Sacrifice, Damaging yourself to prevent damage to you. Options

[Valashar]

On a somewhat related note, I've been pushing around ideas in my head about ways to lessen the impact (both mechanical and story based) of spirit binding. Essentially a tradition that doesn't so much bind their spirits as negotiate with them, making some of the actions normally only usable by a bound spirit available to one that is unbound (aid spellcasting, aid study sorts of things... NOT things like absorb drain) with the mage making some kind of offering in return. Any thoughts?

[Starmage21]

On a somewhat related note, I've been pushing around ideas in my head about ways to lessen the impact (both mechanical and story based) of spirit binding. Essentially a tradition that doesn't so much bind their spirits as negotiate with them, making some of the actions normally only usable by a bound spirit available to one that is unbound (aid spellcasting, aid study sorts of things... NOT things like absorb drain) with the mage making some kind of offering in return. Any thoughts?

I think this is a default portion of all magical traditions, but is glossed over a lot because the typical shadowrunner PC mage has little use for bargaining with teh spirits.

[RedeemerofOgar]

On a somewhat related note, I've been pushing around ideas in my head about ways to lessen the impact (both mechanical and story based) of spirit binding. Essentially a tradition that doesn't so much bind their spirits as negotiate with them, making some of the actions normally only usable by a bound spirit available to one that is unbound (aid spellcasting, aid study sorts of things... NOT things like absorb drain) with the mage making some kind of offering in return. Any thoughts?

Sounds intriguing. My mage is Zoroastrian, and I took incompetent (binding) because they view spirits as Angels and Demons, and he would neither want to bind an angel nor summon a demon.

I imagine the rules would be something like a Minor Spirit Pact, yes? Offer a karma and the release of it's remaining services to a summoned spirit, in exchange for one use of a bound-spirit service? Alternately, you could look into full spirit pact with a Free Spirit, which fits perfectly but is a quite noticible power jump from what you are looking for.

[Stahlseele]

Wait AH offers something he cooked up and NOBODY said yes yet?
GIMME!
Also, why has nobody tried tagteaming a spirit yet? O.o
One mage does the cutting/summoning with 1 box left before blacking out, the other mage keeps healing the first mage magically.
Or smoke some of that regenerating plant beforehand.

[LurkerOutThere]

Personally i've found the only way to keep magic in this game reasonable is to not allow healing of drain damage.

[Stahlseele]

That is in the rules.
But we are talking about sacrifice which is physical harm done to offset damage.
And because it's not drain it can be healed. The difference right now is the mage cutting himself emo style, or cutting other people Freddy Krueger Style. Not the mage being cut by someone else ^^
Hmm, Trolls do heal pretty fast and have a longer physical track to boot.
So give a Troll something that makes him not notice the damage and cut him some nice tribals.

[knasser]

On a somewhat related note, I've been pushing around ideas in my head about ways to lessen the impact (both mechanical and story based) of spirit binding. Essentially a tradition that doesn't so much bind their spirits as negotiate with them, making some of the actions normally only usable by a bound spirit available to one that is unbound (aid spellcasting, aid study sorts of things... NOT things like absorb drain) with the mage making some kind of offering in return. Any thoughts?

I treat the rules as slightly abstract (as I believe they are intended to be) and assume some traditions are doing exactly that. So if a Black Magician is summoning and binding, she's binding them by force in some way. If a shaman summons, he's beseeching their aid. When the Black Magician uses binding materials, they are perhaps sacrifice to dark powers to have one of their servants (the summoned spirit) wait on him. When the shaman does it - it's an offering to the spirit in gratitude for its service. Etc.

If you're talking mechanically, you might want to take a quick look at the rules in Running Wild for mundane negotiating with spirits. It's on pages 174-175 and you use a series of rolls (mainly Arcana + Logic) to draw a spirit to you. There is no roll to determine services - you're basically negotiating as one character to another. One thing to note is that these rules are intended to be for free or wild spirits (including ones detailed in the Magical Threats section of Street Magic, such as Shedim). There is a requirement for magical paraphanalia which are consumed in the calling and these are created with an Enchanting + Magic roll, so if you're mundane, you'll need a magician's aid to at least get everything you need together. But possibly this might be what you're looking for. It's only about a page in length and you could improvise it if you want. Just consider that this will be non-standard spirits by these rules and you might want to keep that aspect as it's pretty interesting in outcome.

Peace and coolness,

K.

[knasser]

So give a Troll something that makes him not notice the damage and cut him some nice tribals.

Madame Bludd's Piercing and Magic Emporium. I can see it now.

[Stahlseele]

Weell . . a Tattoo/something shop as a front for a small shadow-clinic.
Use the damage done to someone willing to heal the damage done to someone unwilling O.o