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> Radioactive Bullets, Effect on magic
IceKatze
post Mar 16 2010, 04:27 AM
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hi hi

Does anyone know if there are rules for how radiation effects paracritters, spirits and things? I remember reading that radiation has an effect on background count and is harmful to magicians. People already use depleted uranium in bullets, but in the Sixth World, I'm sure you could make ammunition that is even more radioactive.
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Fatum
post Mar 16 2010, 04:33 AM
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Depleted uranium is called depleted for a reason - it's even less radioactive than uranium ore. As a matter of fact, it's so low-emitting while still being good at catching neutrons it's used for radiation shielding in medtech.
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Manunancy
post Mar 16 2010, 07:08 AM
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In my opinion, a bullet radioactive enough to generate significant background count and hamper the magic of whatever person or critter it gets stuck into would be radioactive enought to be a health hazard. not in teh 'glow in the dark after five minutes' sort of hazard, but nasty enough that the hassles outweight the benefits.
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MikeKozar
post Mar 16 2010, 07:28 AM
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QUOTE (IceKatze @ Mar 15 2010, 08:27 PM) *
... you could make ammunition that is even more radioactive.


Indeed...since lead is a well-known radiation shield and bullet material, it seems like you could have bullets with a 'hot' core that would rupture on impact. For fluff effect, I would describe it as a luminous green ooze. As far as game effects, I agree that it probably wouldn't be a force multiplier in a gunfight - rads are a slow poison - but I would seriously consider it being unnatural enough to get through nature spirits' ItNW as a houserule. Of course, if you're toxic enough to be making a case for being Toxic-aspected, then you are seriously messing up the neighborhood.
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IceKatze
post Mar 16 2010, 11:12 AM
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hi hi

Well, megacorps aren't really known for being nice guys. Maybe Ares Firewatch would be someone who would give it a shot.
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Ascalaphus
post Mar 16 2010, 11:43 AM
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I like. Rad-Bull ammo. Seriously difficult availability, and certainly Forbidden, but one of the few mundane products that work decently against spirits.
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Hagga
post Mar 16 2010, 02:15 PM
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QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ Mar 16 2010, 11:43 AM) *
I like. Rad-Bull ammo. Seriously difficult availability, and certainly Forbidden, but one of the few mundane products that work decently against spirits.

I'm still holding out for a weapon that injects orphans with deepweed, then fires them at 250km/h+ at the spirit in question. Would it still work if we dismembered the orphans after injecting them?
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DireRadiant
post Mar 16 2010, 02:16 PM
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Physics and Magic interaction ... just thinking about it will make your head explode.
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Stahlseele
post Mar 16 2010, 02:38 PM
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Especially if it's magic interacting with your physique . .
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Fatum
post Mar 16 2010, 05:57 PM
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QUOTE (IceKatze @ Mar 16 2010, 02:12 PM) *
Well, megacorps aren't really known for being nice guys. Maybe Ares Firewatch would be someone who would give it a shot.


Firewatch are highly trained professionals, each of whom costs Ares a bunch. I can imagine them giving the runners some new toys to try out, but giving their own best guys radiation poisoning? They've had enough of that in Bug City already.
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Manunancy
post Mar 16 2010, 06:50 PM
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QUOTE (MikeKozar @ Mar 16 2010, 08:28 AM) *
Indeed...since lead is a well-known radiation shield and bullet material, it seems like you could have bullets with a 'hot' core that would rupture on impact. For fluff effect, I would describe it as a luminous green ooze. As far as game effects, I agree that it probably wouldn't be a force multiplier in a gunfight - rads are a slow poison - but I would seriously consider it being unnatural enough to get through nature spirits' ItNW as a houserule. Of course, if you're toxic enough to be making a case for being Toxic-aspected, then you are seriously messing up the neighborhood.


One thing to remeber is that the lead shield of most radiosources is inches thick. The outer layer of a radcore bullet is would be barely a tenth of an inch thick, which means gamma rays will leak through almost unhindered. Which is going to cause serious storage problems along with a significant safety hazard for the users. Which makes it rather unpractical. It's also a PR disaster waiting to happen.
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Stahlseele
post Mar 16 2010, 06:52 PM
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lead bullet, lead clip, lead gun.
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Delarn
post Mar 16 2010, 06:57 PM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium
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Manunancy
post Mar 16 2010, 07:02 PM
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Lead is a lousy material for a gun - not strong enough. A lead-lined clip might be doable, but once again bulk problems makes a meaningfull thickness impractical. And as I've mentioned, the thickness the bllet's lead coating won't be enough, the bullet is too small.
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DamienKnight
post Mar 16 2010, 07:11 PM
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QUOTE (MikeKozar @ Mar 16 2010, 02:28 AM) *
Indeed...since lead is a well-known radiation shield and bullet material, it seems like you could have bullets with a 'hot' core that would rupture on impact. For fluff effect, I would describe it as a luminous green ooze. As far as game effects, I agree that it probably wouldn't be a force multiplier in a gunfight - rads are a slow poison - but I would seriously consider it being unnatural enough to get through nature spirits' ItNW as a houserule. Of course, if you're toxic enough to be making a case for being Toxic-aspected, then you are seriously messing up the neighborhood.
Would the spirits immunity not stop the lead bullet from penetrating them? Even if the bullet broke on impact, the force would be diminished. It would be like shooting a spirit with a radioactive paintball. The entire bullet would have to be radioactive to penetrate immunity. Even then, Isnt radiation supposed to have a slow effect on magic, not an instantaneous devastating effect?

QUOTE (Hagga @ Mar 16 2010, 09:15 AM) *
I'm still holding out for a weapon that injects orphans with deepweed, then fires them at 250km/h+ at the spirit in question. Would it still work if we dismembered the orphans after injecting them?
Fantastic! You may want to look into Deepweed's effect on non-sapients... might be a little easier to sell a Magic-Monkey-Blaster to Government regulated Military programs, rather than trying to sell them a 'Drugged-Dismembered-but-still-alive-Orphan-Blaster'. Magic Monkey Blaster just markets better (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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MikeKozar
post Mar 16 2010, 08:09 PM
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QUOTE (DamienKnight @ Mar 16 2010, 11:11 AM) *
Would the spirits immunity not stop the lead bullet from penetrating them? Even if the bullet broke on impact, the force would be diminished. It would be like shooting a spirit with a radioactive paintball. The entire bullet would have to be radioactive to penetrate immunity. Even then, Isnt radiation supposed to have a slow effect on magic, not an instantaneous devastating effect?


Like I said, houserule. There are some practical issues that make the Rad-Bull rounds unrealistic; you need something ugly enough to be Toxic, but controlled enough to not hurt your team and to fire out of an ordinary gun. The Paintball effect is a concern when we start determining damage modifiers; treating them as gel-rounds might be an easy adaptation.

I keep thinking back to an older edition, and maybe somebody could help me recall which one I'm thinking of...spirits used to be pretty sharply aspected...City Spirits couldn't be summoned in a forest, and vice versa. Toxic was another aspect, and it follows that poisoning a region would have a disruptive effect.

I don't know if it's practical as a player weapon, but I might equip a Toxic Shaman's followers with it for sheer Evil value.
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Walpurgisborn
post Mar 16 2010, 09:39 PM
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QUOTE (MikeKozar @ Mar 16 2010, 03:09 PM) *
Like I said, houserule. There are some practical issues that make the Rad-Bull rounds unrealistic; you need something ugly enough to be Toxic, but controlled enough to not hurt your team and to fire out of an ordinary gun. The Paintball effect is a concern when we start determining damage modifiers; treating them as gel-rounds might be an easy adaptation.

Polonium. Seriously nasty stuff. It's an alpha-emitter, meaning it's not very penetrative, paper will block emissions. But it's nasty when injected, or inhaled, where it's pretty much going to shred whoever is the unlucky recipient.

Add it as the creamy center to a lead jacket bullet, and you've pretty much dropped a massive rad count on your unsuspecting mage/critter. Further, even if they do survive, they're in for some major hospital expenses trying to use Sixth World medicine to heal what is arguably the most terrible way to die you can find.
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Dumori
post Mar 16 2010, 09:45 PM
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Nasty. All I can say alpha radiation is just nasty once inside you.
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Daylen
post Mar 17 2010, 12:05 AM
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in russia I hear ol 210 is a favorite assassination tool just to let everyone know who did it.
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Dumori
post Mar 17 2010, 12:14 AM
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Yeah the was a big(high media coverage) 210 assanation in the UK last year.
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Fatum
post Mar 17 2010, 01:28 AM
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QUOTE (Daylen @ Mar 17 2010, 03:05 AM) *
in russia I hear ol 210 is a favorite assassination tool just to let everyone know who did it.


*facepalm*
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Mar 17 2010, 01:30 AM
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QUOTE (Walpurgisborn @ Mar 16 2010, 02:39 PM) *
Polonium. Seriously nasty stuff. It's an alpha-emitter, meaning it's not very penetrative, paper will block emissions. But it's nasty when injected, or inhaled, where it's pretty much going to shred whoever is the unlucky recipient.

Add it as the creamy center to a lead jacket bullet, and you've pretty much dropped a massive rad count on your unsuspecting mage/critter. Further, even if they do survive, they're in for some major hospital expenses trying to use Sixth World medicine to heal what is arguably the most terrible way to die you can find.



I was always a big fan of "Doom" (See Shadowtech) laden Capsule rounds... what a nasty way to go...

Keep the Faith
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IceKatze
post Mar 17 2010, 01:50 AM
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hi hi

As far as the critter immunity is concerned, you could use the same technique as a copper penetrator with your radioactive material, that way the entire bullet wouldn't need to be radioactive. Or you could use a discarding sabot too.
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nemafow
post Mar 17 2010, 02:14 AM
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QUOTE (Manunancy @ Mar 17 2010, 06:02 AM) *
And as I've mentioned, the thickness the bllet's lead coating won't be enough, the bullet is too small.


Maybe use bigger bullets (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

All jokes..
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Manunancy
post Mar 17 2010, 07:09 AM
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In the aforementionned polonium poisoning case, as far as I know the target did die as much, if not more, from the chemcial toxicity of the polonium as from it's radioactivity. Polonium is toxic, like many heavy metals suc as mercury and cadmium. Of course being radioactive don't help, but even a non-radioactive istope would still be higly toxic.
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