Are there any special rules for programs past rating 6? Options

[Jonny Reload]

One of my players wants to use a Software test to start increasing his Programs and Firewall past a 6, are there any rules that limit this other then the long month intervals the player needs and the threshold he needs to meet?

[crizh]

Other than requiring a system you can actually run it on, no I don't think so.

[Medicineman]

Fluffwise
large Megacons are supposed to run rating 7 Progs on rating 7 Systems
If I where the GM I'd ask your Player to make a Run to obtain a rating 7 System then he could develop and run his Progs .

with a rating 3 Dance
Medicineman

[DWC]

That's the beauty of it. Thanks to how silly Unwired is, you can run a Rating 12 program, on a Rating 6 system, on a Response 3 nexus that you bought at Best Buy.

[Tycho]

actually, since SR4A you can simply program you own Software with rating >6

cya
Tycho

[D2F]

That's the beauty of it. Thanks to how silly Unwired is, you can run a Rating 12 program, on a Rating 6 system, on a Response 3 nexus that you bought at Best Buy.

How?

[crizh]

The System of a Nexus is not limited to Response.

A program may have the Optimization option up to Rating 6 which allows it to run on a System with System + Optimization equal to or less than it's Rating providing Optimization does not exceed System.

Therefore a Rating 12 Program with Optimization 6 will run on a System 6 which is in turn running on a Response 3 Nexus.

[D2F]

The System of a Nexus is not limited to Response.

A program may have the Optimization option up to Rating 6 which allows it to run on a System with System + Optimization equal to or less than it's Rating providing Optimization does not exceed System.

Therefore a Rating 12 Program with Optimization 6 will run on a System 6 which is in turn running on a Response 3 Nexus.

I concur that this is BS!

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Not that it would matter: The Optimization Option is valid and thus, a Response 6 Commlink will do.

[Fatum]

It'll just cost a bunch, and take a lot of time to code.
That said, I believe there's a sidenote stating that corps and especially military run programs with ratings over 6.
So if your player uses it, he's always risking to attract GOD's attention.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

The beauty of running Rating 12 Stealth program is that you don't attract attention anymore. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Saint Sithney]

And AIs can increase their inherent programs to that kind of level without having to spend 5 years coding. There's no rules on an AI adding program options with karma though. Not that it would be a stretch to make some simple rules to flesh out the stingy AI rules of RC...

[SleepIncarnate]

And Technomancers.... well, let's not get into that too much. Starting characters able to have as high as 18 in a complex form, fresh from creation.

[Fatum]

And Technomancers.... well, let's not get into that too much. Starting characters able to have as high as 18 in a complex form, fresh from creation.

And summon level teen-huge sprites, too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif)

[SleepIncarnate]

And summon level teen-huge sprites, too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif)

Naw, at character creation the best they can do is 12 unless your GM is doing an optional BP/karma build amount that allows for submersion at character creation. But yeah, Resonance 6, Stealth 6, Exploit 6. Call forth 4 rating 6 registered sprites, thread Stealth and Exploit up to 12, have two of the sprites sustain, have the third sprite loan you some Stealth and the 4th some Exploit and viola, 18 in both CFs.

[Red-ROM]

If its that easy for the guy on the street, imagine what the govornment and the megacorps are doing. You think the most powerful TM's in the world are livin in the shadows, or in luxury corp. mansions?

[Orcus Blackweath...]

Naw, at character creation the best they can do is 12 unless your GM is doing an optional BP/karma build amount that allows for submersion at character creation. But yeah, Resonance 6, Stealth 6, Exploit 6. Call forth 4 rating 6 registered sprites, thread Stealth and Exploit up to 12, have two of the sprites sustain, have the third sprite loan you some Stealth and the 4th some Exploit and viola, 18 in both CFs.

Sprites can only sustain a thread for a few rounds though. After that you drop back to normal, or lose 2 dice per sustained CF.

[Dragnar]

With a stealth of 18, the amount of dice lost on matrix actions doesn't matter, because by RAW no one and nothing may in any way shape or form act against you.
The game simply breaks down at high stealth program levels.
Well, the matrix is broken to begin with, so it just breaks down to even more hillarious levels.

[SleepIncarnate]

Sprites can only sustain a thread for a few rounds though. After that you drop back to normal, or lose 2 dice per sustained CF.

How many rounds do you think you need to hack admin access of a node with Exploit 18? And with Stealth 18 you're guaranteed it's not going to see you unless you're hacking military grade stuff and it's getting good rolls. And once you're in, well, that still brings you to 12 stealth once the threading ends.

[Odsh]

This is the sidenote, Unwired p.112:

The Cutting Edge: Military Grade Software

Although normal programs are only commercially available to a maximum rating of 6, cutting edge software with a rating of 7 or higher does exist. So-called military grade or prototype software is usually used and distributed only among governmental and military spiders, special unit hackers (like GOD or ARM agents), or the operatives of the megacorporations that develop these programs.
To prevent military programs from leaking into the shadows and black markers, copies of these programs are closely monitored. Use or loading of these programs is often restricted by biometric identification or the use of Limitation or Timer program options.
It is rumored that some agencies with special viruses that leave dormancy as soon as the software is transferred to a different commlink or computer system in order to wreak havoc on those systems, delete the software, and/or report its location to its originators.
The gamemaster designs exactly when and where to include such potent programs in his campaign. They should be rare at best, and finding, stealing, or otherwise acquiring such software could be an adventure unto itself - not to mention keeping it.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

And how exactly does it prevent the hacker from writing a Rating 12 Stealth program himself?

[Odsh]

Nothing, I guess. I'm not saying the sidenote makes sense, it wouldn't be the first incoherence in the matrix rules. It's just interesting to see how rare such programs are supposed to be, although a single skilled person can code one in a few months. It seems that 6 is an implicit limit to many ratings in Shadowrun, although they often forget to mention it. Personnally I wouldn't allow my players to code or build anything past rating 6, unless it is clearly allowed.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Perhaps limiting the Program rating to Software skill is a solution – like the Latex Face Mask (and similar) rating is limited by Disguise skill.

Of course, that'll make the bound Task Spirit coding on an old-school terminal rule supreme.

[Tycho]

Perhaps limiting the Program rating to Software skill is a solution

Which was the case in SR4, but this requirement was left out in SR4A

cya
Tycho

[Rotbart van Dain...]

AFAIS, there is no such restriction in SR4, either. At least not on p. 240 – where should it be?