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> Modifying Laser Weapons, Yes? No? Maybe?
Umidori
post Mar 7 2010, 11:07 AM
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So I'm curious about the two man-portable laser weapons from Arsenal, the Ares Redline pistol and the Ares MP Laser 3 assault rifle.

Now, it clearly states they can mount Underbarrel and Top accessories, but can you also mod these particular weapons? Of course certain mods don't apply if the weapon doesn't fire bullets, but still, in particular I'm curious about...

Firing Selection Change? - Yes, you'd use an entire clip in one shot on FA, but that could easily be worth it.
Extended Clip? - Specially optimized and more efficient power clips seem reasonable.
Smartgun System? - Would this be standard anyway?
Laser Sight? - Would this even work?
Silencer / Surpressor? - Are laser weapons silent to begin with? Are they visible? Are they sustained beams, or discrete "blasts"? Would a Thermal Supressor work at least?

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Rotbart van Dain...
post Mar 7 2010, 11:56 AM
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Modifications and accessories are two different things, so weapons and gear can pretty much always modified. Some things exist both as accessories, some of those are better as modifications, some exist only as accessories, some only as modifications.

There is not much point in many modifications for a laser, though – silencers would be one of those, as would be electronic fireing or the environment mod.
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Dahrken
post Mar 7 2010, 12:07 PM
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Firing Selection Change : IMHO no.
Extended clip : Not really, the power packs of laser weapons are already state of the art technology without much room for improvement beyond physically enlarging the clip. See Satchel Power PAck or Power Backpack for prolonged fire.
Smartgun system : why not ?
Laser sight : it will work fine, even better than with a firearm since there is no drop with a laser
Silencer/Suppressor : forget it, there is no expanding gases to slow/stop. A laser is almost silent, but you may have some crackling due to air ionisation but it's probably less noise than a bullet moving through the air. Air is not perfectly transparent, there is dust and/or water droplets or smoke that will diffuse the beam a little bit and briefly show... if you are able to see the wavelength of the laser - an infrared laser won't show up unless you have thermographic vision. They most likely fire a "blast" (either a continous beam sustained for a short duration, or a burst of very short pulses), too short in duration to be "walked" across a target. A Thermal suppressormay help to hide the weapon itself building up heat when fired repeatedly, but since there is neither a muzzle flash nor a gas burst to begin with, it would be closer to Signature Masking
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Manunancy
post Mar 7 2010, 12:11 PM
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firing mode change : it might be done, but would need a complete redesign of the weapon to both speed up battery discharge and improve cooling. Since weapon-grade lasers are probably already quite maxed out there, I dont think it's doable as a retrofit.

extended clip : one can assume laser battery paks are already quite maxed in power density, increasing the number of shoots would either require a hideously expensive pack, or an increase in bulk proportional to the increase in capacity.

Laser sight : piece of cake, your only concern is to line it up properly. You could even have a two-stages trigger, with a light pressure shooting a 'pointer' beam and full pressure releasing a full power shot

smartlink : no problem here, it's even simpler than projectile weapons as you won't have to bother with projectile drop and the like.

silencer/thermal : the only noise from the weapon is caused by the air heated by the beam on it's way. The only way to reduce it is to reduce the beam's power - which means lowering the damage.
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Vermithrax
post Mar 7 2010, 12:16 PM
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Laser Sights would definitely be valid. Not all lasers operate on a wavelength in the visible spectrum.
Smartgun Systems would have to be reprogrammed for a laser system.
Silencers wouldn't be needed, these aren't the "blaster" weapons from star wars or similar fiction.
The smell of ozone is another matter entirely.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Mar 7 2010, 12:17 PM
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QUOTE (Dahrken @ Mar 7 2010, 02:07 PM) *
Extended clip : Not really, the power packs of laser weapons are already state of the art technology without much room for improvement beyond physically enlarging the clip.

What's wrong with "physically enlarging the clip"? That's the same for slug-throwers – the ammunition isn't getting smaller. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

The real issue is that it's much harder to manufacture those non-standard-issue batteries than to manufacture non-standard-issue clips.
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D2F
post Mar 7 2010, 12:46 PM
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QUOTE (Umidori @ Mar 7 2010, 12:07 PM) *
Firing Selection Change? - Yes, you'd use an entire clip in one shot on FA, but that could easily be worth it.


I vote no. Laser Technology is still state of the art technology in SR. If a semi-automatic discharge is the most peak power power cells in SR canhandle, then fully automatic firing is simply impossible. Yeah, I said it: impossibe.

QUOTE (Umidori @ Mar 7 2010, 12:07 PM) *
Extended Clip? - Specially optimized and more efficient power clips seem reasonable.


I vote no here as well. Reason: Those specialized, optimized battery packs already exist in the arsenal and are readily available for players already, even without the need for further modification. The only thing this mod would "achieve" is to pretend it was reasonable to press the poower output of a satchel sized battery into a clip-sized battery. That's nonsense.

QUOTE (Umidori @ Mar 7 2010, 12:07 PM) *
Smartgun System? - Would this be standard anyway?


It wouldn't be standrad, but it would be plausible, especially since it is already available as a top-mounted accessoire. I woud allow it, but I would also think it's stupid to use that mod, as a regular top-mounted smartlink would be cheaper, with the same efficienty.

QUOTE (Umidori @ Mar 7 2010, 12:07 PM) *
Laser Sight? - Would this even work?


See smartlink above.

QUOTE (Umidori @ Mar 7 2010, 12:07 PM) *
Silencer / Surpressor? - Are laser weapons silent to begin with? Are they visible? Are they sustained beams, or discrete "blasts"? Would a Thermal Supressor work at least?


Are they silent to begin with? Up until the point where they interact with something. Depending on the power of the Laser, they can be very loud on impact. Any sufficiently weapons grade laser would be about comparable to yoour average handgun.

Can they be silenced? No. The noise does not emit from the weapon but from the point of impact. It is impossible to silence them.

Would a thermal suppressor work? Lasers are directed energy weapons. You won't have much of a heat signature from your weapon to begin with (although the power packs might get pretty hot, you could argue that thermal dampening on the power packs would help a bit. I'd call this a matter of house rulings, though)
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Daylen
post Mar 7 2010, 02:53 PM
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I thought it was just the M1 garand that had clips I thought most modern firearms had removable box magazines.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Mar 7 2010, 03:12 PM
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The Shadowrun terminology for a detachable box magazine is "clip".
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Mar 7 2010, 03:20 PM
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QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Mar 7 2010, 08:12 AM) *
The Shadowrun terminology for a detachable box magazine is "clip".



Yeah, Go Figure...

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Wiggles Von Beer...
post Mar 7 2010, 03:40 PM
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QUOTE (D2F @ Mar 7 2010, 12:46 PM) *
I vote no. Laser Technology is still state of the art technology in SR. If a semi-automatic discharge is the most peak power power cells in SR canhandle, then fully automatic firing is simply impossible. Yeah, I said it: impossibe.

I don't think it would be impossible, but I definitely think that it would turn the weapon into a heap of red hot slag at the least, or cause it to explode.
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Stahlseele
post Mar 7 2010, 03:55 PM
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Why would one even need smartlink/laser-sight?
Isn't laser-weaponry basically the pinnacle of point and shoot?
You don't have to deal with gravity or wind moving your projectiles.
There ARE no projectiles. And the shot goes off and hits in the same femto second, due to speed of light.
So you don't need to lead your shot either.
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Dahrken
post Mar 7 2010, 04:00 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 7 2010, 04:55 PM) *
Why would one even need smartlink/laser-sight?
Isn't laser-weaponry basically the pinnacle of point and shoot?

Sure, but knowing exactly where your weapon is pointing is helped by a laser sight or a smartlink.
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Stahlseele
post Mar 7 2010, 04:08 PM
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Ah, right @.@
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Daylen
post Mar 7 2010, 04:11 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 7 2010, 03:55 PM) *
Why would one even need smartlink/laser-sight?
Isn't laser-weaponry basically the pinnacle of point and shoot?
You don't have to deal with gravity or wind moving your projectiles.
There ARE no projectiles. And the shot goes off and hits in the same femto second, due to speed of light.
So you don't need to lead your shot either.


try an experiment. get a laser pointer and try hitting a target no more than 3" diameter from at least 25yrds, then 50 then 100 yrds. In high energy military lasers other smaller lasers are used for aiming. I seem to remember ABL uses 3; two lasers for aiming/beamshape and the third is the one that causes damage. Also, gravity and wind are generally only factors in long range shooting (long range for each firearm). Finally, a laser sight only helps in closerange anyway; if the bullet dropps 10" or a few feet laser sights will not help.
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KCKitsune
post Mar 7 2010, 04:59 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 7 2010, 10:55 AM) *
Why would one even need smartlink/laser-sight?
Isn't laser-weaponry basically the pinnacle of point and shoot?


I want to know why you even need an exotic weapon skill to use a laser. Like Stahlseele, said it's the ultimate in point and shoot. I would say that you need the skill... unless you have a smartlink and then you just use the skill of the form factor of the laser (use pistol skill for Redline, automatics for the rifle)
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Mar 7 2010, 05:13 PM
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Exactly because it doesn't work like a slug-thrower.
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Khyron
post Mar 7 2010, 07:04 PM
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Clearly the laser weapons need their own special customizations. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

*Laser Customization I - Allows the laser to be colored as you see fit, from any color in the rainbow.
*Laser Customization II - Laser changes color through patterns while firing, can be synchronized to music.
*Sound FX Kit - The laser plays Hollywood style laser sound effects every time the trigger is pulled. Programmable.
*Laser Disguise Kit - Replaces the default laser gun frame with a mockup body imitating Hollywood/Video game laser guns.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Mar 7 2010, 07:20 PM
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That would be the Custom Look Modification…
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Xahn Borealis
post Mar 7 2010, 08:09 PM
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QUOTE (Khyron @ Mar 7 2010, 07:04 PM) *
*Sound FX Kit - The laser plays Hollywood style laser sound effects every time the trigger is pulled. Programmable.



Pew pew!
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KCKitsune
post Mar 7 2010, 09:22 PM
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QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Mar 7 2010, 12:13 PM) *
Exactly because it doesn't work like a slug-thrower.


Hence the reason I said if you have the weapon smartlinked then you don't need the skill.

Without the smartlink, the person firing it might have problems.
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Mordinvan
post Mar 7 2010, 09:57 PM
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QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Mar 7 2010, 10:13 AM) *
Exactly because it doesn't work like a slug-thrower.


They are in general easier to use, and would require even less training then guns. Also if you can point a pistol, you CAN point a laser pistol. If can you point a laser pistol, you 'may' not be able to point a regular one.
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Stahlseele
post Mar 7 2010, 10:01 PM
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No recoil, no draft from wind and gravity, no smoke from the barrel, no loud bang and muzzle flash to distract. Practically no reach limit either.
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TheOneRonin
post Mar 7 2010, 10:28 PM
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QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig @ Mar 7 2010, 10:12 AM) *
The Shadowrun terminology for a detachable box magazine is "clip".



Only because the devs learned everything they know about firearms from "The A Team".

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Patrick the Gnom...
post Mar 7 2010, 10:29 PM
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Firing Selection Change: Th is modifi cation is not available
for weapons using unusual loading mechanisms or exotic
ammunition, like the Sakura Fubuki or Pain Inducer.

I'm surprised so many people forget the first line of the firing selection change mod description. No, a laser definitely has exotic ammunition so you can't mod it to fire faster.

A smartgun or laser sight would be fine, but extended clip just doesn't work, you don't have a clip, you have a battery. The way you get more shots is hitching your laser up to a bigger power source, aka, backpack or whatever other RAW laser batteries there are, or just plugging it into a house and having fun.

Lasers are completely silent to begin with (unless of course you get the Sound FX Kit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) so a silencer isn't going to help you at all with sounds coming from your muzzle, and I don't think there's anything you can do about the sound of impact. I could see the price of a thermal suppressor being used to pay for making your laser fire infrared instead of a visible beam.
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