best character sheets for a heavy skill / qualities char Options

[makari]

I'm having a hell of a time finding a character sheet that can handle my skills or my number of qualities

I have 19 active skills and 20 knowledge skills

and the way I made the character i wrote a background first and then built the character the background described, which led to pretty heavy use of qualities, 10 positive and 13 negative qualities, that I haven't seen any sheet capable of handling, just curious if i'm going to have to make my own for this char.

[FriendoftheDork]

Hmm probably a problem because by RAW you're limited to 35BPs in negative qualities. .. you must have at least 115BPs worth of negative ones!

BTW you have to post the character here after you're done. For now I suggest making your own character sheet in word or excel. Or use the one with 3-4 pages and devote 2 additional whole pages to skills and qualities and keep the rest.

[svenftw]

This doesn't answer your question, but are you ignoring the rules that only allow 35 points for Qualities?

[makari]

guess so, I thought that it said you can only gain up to 35 bp from qualities, meaning you could have more total balanced between positive and negative... the total between both positive and negative only gave me back 15 bp so I thought i was in

only one problem with the 35pt max with qualities then... many of them are so linked that if you take one you almost have to find a story reason NOT to take another

for example, SINner, if you take it I'm using you have or had a job, which would generally mean either "dayjob" or "records on file" (the one that a corp has up to day records, biometrics, etc, linked to your sin)... and if you take records on file then you have to have a reason why you left the corp, and assuming they didn't simply let you go all peaceful like, then you've probably got a criminal sin or enemy or something similar where you were forced out / fired / etc...

if you went enemy then you probably have wanted or vendetta, on top of the criminal sin

see what I'm saying is, if you actually have any form of interesting background, the combination of qualities will come out to more than 35 pretty fast

and I didn't feel like writing a background consisting of "I'm a sinless... so I thought I'd be a shadowrunner... the end"

I'm actually thinking of taking this background I wrote up for him, and turning it into a short story for the contest...

[Zolhex]

I got nada to help ya list the qualities but follow the link in my sig and check out my sheets on my yahoo site to see if any of them has enough room for your skills. if so then just print a sheet with your qualities on it.

[vladski]

guess so, I thought that it said you can only gain up to 35 bp from qualities, meaning you could have more total balanced between positive and negative... the total between both positive and negative only gave me back 15 bp so I thought i was in

only one problem with the 35pt max with qualities then... many of them are so linked that if you take one you almost have to find a story reason NOT to take another

for example, SINner, if you take it I'm using you have or had a job, which would generally mean either "dayjob" or "records on file" (the one that a corp has up to day records, biometrics, etc, linked to your sin)... and if you take records on file then you have to have a reason why you left the corp, and assuming they didn't simply let you go all peaceful like, then you've probably got a criminal sin or enemy or something similar where you were forced out / fired / etc...

if you went enemy then you probably have wanted or vendetta, on top of the criminal sin

see what I'm saying is, if you actually have any form of interesting background, the combination of qualities will come out to more than 35 pretty fast

and I didn't feel like writing a background consisting of "I'm a sinless... so I thought I'd be a shadowrunner... the end"

I'm actually thinking of taking this background I wrote up for him, and turning it into a short story for the contest...

You don't have to actually take the points (or subtract the points) in order to create an interesting background story. Go through your character and try to figure out which of the "linked" qualities are the "primary" ones. So, if you are a SINner, then don't take the points and obligations for having a "Dayjob", just play your character with that as a background. Work it out withthe GM.. who you work for and how often. All those negative and positive qualities end up negating most of the advantages and disadvangtages anyway. Pos and Neg qualities are really supposed to be about creating roleplaying hooks for hte character anyway.

Vlad

[vladski]

Double post

[makari]

I get what you're saying, and I'm fine with it, but then it doesn't really seem fair to say... I didn't take dayjob with the BP, but it's in my background, so I want to use that 5k/month income to buy... just as it wouldn't really be cool to say, i didn't pay bp for being born rich, or being college educated, or having restricted gear, but it's in my background, so when i add in those bonus die I have...

I see the need for the BP system with qualities to balance things some, I just dont seem much reason to be restrictive with it, other than to say you can't pile on 100pts of negative qualities to max out all your skills or something, that much I understand

[svenftw]

Well of course you wouldn't get the bonus dice or the extra cash if you don't take the Qualities. But not everything in your background story has to be reflected on your character sheet - you can pick the few key defining Qualities and then leave the rest in the story.

There's a good reason for restricting how many Qualities you can take aside from the obvious BP abuse potential. I mean, you have *23* Qualities - how many of those are going to come into play during a game session? If you try to shoehorn them all in you'll just be taking roleplaying opportunities away from the other players. Your sessions would be peppered with:

"Ooops, I'm wanted by them we can't go there."

"Uh oh, that triggers a flashback."

"I have to pick a fight because I'm prejudiced against him."

"Actually that spirit is going to focus on attacking me."

"Does this trigger my simsense vertigo?"

You get the point. It makes it less fun for the other players around the table and *especially* less fun for the GM. He'll end up ignoring all of your Qualities just to keep the game going, and at that point you might as well have just spent a smart 35 points.

[Udoshi]

I get what you're saying, and I'm fine with it, but then it doesn't really seem fair to say... I didn't take dayjob with the BP, but it's in my background, so I want to use that 5k/month income to buy... just as it wouldn't really be cool to say, i didn't pay bp for being born rich, or being college educated, or having restricted gear, but it's in my background, so when i add in those bonus die I have...

I see the need for the BP system with qualities to balance things some, I just dont seem much reason to be restrictive with it, other than to say you can't pile on 100pts of negative qualities to max out all your skills or something, that much I understand

If you have an -actually cool-(Read: Not an excuse to blatantly min-max, no matter how dressed up it is) excuse and detailed backstory for your character - then ask your GM for permission. The worst they'll do is say no. But if they see something neat thats breaking the rules just a bit to do something Worthwhile(And more importantly, balanced), then they'll probably say yes if approached properly.

At the end of the day, dumpshock is just a bunch of guys on the internet with varying familiarity with the rules. We are not your gm(Unless you happen to be on a play-by-post here), and communicating things with your GM is #1 importantance in any game.

I've had ideas like this. The only thing you can do is say 'Hey! I've a sweet idea. Look at this', sell it too them well, and hope the person running your game isn't a Knee-Jerk-Rules-lawyering hobnobber who's instant and only reaction is 'This breaks the rules? NO.'

[Kovu Muphasa]

I just made my own up using Microsoft Work, a few of the PDFs off Drive through [For coppy paist] and they work well. I can go into as little detail as you want and take only 2 sides or go hog wild and have them 6-10 pages long.

[Ascalaphus]

I ended up designing my own character sheets too. Took longer than I expected though.

In the end, the only real solution seemed to be to put all the skills on one page, which is fills nearly completely.

[spongeclip]

Best character sheets for SR


http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=18709


sorry links in post are dead, just google wordman character sheet SR4, he didnt make a 4th sheet but someone updated it for 4th and I don't remember who it was

[lunavoco]

RE: Over 35 pt limit.

Your argument doesn't make perfect sense. The way you phrased it, by having a SIN you OBVIOUSLY must have a day job and a a corp that wants you. The one does not have to follow the other. My current character (the former Motoko knock off) has a sin, but isn't hunted because the corp thinks he's worthless. He doesn't have a dossier (sp?) on file for the same reason. They determined that I was not worth keeping when I was in grade school. Effectively, I've had no interactions with my "parent corp since then, and they like it that way. If i show up in their base, they might know it's me, but they really won't care.

Long and short, you can take any quality independently of the others AND have a back story that makes sense. If you're having problems jsutifying your slimed down choices, then post here about it. The forums are a GREAT area to get that kind of help.

RE: Sheets

Coincidentally, I finished a new set of sheets yesterday.

You can find them here. It has room for 33 skills and 12 qualities.

[lunavoco]

Forum error. Reply is in wrong thread.

[Fatum]

Your argument doesn't make perfect sense. The way you phrased it, by having a SIN you OBVIOUSLY must have a day job and a a corp that wants you. The one does not have to follow the other. My current character (the former Motoko knock off) has a sin, but isn't hunted because the corp thinks he's worthless. He doesn't have a dossier (sp?) on file for the same reason. They determined that I was not worth keeping when I was in grade school. Effectively, I've had no interactions with my "parent corp since then, and they like it that way. If i show up in their base, they might know it's me, but they really won't care.

Well, to be fair, having a SIN doesn't presuppose corporate affiliation whatsoever. You can be an ordinary SINner citizen, and there are jobless abound in UCAS. So yeah, I agree with your notion that you can take the qualities separately - that's why they are separate qualities to begin with.

[Glyph]

Some things to remember about qualities:

The qualities are far more specific than their general names - not everyone with a college education will have that positive quality; the character could have spent more time at frat parties, or could have gone into such a different field that he hardly even remembers his Western literature and comparative philosophy classes. Someone raised in Tir Tairngire might only have Sperethiel as a second language at rating: 4, instead of the Bilingual quality, although if you asked, that character would probably call himself bilingual. Someone who is a "natural athlete" might simply have physical Attributes of 4 or higher and the athletics group at 3 to reflect this, instead of having that quality.

Remember that your character sheet is only a snapshot of the character at this moment in time. He might have had a wise sensei who instructed him in the ancient arts of Shaolin kung fu, but if that person is still in a cave in China, and your character is in Seattle, then you don't need the Sensei quality. If you had a trust fund and lost it to your conniving cousin's manipulations, you don't need the Trust Fund quality.

An important thing to remember about the negative qualities, too, is that they are things that either restrict your free will, or can't be gotten rid of as easily as it seems they could be (unless you spend the Karma). I often don't take mental flaws that would fit my character, because I would rather roleplay it than have to make checks for things. If I play someone cowardly, I want to decide when he has a moment of courage. If I play someone who hates ghouls, I want to be the one to decide whether the cowering ghoul mother clutching her child will touch his heartstrings or not. For the second category, I also tend to like having things like that in my background, rather than as flaws. An enemy who is a flaw will be intractably opposed to the character, can't be reasoned with, and can't be gotten rid of - he will either survive anything short of a nuke, or have a twin brother waiting to continue where he left off. An enemy in your background, though, can be killed with a lucky shot, or turn into an ally, or move on to other things and leave the character alone. There is more flexibility, more of a chance of organic growth rather than a set role.

[Fatum]

I want to be the one to decide whether the cowering ghoul mother clutching her child will touch his heartstrings or not.

Aren't ghouls sterile?

[Mantis]

She could have had a kid before she became a ghoul. Kid hanging out with her mother would probably catch the virus sooner or later. Thus mother and child ghouls. Also I think you can have ghouls that procreate but not sure. I'm not going to wade through the various references to find out just yet either.
EDIT: PG 77 Runner's Companion. The black side bar says Ghouls can indeed reproduce sexually.

[Jhaiisiin]

I agree with some of the other posters here regarding qualities. Take the ones that you need the mechanical/meaningful help or hindrance from, and leave the rest to roleplaying. Definitely greater flexibility that way.

And regarding the updated Wordman sheets, no idea if the reference is to my or Nightwatchman's sheets, but mine are linked via my sig and reference their correct web home atm.

[Fatum]

She could have had a kid before she became a ghoul. Kid hanging out with her mother would probably catch the virus sooner or later. Thus mother and child ghouls. Also I think you can have ghouls that procreate but not sure. I'm not going to wade through the various references to find out just yet either.
EDIT: PG 77 Runner's Companion. The black side bar says Ghouls can indeed reproduce sexually.

Hmm, it just states they can pass the infection down the line - mayhaps it's for people who were infected while pregnant?
Otherwise, frankly, the whole deal looks grim and menacing.

[Daylen]

I don't remember the last time I printed a char sheet. I just use loose leaf paper.