:42 AM) ...   Mar 5 2010, 03:33 PM
- - HappyDaze   Just have a fiber-optic cable connect your deploye...   Mar 4 2010, 11:38 AM
|- - Draco18s   QUOTE (HappyDaze @ Mar 4 2010, 06:38 AM) ...   Mar 4 2010, 04:13 PM
|- - Karoline   QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 4 2010, 11:13 AM) S...   Mar 4 2010, 04:16 PM
|- - Mordinvan   QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 4 2010, 09:13 AM) S...   Mar 4 2010, 08:16 PM
|- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Mordinvan @ Mar 4 2010, 03:49 PM) ...   Mar 4 2010, 09:06 PM
||- - Mordinvan   QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 4 2010, 02:06 PM) S...   Mar 4 2010, 11:14 PM
||- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Mordinvan @ Mar 4 2010, 06:14 PM) ...   Mar 4 2010, 11:25 PM
||- - Mordinvan   QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 4 2010, 04:25 PM) A...   Mar 5 2010, 03:26 AM
||- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Mordinvan @ Mar 4 2010, 10:26 PM) ...   Mar 5 2010, 03:44 AM
|- - Tymeaus Jalynsfein   QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 4 2010, 09:13 AM) S...   Mar 5 2010, 02:27 AM
- - Ascalaphus   This bugs me, too. Clearly from a game balance per...   Mar 4 2010, 02:35 PM
- - Squinky   From the Faq on the SR4 site: Can I cast a spell ...   Mar 4 2010, 04:18 PM
|- - Karoline   QUOTE (Squinky @ Mar 4 2010, 11:18 AM) Pr...   Mar 4 2010, 04:40 PM
- - Squinky   You gotta latch onto something. My steps of offici...   Mar 4 2010, 04:53 PM
- - X-Kalibur   The actual text in the book for the drones states ...   Mar 4 2010, 04:56 PM
|- - Mordinvan   QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Mar 4 2010, 09:56...   Mar 4 2010, 08:18 PM
|- - X-Kalibur   QUOTE (Mordinvan @ Mar 4 2010, 12:18 PM) ...   Mar 4 2010, 08:23 PM
|- - Mordinvan   QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Mar 4 2010, 01:23...   Mar 4 2010, 08:26 PM
- - Stahlseele   QUOTE (Mordinvan @ Mar 4 2010, 09:16 PM) ...   Mar 4 2010, 08:21 PM
|- - Mordinvan   QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 4 2010, 01:21 PM)...   Mar 4 2010, 08:35 PM
|- - Draco18s   QUOTE (Mordinvan @ Mar 4 2010, 03:35 PM) ...   Mar 4 2010, 08:44 PM
|- - Mordinvan   QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 4 2010, 01:44 PM) I...   Mar 4 2010, 08:49 PM
|- - Squinky   QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 4 2010, 03:44 PM) I...   Mar 4 2010, 09:42 PM
- - Stahlseele   Ok, In universe science fiction says that magic ca...   Mar 4 2010, 08:40 PM
|- - Mordinvan   QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 4 2010, 01:40 PM)...   Mar 5 2010, 04:32 AM
- - Stahlseele   You won't accept the fact that IT'S MAGIC ...   Mar 4 2010, 08:59 PM
|- - Mordinvan   QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 4 2010, 01:59 PM)...   Mar 4 2010, 10:59 PM
- - X-Kalibur   Do you know any creatures that visually see in rad...   Mar 4 2010, 09:55 PM
|- - Mordinvan   QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Mar 4 2010, 02:55...   Mar 4 2010, 11:02 PM
|- - X-Kalibur   QUOTE (Mordinvan @ Mar 4 2010, 03:02 PM) ...   Mar 4 2010, 11:21 PM
|- - Mordinvan   QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Mar 4 2010, 04:21...   Mar 4 2010, 11:29 PM
- - Umidori   Magic can make as little sense as possible, but it...   Mar 4 2010, 10:04 PM
- - X-Kalibur   Except that zombies aren't dead, they are unde...   Mar 4 2010, 10:06 PM
|- - Mordinvan   QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Mar 4 2010, 03:06...   Mar 4 2010, 11:04 PM
- - X-Kalibur   Still not a property of their eyes. When we start ...   Mar 4 2010, 11:41 PM
|- - Mordinvan   QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Mar 4 2010, 04:41...   Mar 4 2010, 11:49 PM
- - Doc Byte   QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Mar 4 2010, 11:06...   Mar 5 2010, 12:08 AM
- - AngelisStorm   QUOTE (Mordinvan @ Mar 4 2010, 05:59 PM) ...   Mar 5 2010, 01:28 AM
- - HappyDaze   And that image is meaningless until it is processe...   Mar 5 2010, 02:01 AM
- - Tanegar   Retinae serve only to convert a natural image into...   Mar 5 2010, 02:13 AM
|- - Mordinvan   QUOTE (Tanegar @ Mar 4 2010, 07:13 PM) Re...   Mar 5 2010, 03:56 AM
|- - Tanegar   QUOTE (Mordinvan @ Mar 4 2010, 10:56 PM) ...   Mar 5 2010, 04:12 AM
|- - KarmaInferno   QUOTE (Tanegar @ Mar 4 2010, 11:12 PM) No...   Mar 5 2010, 06:57 AM
||- - AngelisStorm   QUOTE ...as the image created by cyber eyes is dig...   Mar 5 2010, 07:11 AM
||- - Mordinvan   QUOTE (AngelisStorm @ Mar 5 2010, 12:11 A...   Mar 5 2010, 09:07 AM
|- - Mordinvan   QUOTE (Tanegar @ Mar 4 2010, 09:12 PM) No...   Mar 5 2010, 09:10 AM
- - MJBurrage   The simple fact is that the spectrum of the EM ban...   Mar 5 2010, 04:08 AM
- - Adarael   Oh shit, let me go get my whip! I LOVE dead ho...   Mar 5 2010, 07:47 AM
- - KCKitsune   @Mordinvan, please just stop it. You're not g...   Mar 5 2010, 03:54 PM
- - wanderer_king   HMMM.... I would like to point out that it says E...   Mar 5 2010, 07:16 PM
|- - X-Kalibur   QUOTE (wanderer_king @ Mar 5 2010, 11:16 ...   Mar 5 2010, 07:24 PM
- - wanderer_king   Where does it? I have seen nothing that says cyber...   Mar 5 2010, 07:28 PM
|- - X-Kalibur   QUOTE (wanderer_king @ Mar 5 2010, 11:28 ...   Mar 5 2010, 07:35 PM
|- - Sponge   QUOTE (wanderer_king @ Mar 5 2010, 02:28 ...   Mar 5 2010, 07:55 PM
- - Draco18s   Also that whole "paid with essence" thin...   Mar 5 2010, 07:37 PM
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